CLAUSE 22.— (Recoupment of Losses Incurred in Exercise of Powers under Principal Act.)

HC Deb 22 July 1919 vol 118 cc1264-7

1. (1) At the end of the financial year ending on the thirty-first day of March in the year nineteen hundred and twenty and of each of the six succeeding years the Board shall pay to a council of a county the loss (it any) which may be shown to the satisfaction of the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries to have be on reasonably or necessarily incurred by the council during the financial year in the exercise of their powers under the principal Act otherwise than in relation to smallholdings of less than one acre.
   • Provided that, in calculating the amount of any loss incurred by a county council as aforesaid, there shall be included all sums paid by the council on account of loans obtained for the purpose of acquiring and adapting land for small holdings.
2. (2) The Board shall, on the passing of this Act, pay to a council of a county the loss (if any) which may be shown to the satisfaction of the Board to have been reasonably or necessarily incurred by the council in the exercise of their powers under the principal Act during the period 1265 from the first day of January, nineteen hundred and eight to the thirty-first day of March, nineteen hundred and nineteen.
   • Provided that, in calculating the amount of any loss incurred by a county council as aforesaid, there shall be included all sums paid by the council prior to the first day of April, nineteen hundred and nineteen, on account of loans obtained for tile purpose of acquiring and adapting land for small holdings.
3. (3) Until the thirty-first day of March, nineteen hundred and twenty-six, a council of a county shall not incur expenditure under Section forty-nine of the principal Act (which relates to co-operative societies), without the consent of the Board.
4. (4) Sub-section (4) of Section six and Section twenty-one of the principal Act, are hereby repealed.
5. (5)This Section shall apply to losses incurred by the council of a county borough in the exercise of their powers under the principal Act in relation to small holdings.

Amendments made:

In Sub-section (1), leave out the words Provided that, in calculating the amount of any loss incurred by a county council as aforesaid, there shall be included all sums paid by the council on account of loans obtained for the purpose of acquiring and adapting land for small holdings. In Sub-section (2), leave out the words Provided that, in calculating the amount of any loss incurred by a county council as afore-said, there shall be included all sums paid by the council prior to the first day of April, nineteen hundred and nineteen, on account of loans obtained for the purpose of acquiring and adapting land for small holdings. Insert, as a new Sub-section (3) In calculating for the purposes of this Section the amount of any loss incurred by a council, there shall be included all sums paid by the council by way of interest, or sinking fund, or other loan charges on account of loans obtained for the purpose of acquiring and adapting land for small holdings, and the amount of the loss shall be determined under and in accordance with regulations made by the Board with the approval of the Treasury."— [sir A. Boscawen].

Sir F. BLAKE

I beg to move, in Subsection (4), to leave out the words "are hereby repealed," and to insert instead thereof the words shall cease to have effect during the period ending on the thirty-first day of March, nineteen hundred and twenty-six. The object of that is very obvious. The idea is that, instead of repealing these useful Sections, useful, at all events, and helpful to county councils, they should be in abeyance only, and should be able to be revived at the end of the septennial period. The county councils have recognised that they cannot expect to have the assistance and benefit that they get from these Sections during the period ending on the 31st March, 1926, because the Board pay only the deficits during that time; but we feel that it is by no means certain what the position of land is going to be at the end of the Septennial period. Prices may not have' fallen to such an extent as to enable county councils to purchase and to adapt and let land to smallholders at a rent which, while it is fair to the smallholders, will guard the council against loss. The powers contained in Sub-section (4) of Section 6 of the principal Act are not compulsory powers. It is not a duty upon the Board to make good losses; it is a power that they have to assist meritorious councils, who have done their best under difficult circumstances, who have acquired land sometimes under compulsion, very often have been told that they ought to acquire it because smallholders require land in their county, and the Board encourages them to do so by saying, "Well, you must make the best of it. You must find the best tenant you can, and you must see that the land is cultivated to the best possible advantage, and when it is all over, if there is a loss, we will come to your assistance and make it good." The object of the Amendment, so far as this Clause is concerned, is to enable the Board to do what it has done in the past at the end of the Septennial period to revive its benevolence on behalf of the county councils. Clause 21 enables the Board to pay the costs of the acquisition of land. I do not know why the county councils should be in any worse position at the close of the Septennial period than they have hitherto been. As things are it would certainly be very comforting to county councils if the hon. and gallant Gentleman could see his way to give us a little encouragement by saying that while it is quite right that these powers should be in abeyance for the period, that they could be possibly revived, at the goodwill of the Board, if the county council so desired.

Mr. RAFFAN

I beg to second the Amendment.

Sir A. BOSCAWEN

With the best will in the world I cannot possibly accept this Amendment. It would entirely upset the whole bargain on which this Bill is based, which is this: that for the seven-year period we shall pay the deficit every year of the running of these small holdings, while at the end of the seventh year we write down the capital amount to the then value of the small holdings, and hand them over to the county councils on a self-supporting basis. That is an exceedingly good bargain for the county councils. A better bargain could not possibly be made. My hon. Friend wants us at the end of the seven years to revive our benevolence, as he say6. What does that mean? He is asking us to pay any loss the county councils ultimately incur. That would be putting a premium on very bad management by the county councils. We give them the small holdings on a self-supporting basic. If after that they make a loss it is entirely their own fault. Not only would this Amendment involve us in paying half the losses, but in the case of new acquisitions we should be required to pay the whole of the expenses as we do now.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.