HC Deb 20 June 1916 vol 83 cc11-7
8. Mr. GINNELL

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether Mr. Darrell Figgis, the author, is still in prison in solitary confinement in this country; at whose instance and on what grounds he was arrested, he having publicly severed his connection with the Volunteers in September, 1914, having had no connection since with them or with anything leading to the insurrection, and his part of Ireland having kept perfectly quiet; on what grounds after having, in the presence of an officer, instructed solicitor and counsel to move for either charge or release, he was, with only five minutes' notice, deported; can he specify the law under which this untried and uncharged prisoner has been subjected in England to solitary confinement and denied the right of legal consultation promised in this House; whether he will be given sufficient notice of the time and place of trial to enable him to prepare his defence; and, if no charge can be made against him, when he will be released and what amends will be made to him?

Mr. TENNANT

I understand that Mr. Darrell Figgis has not been released, and that an order for his internment under Regulation 14B, Defence of the Realm Regulations has been applied for. The case has been very carefully gone into, and the military authorities have satisfied themselves that Mr. Figgis's ease came within Regulation J4u. The question of his release now' rests with the Advisory Committee. It was considered desirable that Mr. Figgis should be kept separate from the rank and file whilst in military-custody.

Mr. GINNELL

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether Mr. Figgis will be allowed the assistance of counsel before the Advisory Committee, and can he also say whether it is a fact that Mr. Figgis is now lying ill at Stafford?

Mr. TENNANT

I am afraid I am not sufficiently acquainted with the facts to be able to inform the hon. Member whether he has been correctly informed or not. I cannot give him an answer offhand.

Mr. T. M. HEALY

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when the Advisory Committee is going to meet; whether the suggestion which was thrown out, I understand, by the Prime Minister that an Irish judge was to be associated therewith has been carried out, and, if so, what is the name of the judge?

The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. Herbert Samuel)

Mr. Justice Pym has consented to serve as a member of that committee, which will commence its sittings this week.

Mr. BYRNE

May I ask by whose instructions untried Irish prisoners are placed in solitary confinement?

Mr. SAMUEL

I do not think it is the case that they have been in solitary confinement—

Mr. HEALY

Yes, it is.

Mr. SAMUEL

—when in military custody. They have been confined as ordinary prisoners until arrangements can be made for their internment. They are now being transferred to internment camps as rapidly as possible.

Mr. HEALY

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that some of these prisoners are not only kept in solitary confinement—I will give him the name of Mr. Sweeney at Wakefield—where they are absolutely ill, and one is threatened with insanity in consequence?

Mr. SAMUEL

They are in military custody, but I do not think they are in solitary confinement.

Mr. HEALY

I have a letter from Mr. Sweeney's wife saying so, and that he is threatened with insanity in consequence.

10. Mr. GINNELL

asked the Under-Secretary for War on whose information he denied that Irish political prisoners had boon subjected to the indignity of having their finger-prints taken, like ordinary criminals, in Richmond Barracks and the other places of detention in Dublin, in view of the protests signed by numerous prisoners against that compulsory treatment; whether that is usual treatment in military prisons; and whether in those cases in Dublin it was superintended by the military authorities or by Mr. Max Green?

Mr. TENNANT

Owing to difficulty of identification, finger-prints were taken of men of the first batches of prisoners who were interned at Richmond Barracks. It was subsequently found that this was no longer necessary, and the practice was discontinued. The power to deal in this way with persons arrested under the Defence of the Realm Regulations is contained, in Regulation 55 of those Regulations. The finger-prints were taken under the supervision of the military authorities.

11. Mr. GINNELL

asked how many men, how many boys under eighteen years of age, and how many women are still in prison untried in connection with the Irish insurrection; and when they will be either tried or released?

Mr. TENNANT

The list of persons sent to England and also of those released from custody are always published in the Irish Press, and the means of arriving at the totals are therefore at the disposal of the hon. Member. All women have been released except five, against whom internment orders have been issued. I cannot give the number of youths under eighteen, but I understand that each youth will have his case considered by the Advisory Committee without delay. I may add that the hon. Member for Dublin (Mr. Byrne) has given me notice of a question which, I assume, applies to the same persons against whom internment orders have been made.

Mr. BYRNE

In the case of the five ladies who were deported last night, who do not know what they are being deported for, and against whom no charge has been made, will the right hon. Gentleman let them know the charge against them and give them an opportunity of defending themselves?

Mr. TENNANT

I understand that they have all had the charge communicated to them with the internment order.

Mr. GINNELL

How does the right hon. Gentleman reconcile the deportation of these five young ladies with the promise made in this House that no more women would be deported?

