§ 35. Mr. INSKIPasked the Prime Minister whether, as an earnest of the intention of Parliament to entrust the management of Irish affairs to the Irish people, he will consider the advisability of announcing that no deportations or arrests of persons in Ireland except under the ordinary law shall take place during 868 the further passage of the Government of Ireland Bill through Parliament?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI can give no such undertaking. The responsibility for the Government of Ireland rests upon His Majesty's Government, and our first duty is to protect the lives of Irish citizens, and we shall continue to take all the steps in our power to fulfil that duty.
§ Mr. INSKIPDoes the right hon. Gentleman think that, if this is not the time to begin to restore the ordinary law, this is the time to introduce a Home Rule Bill?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat is matter for argument.
§ Mr. DEVLINWill the right hon. Gentleman give us an assurance that when persons are arrested in Ireland they shall be at once brought to trial?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI wish it were possible to do so, but, so long as the present terror and intimidation exist, it is absolutely impossible to get the necessary evidence, and the hon. Gentleman knows what happened last week when there was a murder in the presence of several persons who took no part in it, and it was quite impossible to get any of them to give evidence.
§ Mr. DEVLINBut when persons are arrested, are they not entitled to have a trial, so that it may be known whether really innocent persons are dragged from their homes and sent to prisons in this country without any charge being made against them?
§ Major O'NEILLBefore my right hon. Gentleman answers that question, may I ask him whether he is satisfied that proper means are being taken by the Government to protect those who are having to carry out with the greatest difficulty and danger the authority of His Majesty's Government?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI have an answer later on this subject, and perhaps my hon. and gallant Gentleman will wait for that.
§ Mr. DEVLINWill the right hon. Gentleman please answer my question as to what opportunity is to be given to persons who may be innocent, as I believe many of them are, and who are arrested, taken from their homes, sent 869 to prisons in this country, and no charge is made against them, and no opportunity given them to defend themselves?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI have only to say, as I said before, that if we were confident that those who had evidence to give of the commission of crime, who witnessed it with their own eyes, came forward freely, as they do in every other country, to give evidence, then we could rest satisfied with the ordinary machinery of the law; but, under present conditions, it is quite impossible to do so, and we must take such measures as are essential, in our opinion, to safeguard the rights of innocent people.
§ Mr. MacVEAGHIs not the right hon. Gentleman aware that courts-martial are being held every day in the week in Ireland, and that there is nothing to prevent people being put on trial before courts-martial, at any rate; that courts of summary jurisdiction meet every day in Ireland, and judges go on circuit every week; and, having regard to that fact, will he tell us why those men are detained without trial, and is it not a fact that the process is of this kind: when there is any evidence, you put them on trial before a court-martial, and when there is no evidence, you intern them in Wormwood Scrubs?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThat is not the case. My hon. Friend knows as well as I do that the whole difficulty arises from the gross intimidation that goes on, which prevents people who, probably, themselves have not the least sympathy with these crimes, from coming forward as they would in any other country to give evidence against the criminals, and so long as that condition of things prevails we must resort to abnormal methods.
§ Mr. DEVLINMay I ask whether the more powerful the measures of suppression, the less successful the Government is in securing convictions, and Ireland is in a worse condition to-day—
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat matter can be raised in Debate to-day and to-morrow.