CLAUSE 3.—(Conditions to be Complied with by Begistered Charities.) (Hansard, 10 August 1916)

§ Mr. RAWLINSON
I beg to move, in paragraph (ii), after the word "kept," to insert the words "and such accounts shall include the total receipts and the total expenditure of any collection, bazaar, sale, entertainment, or exhibition held with the approval of the governing body of the charity."
The object of this Amendment is this: As the Bill stands there is control by the central charity which may be registered, possibly in London, but there is no control over the local people who collect the money which maybe collected, either in the streets or at a bazaar or a sale; and so on. All you require by the Rill is that the central charity shall approve of the sale or bazaar being carried on. I am proposing that the accounts of-the central charity shall include, not merely such accounts as the local people send them, possibly £5 being forwarded when £100 was collected, £95 going in expenses, but shall include both sides of the account. Everybody will agree that this is not an unfair Amendment, and will be of great use in avoiding maladministration, and in certain cases avoiding fraud.

§ Mr. BRACE
The hon. and learned Member has given much attention to this phase of the Bill, and he has put down an Amendment in language which I can accept, and an Amendment which, I think, will be useful and helpful. It is the desire of the promoters of this Bill, and I am certain of the House altogether, that a check shall be kept upon any attempt to use the finances of the nation at a time of war either through the medium of bazaars or entertainments or anything of that character to raise more money for the promoters of the entertainment than for the charity on behalf of which it is supposed to be organised. It is because I believe that the Amendment standing in the name of the hon. and learned Member 1373 will do something to effect this object that I have great pleasure in accepting it.

§ Mr. A. WILLIAMS
I beg to move, in paragraph (ii.), after the word "Act," to insert the words "by some person or persons approved by the registration authority."
The Bill, as drawn, provides that the accounts shall be audited, but it says nothing as to who is to audit the accounts. Everyone would be willing to have his accounts audited if only he were allowed to choose his own auditor. My suggestion is that the registration authority should be instructed to approve of the auditor, so that the accounts could not be audited unless by some person or persons who are approved for the purpose, though not necessarily members of any particular society.

§ Mr. BRACE
I accept the Amendment.

§ Mr. PENNEFATHER
I beg to move, in paragraph (iii.), to leave out the words "collected by or on behalf of," and to insert instead thereof the words "received by."
This is merely a drafting Amendment, to which there is no objection.

§ Mr. RAWLINSON
I beg to move, after the word "bank," to insert the words "or banks."

§ Mr. ANDERSON
I beg to move to omit the words "Provided that the registration authority may, subject to any regulations made by the Charity Commissioners under this Act, exempt from the first of the said conditions any charity or charities of any class or description."
I think that these words are altogether too wide. I hope that the Under-Secretary will accept this Amendment. It would only mean that all charities would be placed on the same footing and that there would be no unfair differentiation between one and another. If there is some specially large public organisation, like the Statutory Committee, that I think could easily be met by the name itself being inserted in the Bill or in the Regulations, as the case might be. But, apart from that, I think the fewer exceptions the better. I think that the conditions are 1374 very moderate and very reasonable. I do not see any reason why every bonâ-fide charity should not be prepared to submit to so reasonable a measure of control.

§ Mr. BRACE
I had a very strong case put to me on the part of a newspaper owner, a perfectly bonâ-fide legitimate case, in which it was thought that the keeping of minutes, and so on, would be a serious inconvenience and expense, but having looked carefully into the matter since then and had the privilege of a discussion with my hon. Friend, I felt that the conclusion of the Clause, as it stands, was too wide and on the whole that it was safer to withdraw it, and I therefore accept the Amendment.

§ Sir E. CORNWALL
How would that apply to such things as Lord Mayor's funds? Would they come under the jurisdiction of the Bill?

§ Mr. BRACE
Yes.

§ Mr. G. THORNE
No one desires to discourage existing organisations which are thoroughly well managed, and all I would ask is that in the interpretation of this Clause it shall not be read so as to produce that effect.

§ Mr. RAWLINSON
In regard to the Royal Patriotic Fund, is it quite clear, unless those words are kept in, that its case would be met?

§ Mr. BRACE
Yes.

§ Mr. J. W. WILSON
The essence of Subsection (1) of the Clause is to do away with one-man management.

§ Mr. A. WILLIAMS
I wish to point out to the hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill that there is one thing which I think is a decided blemish upon the measure—it is that there is no provision for making the accounts public. Under a subsequent Clause there is the right to inspect the accounts, but that is a very formal and difficult business, and people do not very often suspect the accounts at all until they see them, and find reason to suspect them. I do hope that in another place the hon. Gentleman will make some provision for either placing these accounts outside the door of the town hall, or on the church door, or publishing them in the newspapers, or in some other way making them 1375 public, so that hundreds and thousands of people may see them and have a chance of detecting anything wrong if there be anything wrong. It is perhaps too late to do it here now, but I earnestly commend the matter to my hon. Friend before the Bill has finally passed through the other place.

§ Mr. BRACE
I hope my hon. Friend will not think it discourteous on my part if I cannot promise him consideration of putting in an Amendment in another place. There will be an auditor who must receive the approval of the registration authority, and in addition there is the right of anybody to examine the accounts, which I should think ought to be enough in all conscience. We are dealing with money given by the charitable public, and we do not want to saddle them with any unnecessary expenditure that could not be justified. I hope my hon. Friend will not think I am discourteous in not bringing his Amendment before another place

§ Mr. A. WILLIAMS
I did not mean that the expense should fall on to charity.