§ Mr. ALDEN(by Private Notice) asked the Minister of Munitions whether he is aware that the firm of Harding, Wace, and Creischere. Lea Side Works, Pickets Lock, Lower Edmonton, have paid no wages to their employés for the last two weeks; that these employés are dependent upon their weekly earnings for the necessities of life; that they have been given notice to terminate their employment by Saturday, the 27th; whether this firm in 1117 question is owed£12,000 by his Department; and whether, in view of the fact that 120 workpeople are concerned, he proposes to take any steps to secure, first, that they are paid the wages due to them, and, secondly, that they are not turned adrift to find other employment?
§ Sir W. EVANSThe Ministry had contracts with this firm which had terminated before these difficulties arose. The company has claimed£12,000 for work done under contracts, but the Ministry has a claim against the company for materials issued in excess of this figure. In view of the Ministry's claim and the fact that no work is now being done for the Ministry, payment of any further sum from Ministry funds is impossible until the firm account for the materials they have received. I am aware of the nonpayment of wages, but regret that it is a matter as between the firm and their employés in which I am unable to intervene.
§ Mr. ALDENAm I to understand that, while the Ministry of Munitions quarrel with this firm, these people are to be kept without their money; and is that the sort of treatment that ought to be meted out to workpeople who are manufacturing munitions?
§ Sir W. EVANSThe hon. Member must understand that the Ministry of Munitions cannot give away public funds. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"] The workpeople have a claim against this firm, and, as I understand there are several partners in the firm, it is their duty to pay their own workpeople.
§ Captain ALBERT SMITHWould it not be possible to allow the indebtedness of the firm to be increased to the extent of allowing it to pay the wages?
§ Sir W. EVANSIt means several hundreds of pounds—it runs into nearly £2,000.
§ Sir W. EVANSWell, £1,200; or perhaps, as the period is longer than suggested, it will be something between£1,000 and£2,000.
§ Sir E. CARSONHave steps been taken to test the liability of the Ministry of Munitions to this firm, and when will a decision be come to?
§ Sir W. EVANSSteps have been taken, and the accounts have been gone into. The result is as I have stated to the House. There is a claim by the firm for£12,000 and a counter-claim by the Ministry exceeding that sum. As a result of taking up the accounts—
§ Sir E. CARSONBy whom?
§ Sir W. EVANSBy the Ministry of Munitions—I cannot see my way, in the circumstances, to authorise the payment.
§ Mr. CROOKSIs this a controlled establishment]
§ Sir W. EVANSYes.
§ Mr. CROOKSThen you are liable.
§ Sir W. EVANSI think probably the firm is a controlled firm, but I am not sure. We have no contracts at present with this firm.
§ Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKEAre we to understand that the Ministry of Munitions allowed this firm to go into debt to the extent of£12,000 without in any way making inquiries as to whether they were able to pay it?
§ Sir W. EVANSThe hon. Member is not to understand that. He should understand that the£12,000 is alleged by the firm to be on the other side of the account.
§ Mr. G. TERRELLWhen was this claim made by the firm for the£12,000, and the counter-claim for material by the Ministry of Munitions?
§ Sir W. EVANSThe matter has been investigated during the past two or three weeks, and the result of the claim and counter-claim appeared on the taking of the accounts.
§ Mr. ALDENWill the Ministry of Munitions make immediate inquiry into the matter with a view to ascertaining—by independent audit, if necessary—whether or not the firm are entitled to the money they claim, and, if so, will this£12,000 be paid to the workpeople who at the present time are without the necessaries of life?
§ Sir W. EVANSThe accounts have been inquired into, as I said, during the past two or three weeks by highly-skilled chartered accountants who are temporarily on the staff of the Ministry of Munitions, and I am bound to accept the result of their inquiries.