§ Mr. GINNELLI desire to ask your ruling, Mr. Speaker, on a matter of some importance to the House as well as to myself: whether it is in order for certain Members of the House to abuse the opportunities membership offers them, as they did last Friday, by conspiring to secure a quorum to listen to prearranged party statements on an Irish subject of general importance, and as soon as these statements had been made by English Members, Scottish Members, and a Welsh Member, to prevent an Independent Irish Member from making a statement on the same subject by inducing the quorum they had secured for a former purpose to withdraw and thus defeat the latter purpose; if such conspiracy and conduct be not technically out of order, whether, having regard to its unfairness and to the respect and confidence which Parliament ought to inspire, it is in order for the occupant of the Chair to connive at this unconcealed conspiracy against freedom of debate by disregarding the complaints of Members that they had themselves been thus improperly solicited to join the conspiracy, and by disregarding the fact brought to his notice that more than a quorum of hon. Members stood still at both doors of this Chamber, preventing colleagues coming in, and were jeering at the victims of their shabby trick; and in view of the international attention now concentrated on the conduct of this mother, and model, of Parliaments in denying to a nation more ancient than itself its constitutional right of a sovereign State, 1436 whether you will give a ruling as to the future admissibility or otherwise of the conduct described?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe question of the hon. Member seems rather like a controversial statement.
§ Mr. GINNELLNo.
§ 4.0 P.M
§ Mr. SPEAKEROr so it appears to me. I can only say that I have no power or authority over Members outside the House. I cannot compel them to come in if they do not choose so to do. The matter is entirely one for themselves. They may remain within the doors or they may go away when speeches are being delivered. As to the question in relation to the action of the Deputy-Speaker, I must altogether decline to pronounce judgment upon it. The Deputy-Speaker was in charge of the House on Friday, and if the hon. Gentleman is dissatisfied and objects to his ruling, or rulings, there are proper means that he can take to deal with the matter.
§ Mr. GINNELLMay I ask whether it is your ruling that Members can crowd at that door and the other door and prevent colleagues from entering this Chamber?
§ Mr. SPEAKERIf they are within sight of the Chair, of course they are counted. If they are in the door, they are within sight of the Chair, and would naturally be counted. If they are outside, they cannot be seen and cannot be counted.
§ Mr. GINNELLThen disorder is allowed outside the door?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThere is no suggestion of disorder.
Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTIs it not the case that if the hon. Member himself had called a Count during the earlier proceedings while there was a quorum present, that Count would have been valid for some considerable time afterwards, and he would therefore have had a quorum for his own remarks?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat is so.
§ Mr. LYNCHUp to a certain degree you do officially or semi-officially recognise the party system; that is to say, in calling men on the Front Bench before those on the Back Benches. Therefore, would it not be consistent to recognise the party system in this particular, to discourage as far as you could any organised attempts, 1437 due to the discipline of the party, to prevent men coming in to hear another Member?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe Chair, whether I or my Deputy was in it, could take no part in organising a Count. The only duty of the Chair, when attention is called to the absence of a quorum, is to allow two minutes to elapse, and then see whether a quorum is in sight of the Chair.
§ Mr. GINNELLMay I ask a final question—whether you have considered the point that, while you rule inside the two doors of this Chamber, the party whips rule outside"
§ Mr. SPEAKERI do not know who rules outside: I have quite enough to do to rule here.