HC Deb 22 July 1919 vol 118 cc1194-6

It shall be the duty of a county council, in exercising the powers of Section sixteen of this Act, and of a borough, urban district, or parish council, in exercising the powers of Section nineteen, Sub-section (1), of this Act to give effect to the principles laid down in Section forty-nine of the principal Act, and for that purpose to carry out the provisions of the said Sections through any co-operative society of small holders or allotment holders which may be established in their area, and be approved by the Board of Agriculture for such purpose."—[Mr. Cautley]

Brought up, and read the first time.

Mr. CAUTLEY

I beg to move That the Clause be read a second time.

Mr. ROYCE

I beg to second the Motion.

Sir A. BOSCAWEN

I cannot accept this Clause, as I do not think it is necessary, but with regard to the question raised by it, I think I shall be able to satisfy my hon. Friends. Their object is that in the matter of making advances of capital to smallholders for the purpose of stocking their holdings or providing seed and fertilisers for allotment-holders, the council shall not act—it is laid down in the Bill that the council shall do it—if there is available a co-operative society which is able to do it. The Board of Agriculture is most anxious to promote the Agricultural Organisation Society, and assist it in every way. We attach the greatest value to co-operation. All we intend is that where there is not a co-operative society which is in a position to do it, the county councils shall do it. In the ease of small holders, we propose to make very considerable advances. The suggestion is, £l for £l. If a man is prepared to lay out £100, we will advance another £100 for the purpose of stocking his small holding. But in most cases that will have to be done by the banks. What we propose in the Bill is that the smallholder should open an account with the local branch of the bank and should be able to have an overdraft which should be guaranteed by the county council. He will then only pay interest on the actual amount of the over draft. Similarly, in the case of allotment-holders, we propose that the county councils shall borrow, and assist the allotment-holder in providing seeds and so forth. We think in most cases that will have to be done, but we agree that where it can be done by means of co-operative societies that is desirable. I propose, therefore, when we come to Clause 16, to move an Amendment to this effect: The powers conferred by this Section shall be exercisable by the council or the Board only where, in the opinion of the council or the Board, as the case may be, the facilities for obtaining advances from a society on a co-operative basis are inadequate. And similarly when we come to Clause 19, which deals with allotment-holders, I propose to move an Amendment on practically the same lines, to this effect: The powers conferred by the preceding Subsection shall be exercisable by a council only where in the opinion of the council the facilities for the purchase or hire of the articles therein referred to from a society on a co-operative basis are inadequate. If the House has followed me, my hon. Friends will see that we are quite prepared in the proper Clause—on Clause 16 as regards small holdings and on Clause 19 as regards allotments—to meet their views; but we must take general powers to enable the councils to make advances. In the matter of small holdings it is the usual case, because the number of credit co-operative societies is not large, at all events, at the present moment. We want to enable the council to make these advances, otherwise the men will not get the advances when they want them. I will move these Amendments later on in a form which will indicate to the councils, and we will also circularise the councils, that it is not intended that they should exercise these powers in cases where the co-operative societies can do it.

Captain FITZROY

I am sorry that the hon. Member does not see his way to accept this Amendment, because it is important in these days that we should encourage co-operation to the utmost of our powers. It seems to me that by his refusal to accept this Amendment he puts the small co-operative societies for allotment-holders and smallholders on a footing not as good as would be the case if the smallholders or allotment-holders were weekly tenants under a local authority. In these small rural districts some of the co-operative societies are very small. A small number of people have formed them selves into a society for providing allotments or small holdings, and they can only deal with very small consignments of goods, and cannot take advantage of the smaller prices which would be given to the large co-operative societies or the local authorities. The only means by which they can get the full advantage of trading on an equality with the large co-operative societies is by the county councils coming in and giving them all the advantages that they give to tenants of their own. The hon. Member is doing a wrong to these small co-operative societies in not accepting the Amendment.

Question put, and negatived.