Mr. LYNCH

Will the right hon. Gentleman ascertain how many boys under eighteen years of age are in prison, and will he consider the advisability of releasing these boys?

Mr. TENNANT

Of course, the advisability of releasing all these boys is being considered.

Mr. GINNELL

How does the right hon. Gentleman reconcile the deportment of these five young ladies with the promise that he made in this House that no more women would be deported?

Mr. TENNANT

I do not believe that I ever said anything of the kind. What I think I said was that no more would be deported without a very careful examination of the allegations made against them.

Mr. GINNELL

In view of the fact that these five young ladies have been in prison in Dublin for six weeks, and that no investigation has taken place during that time, why have they been deported from the place where they should be tried?

Mr. TENNANT

The answer is that the investigation has taken place and that so much has been discovered as to render it necessary to intern them.

Mr. HEALY

In this matter has not the military overridden the civil power?

Mr. TENNANT

My hon. and learned Friend is quite under a misapprehension.

Mr. HEALY

As I understand the right hon. Gentleman gave a distinct pledge in this House that these young ladies would not be deported, and that has been broken by the military.

Mr. TENNANT

I must contradict the idea which prevails in my hon. and learned Friend's mind. No such promise was made.

Mr. GINNELL

In order not to be returning to this subject again, how does the right hon. Gentleman account for the fact that two of these young ladies were absent from Dublin during the entire week of these disturbances, one in Cork and the other in Wexford?

Mr. SPEAKER

There is nothing about these five young ladies in the question. If the hon. Gentleman will kindly hand in notice of his question it will be answered.

30. Mr. GINNELL

asked the Prime Minister the alleged offence for which Professor Eoin MacNeill has been sentenced to penal servitude for life; and whether, so long as undergoing that punishment, he will be allowed to pursue his Gaelic studies and writings having no relation to current affairs?

The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Asquith)

Twelve charges were made against Professor MacNeill, and he was found guilty of all of them. Eight were charges of attempting to cause disaffection among the civil population in Ireland and four were of acting in a way likely to prejudice recruiting. With regard to the second part of the question, this matter is one which must be left to the discretion of the prison authorities.

Mr. GRAHAM

Can the right hon. Gentleman say if the offence committed by Professor MacNeill was not before the occurrence in Dublin, and at a time when the organisation to which he was attached was legal?

The PRIME MINISTER

I am not aware of that.

Mr. LYNCH

Has the right hon. Gentleman ascertained that the manner in which this question has been handled has prejudiced recruiting in Ireland?

Mr. GINNELL

(by Private Notice) asked the Prime Minister, having regard to the credit claimed for the dietary treatment of insurrectionary prisoners on the occasion of his visit to Richmond Barracks, Dublin, will he say why that scale has been substantially departed from in all the places in which those prisoners are now detained; those men being untried and detained against their will, by what rule or principle is the food given them in all those places so inferior in quality and insufficient in quantity that they would starve but for the additional food sent in by friends; and, if unwilling to order them a sufficiency of wholesome food for the maintenance of health, whether he will immediately order them at least the same dietary scale set up on the occasion of his visit to Richmond Barracks?

Mr. TENNANT

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has asked me to answer this question. The statements of the hon. Member are not in accordance with the facts. The dietary treatment granted to these prisoners is the same as that granted to prisoners of war. It is considered wholesome and sufficient for the maintenance of health.

Mr. GINNELL

The right hon. Gentleman has not answered the point of the question—whether these prisoners will be given the treatment that was given to them at the time the Prime Minister visited the Richmond Barracks in Dublin?

Mr. TENNANT

As I have indicated that the statements of the hon. Gentleman are not in accordance with the facts, I assume that the dietary has not been departed from that was given at the time of: the Prime Minister's visit.

Mr. GINNELL

Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to revert to that dietary if I send him a copy of it?

Mr. TENNANT

That would not be a very sufficient reason. I will undertake that if the scale of dietary is so insufficient in quantity or inferior in quality that the prisoners would starve but for the additional food sent in by their friends—which, as I have said, is not in accordance with the facts—and if I find I have been misinformed, I will see that the matter is put right.

Mr. HEALY

Will the right hon. Gentleman extend to these prisoners the rights that prisoners of war have, of association, and see that none is kept in solitary confinement?

Mr. TENNANT

I must ask for notice of that question.

Mr. GRAHAM

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these prisoners in Kilmainham are compelled to lie upon the floor without mattresses?

Mr. TENNANT

I was not aware of that.

Mr. OUTHWAITE

Is there any control over the acts of the military, whether in regard to conscientious objectors or these prisoners?