HC Deb 08 December 1919 vol 122 cc1089-92

The following Section shall be substituted for Section sixty-six of the principal Act: In any action founded on tort commenced in the High Court the defendant may, on an affidavit made by himself or by any person on his behalf showing that the plaintiff has no visible means of paying the costs of the defendant should a verdict not be found for the plaintiff, apply to the Court or a judge for an Order to transfer the action to a County Court; and thereupon the Court or judge, unless the plaintiff satisfies the Court or judge that he has such means, may, if the Court or judge having regard to all the circumstances of the case thinks fit so to do, make an Order that unless the plaintiff within a time to be limited in the Order gives security for the defendant's costs to the satisfaction of the Court or a judge the action shall be transferred to such County Court to be named in the Order as the Court or judge maw deem the most convenient to the parties.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

Captain W. BENN

May I ask the Attorney-General if he really intends to take the whole of the Committee stage, with twenty-seven Clauses, at this hour of the night, having got the Second Reading?

Sir G. HEWART

Certainly. I should be glad to do so, because it is really, though it contains much detail, a non-controversial measure. It has passed through all its stages in the House of Lords; it has been for a long time discussed by Committees; and it comes to this House really as a non-contentious measure.

Captain BENN

Of course, I should not dream of dividing the House. We are in a perfectly helpless condition, but I must point out to the Committee that here is a Bill of the very greatest importance, which was printed this morning.

Sir G. HEWART

No; on the 2nd December.

Captain BENN

Printed in this House—

Sir G. HEWART

Printed on 2nd December.

Captain BENN

I am informed it was delivered this morning. If the- Government insists on having it, we can do no more than point out to the Committee what has happened. It is not to us that disrespect is shown, but to hon. Members of the Committee, in asking them to take a measure of twenty-seven Clauses at twenty to one in the morning, without their being given any opportunity of learning the contents of the Bill.

Sir G. HEWART

I am certainly not insisting—far from it; I am asking.

Captain BENN

You are in a position to insist.

Sir G. HEWART

No; I am merely asking. I should like to know what is the ingredient in the Bill to which the hon. and gallant Member objects. He does not indicate it, nor can one conjecture it. So far as I know, there is nothing in the Bill that is opposed by anybody who is acquainted with the subject-matter of the Bill. On the contrary, the Law Society, representing the solicitors, have not only approved the Bill, but they have to no small extent even suggested it. Judges of the High Court approve it—they have, by a Committee, recommended it—and it has been framed with the concurrence and at the suggestion of some of the ablest of the County Court judges.

Major BARNES

I agree with the hon. and gallant Member (Captain Benn) in his expression of feeling. My own experience in regard to this Bill is that it came to me this morning, with the Votes and Proceedings and two or three other Bills. I certainly think we can only take the statement of the Attorney-General that there is nothing in it. One would have liked to have had some little information with regard to the measure, which must be of very considerable importance. A great number of people in this country have to go through the County Courts, and with a Bill containing so many Clauses, which seem of some importance, it would be interesting to know something about it before we pass the Committee stage.

Lieut.-Colonel GUINNESS

I think we ought to protest against this proceeding on the part of the Government, because it seems to be forgotten that hon. Members have no opportunity of showing their opposition to the details of the Bill until after the Second Reading. No one can hand in Amendments until a Bill has been read a second time, and there may be many Members who have not seen that the Bill was down for Second Reading, but who have many points of substance to make, and cannot do so. If this Bill is allowed to pass to-night, I hope it will not be a precedent in future for more than one stage to be taken on a given date.

Sir G. HEWART

Might I make an appeal to my hon. and gallant Friend, who, indeed, never raises an objection without good reason? It is quite true that the Bill comes on at a late hour, but I am sure he will agree that that is not my fault. It is a Bill which, after long examination and discussion by an expert Committee, and after having received the cordial approval of that Committee, has been passed through all its stages in another place, upon the Motion of the Lord Chancellor. There is no question of controversy, so far as I am aware, and when my hon. and gallant Friend says that if Members had had a longer opportunity of considering the measure they might perhaps have moved Amendments, I say frankly that I cannot conceive on what Clause of the Bill it is suggested that those Amendments might have been moved. I quite agree that the procedure is not normal, but neither is this stage of the Session normal. It is of great importance that before we begin a new legal year the Bill should be passed into law. If there were any point of substance on which it appeared that my hon. and gallant Friend would be tempted to move an Amendment, I would certainly say, Let us postpone this stage. But I cannot imagine, nor does he at all suggest, what point of substance is likely to occur to him after the Bill has run, as we know that it has run, the gauntlet of High Court judges, County Court. judges, solicitors, and many other competent critics. I ask, therefore, that there may be no further delay.

Question put, and agreed to.

Clauses 3 to 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.