HC Deb 15 April 1918 vol 105 cc20-2
27. Sir J. D. REES

asked the Minister of National Service what is the practical effect of his Order on the 9th instant upon the provision of the minimum of labour required for carrying on the lace trade in its various branches and for food distribution?

Mr. BECK

As regards the lace trade (which was not included in the List of Certified Occupations), the practical effect of the Order is to cancel all tribunal exemptions granted on occupational grounds to (i.) foremen and overlookers under thirty-eight years of age in Grade I. or category A, and (ii.) all other classes of workmen under forty-three years of age in Grade I. or category A, with the exception of enginemen, boiler firemen, and maintenance and repairing staffs mentioned in Part III. of the Schedule to the Order in. whose case much lower age limits have been imposed.

As regards food distribution, the only trades affected are the baking trade, the wholesale meat trade, and the wholesale fish trade, and the effect of the Order is to raise slightly the ages mentioned in the List of Certified Occupations, dated June, 1917. The approval of the Ministry of Food was obtained before the Order was made.

Mr. JOYNSON-HICKS

(by Private Notice) asked the Minister of National Service what steps the Government propose to take to ensure that no men over the present military age are taken whose places in the Army could be filled by younger men of the present military age?

The MINISTER Of NATIONAL SERVICE (Sir Auckland Geddes)

As far as men of the present military age are protected from military service by occupational exemptions or certificates of protection, whether granted by Government Departments or otherwise, with which the Minister of National Service is empowered to deal, I can assure the hon. Member that I am using those powers to the fullest extent to ensure that no men within the present limits of military age who are fit for service in the Army are retained in civil life, unless they are absolutely irreplaceable in their present position, and their retention is necessary from the point of view of the prosecution of the War.

And I can assure the hon. Member that I would not accept the responsibility for administering an Act raising the military age unless the Government were determined to enforce thoroughly the principle that no men over the present military age should be taken for service, if the needs of the Army can be met by men of the present military age who, consistently with the maintenance of our war effort, can be withdrawn from civil life. In saying this I am speaking not only for myself, but for all my colleagues in the Government, both in relation to their own Departments and to the industries for the interests of which they are responsible.

Mr. JOYNSON-HICKS

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, in consequence of that very satisfactory statement, he will consider the opening of a register on which men of older military age might place their names as being willing to take the places in Government and other Departments of the younger men who may be combed out?

Mr. PRINGLE

Is the fixing of the clean cut at the age of twenty-five in the Civil Service consistent with that answer?

Sir A. GEDDES

With regard to the point raised by the hon. Member for Brentford (Mr. Joynson-Hicks), there is already a business and professional register which is under the control of and is administered by the Ministry of Labour, and which I hope will be enormously extended and become much more useful. I do not think it would help to add to the number of registers existing. As regards the question of the hon. Member for North-West Lanark (Mr. Pringle), when that question was under discussion in Committee on the Military Service Bill the other day, I said that though the age of twenty-five was a clean cut, that does not mean that men over that age are not being released as rapidly as possible from the Civil Service. At the age of twenty-five, or almost immediately past it, we begin to enter the region where Civil servants are really indispensable from the point of view of war effort—some Civil servants are absolutely indispensable from the point of view of war effort—and, therefore, it is not intended to enforce the clean cut at present above that ago, although a very large number of Civil servants have already been released, not only up to thirty, but even above that age. At present I know that certain officers are considering the desirability of releasing all the Civil servants who are fit for general service up to the age of forty-three. There will, however, necessarily, throughout the Civil Service as a whole, be exceptions to any such high age, and twenty-five is taken as the age of the clean cut.

Mr. LOUGH

Where does the limit exist with which the right hon. Gentleman is not permitted to deal with regard to exemptions granted by Government Departments?

Sir A. GEDDES

There is no limit, so far as exemptions granted by Government Departments are concerned, under the powers of the Military Service Act, 1918. That is to say, there is no statutory limit, but there is a practical limit, imposed by the force of circumstances, that certain individuals protected by Government Departments cannot possibly be released. I refer to munition work.

Sir F. HALL

Is there any statutory exemption for Members of Parliament of military age?