HC Deb 15 May 1919 vol 115 cc1754-6
45. Lieutenant-Colonel DALRYMPLE WHITE

asked the Prime Minister whether he can now give favourable consideration to the question of permitting individuals, and more especially men who have served in the Royal Navy and Army, to count towards pension their aggregate terms of service in all branches of His Majesty's Service?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (Mr. Chamberlain)

I understand the proposal to be that those who have served in the Navy and Army and are subsequently appointed to established positions in the Civil Service should have rights of pension in respect of their naval and military service not possessed by their less fortunate comrades who do not succeed in obtaining such employment in the Civil Service. There is no power to adopt this course under the existing law and I do not see my way to introduce legislation for the purpose.

Lieutenant-Colonel WHITE

Does not the present system put men who enter the Army and Navy and later transfer to the Post Office and other branches of the Civil Service at a great disadvantage compared with men who enter the Post Office direct and therefore act as a deterrent to recruiting?

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN

No, I cannot accept my hon. and gallant Friend's description of the case. His proposal would quite clearly place men who joined the established Civil Service from the Army and Navy in a much more fortunate position than those who did not obtain Civil Service posts after their military or naval service.

Colonel YATE

In what way would that happen? A man of eighteen enters the Service at the same age as a man of eighteen who enters the Post Office direct.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN

I have failed to make it clear. If of two men entering the Army and serving for the same time one goes to the established Civil Service and one is unable to obtain an established appointment and goes to outside employment the proposal in the question is that the one who obtains Civil Service employment should count his previous military service towards a Civil pension. That would put him in a more favourable position in regard to his Army service than the soldier who is not fortunate enough to obtain Civil Service employment.

Sir F. HALL

In view of the statement of the Secretary of State for War as to the number of recruits that are required, will he not take into consideration the suggestion now made, with a view to enlisting the sympathies of men who are desirous of entering the Army and Navy and then going into Civil Service employment?

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN

I cannot add anything to the answer I have given.

Colonel BURN

Is it not all State service, and should it not all count for the pension to which they are entitled?

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN

No, Sir. The State employs certain people on the terms that after their service, on a certain date, they are entitled to pension. It also employs other people on terms which do not include pension. That is true, both of the fighting Service and the Civil Service.