HC Deb 10 August 1916 vol 85 cc1375-8

The Charity Commissioners may, subject to the approval of the Secretary of State, make regulations—

  1. (a) prescribing the forms for applications under this Act and the particulars to be contained therein;
  2. (b) prescribing the form of the registers to be kept under this Act and the particulars to be entered therein;
  3. (c) providing for the inspection of registers kept under this Act, and the making and the furnishing and certification, of copies thereof and extracts therefrom;
  4. (d)prescribing the fee (not exceeding ten shillings) to be paid on registration, and the fees for inspecting, and for making or obtaining copies of, and extracts from, registers;
  5. (e)requiring notification to the registration authority of any changes requiring alterations in the particulars entered in the register;
  6. (f)generally for carrying this Act into effect.

Amendment made: In paragraph (b), after the word "registers" ["registers to be kept"], insert the words "and lists."— [Mr. Brace.]

Sir E. CORNWALL

I beg to move, in paragraph (d), to leave our, the words "fee (not exceeding ten shillings)," and insert instead therof the words "annual fee as in the opinion of the Charity Commissioners will be sufficient to cover the expenses of the registration authority under this Act."

This is an Amendment which the London County Council would like to have in the Bill, and they think the expenses in regard to the Bill should not be a local expense. It is merely a financial matter between the county council and those carrying out the provisions of the Act. There is another point I should like the hon. Gentleman to consider, and that is whether it is not advisable, in the interests of the Bill itself, or in the interests of the Act when it comes into force, that these organisations should come to an end if they cease to be operative. If it is one payment of 10s., as is provided under the Bill, they will remain on the books of the authority, but if they had to pay an annual fee, it might be a small sum, or whatever the sum might be, to the Charity Commissioners, and they failed to pay it, then their society would be considered at an end. It might be an advantage to the responsible authorities administering the Act to know when any of these charities had ceased to operate any longer, so that they would not be further troubled. I understand that my hon. Friend does not wish the Amendment to go into the Bill, but I should like him to consider between now and the final passage of the measure through another place, whether there is not some point in what I have mentioned, that where it does not pay the annual fee, the charity shall cease to bother anybody or to be taken into account at all.

Mr. BRACE

If I accepted the Amendment it would put the Commissioners under the obligation of finding out whether there had been any charge in regard to these charities. I hope the figure of 10s. will not be taken as the cost; it ought not to cost 10s. in any case. We think that we have drafted the Bill fairly, and that it properly meets the case. As to the payment of an annual fee, I would call attention to the fact that the Bill is for the duration of the War, and if the present War ended at the end of six months the operation of the Act would come to an end, and the charities would cease. There is no necessity to put in an annual fees and under the circumstances I hope my hon. Friend will withdraw the Amendment.

Sir E. CORNWALL

I will withdraw the Amendment, but I doubt whether the war charities will end with the War. There will be many disabled men who will require attention, and these war charities will continue after the War. However, I do not wish to press my Amendment, and beg leave to withdraw it.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. BRACE

I beg to move, in paragraph (d) to leave out the words "inspecting, and for" ["fees for inspecting, and for making"].

Mr. PENNEFATHER

That does not quite cover the Amendment which I drafted for the registers to be open to public inspection daily. The hon. Gentle-, man's Amendments makes inspection free, but does not in any way provide that the registers shall be open to inspection daily. I should like to have the Amendment considered between now and the Report stage.

Mr. BRACE

I hope the hon. Gentleman will not press his proposal that the register should be open to inspection daily, for it would make matters very inconvenient. It is open to anyone, without fee, to go and see the registers, but if people were every day to inspect the register, how could the registration authorities be expected to do their work? I hope that the Amendment will not be pressed.

Mr. PENNEFATHER

I am very sorry I am not able to accept the suggestion of the hon. Gentleman. He suggests that the registration authorities could not carry on their work if the register were open to daily inspection. I hardly think that is so. May I point out that a person is liable to three months' imprisonment with hard labour, or a fine of £100, if he collects for an unregistered charity or does certain things for another charity, and it would be very hard on that man to go to the office of the registration authority and find that he was not allowed access to the register. I do not want to press the hon. Member to-night, but I would ask him between now and the Report stage to consider the question.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendment made: In paragraph (d), after the word "registers" ["extracts from registers"], insert the words "and lists."—[Mr. Brace]

Question, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.