§ (1) Coal shall not be sold, or offered for sale, at any place within the Metropolitan police district and the City of London at a price exceeding the London maximum price.
§ (2) The London maximum of any coal shall be a sum equal to the price of that coal at the pit's mouth as fixed under this Act, together with such additional price per ton as the Board of Trade may allow to provide for the cost of freight and distribution and reasonable profit to the merchants and vendors of such coal.
§ Clause brought up, and read the first time.
§ Mr. DICKINSONI beg to move, "That the Clause be read a second time."
5.0 P.M.
I can hardly expect the right hon. Gentleman to accept this proposal, because he definitely refused a similar proposal in Committee. Nevertheless, the importance of this question has not been diminished by the lapse of time, and I am perfectly certain that public opinion outside agrees that the only way by which a satisfactory arrangement can be made in London is by fixing a London maximum price. In the first place, this is a different Clause to that which was suggested in Committee, because I have profited by the observations which were made on those occasions, and I now suggest that the authority which shall have full discretion to regulate the price shall be the Board of Trade. I am suggesting simply that the Board of Trade should have put into its hands by means of this Bill the very power which the right hon. Gentleman has said he is going to exercise for the purpose of obtaining the very object we all have in view. According to his statement on the Second Reading, the scheme that is in his mind with regard to the supply of coal in London is first of all that the price at the pit-head should be limited to 4s. above the price of 1913, and, secondly, that there should be added to that price the freight, over which the Government, of course, have absolute control now that they have the control of the railways and the cost of 2185 distribution by the merchants in London, which is going to be regulated by certain agreements to which he has referred. I must say that I think we have some slight ground for complaint that the right hon. Gentleman in foreshadowing these agreements has not told us precisely what they are. I know, as a matter of fact, although he may have agreed with the Coal Merchants' Association, that there are a large number of coal merchants in London who are in no way bound by that agreement, and, although it is probable all the coal merchants will be at any rate induced, if not enforced, to observe the agreement which has been made by the leading coal merchants, they will certainly be under no binding obligation to do so. I think the right hon. Gentleman should tell the House now what real authority he will have over the non-signing merchants of London, and also, especially, over the hawkers, of whom we have been speaking. I submit, if the power which I suggest in this Clause were given to the Board of Trade, that it would place him in a position of authority, and that he would be able to enforce the observance of these agreements by every coal merchant in London. I do not know why he refuses to have this power thrust upon him. I am certain that it would be of the greatest value. I do not believe, as the Clause is now drafted, that it is open to any of the objections which the right hon. Gentleman had to the fixing of prices, because it will only be used by him when it is necessary and as a last resort. I have, therefore, no hesitation in asking the House to agree to this Clause, and particularly in begging the right hon. Gentleman to make some public announcement which will enable the public to know what are the terms which, in his mind, are going to secure the price of coal when delivered in London.
Mr. RUNCIMANAfter what I said on the Second Reading, and after the discussion we had on this proposal in Committee, I do not feel that it is necessary for me to add much now on the Report stage. My right hon. Friend has cut out of his proposal the limitation of 15s. which appeared in the original proposal, and he has substituted the Board of Trade. I am sure he will not think me ungrateful when I say that we do not specially desire to have extra duties thrust on the Board of Trade. Our duties are already very wide and responsible, and the duty which is suggested in this new Clause is not only one which I 2186 do not desire, but is one which I believe would in itself prove to be harmful rather than helpful.. The London maximum price of coal is not any one price at all; it may be a great number of prices. It must depend upon the distance from the railway depots, from the coalfields, and upon a number of other considerations, including carriage and distribution. Moreover, any attempt to fix the London maximum prices of coal would necessitate our going into a very large number of distinctions, both as to quality and condition alike, and that is in itself a thing which the Board of Trade, without, I am sure, showing itself unduly modest, must decline.
My right hon. Friend asked what arrangements have been made that are going to help London in the coming season. In the first place, I hope that this Bill will do something towards helping to keep down the price of house coal at the pithead. That is something. You certainly cannot have a low priced coal distributed to London householders if the price at the pit-head is abnormally high. That, after all, is the dominating factor, and whatever arrangements may be made at later stages there is no doubt that a real shortage of coal in Great Britain would lead to high prices at the pit-head, and that no matter how many authorities you drag in—the Board of Trade, the local authorities, the co-operative societies, and any other authorities you please—would involve you in a very high price to the consumer in London. Having laid that basis which, as I said in Committee, is not a watertight and economic basis, but which I believe to be a good working basis, the next stage is the adding of the expenses which come from the cost of carriage. I do not anticipate that railway rates are going up during the coming autumn season; at all events, so far as we have control of railway rates we shall prevent them going up.
Let me remind the House that house coal comes into London mainly by rail. Gas coal comes largely by sea, but house coal comes mainly by rail, and to that extent I think we shall have greater security than in the past. Then comes the distribution of coal by the merchants in London, who take the coal from the depots, and pass it by way of carts or wagons to the consumers. That must vary with practically every district in London. The district varies, the position of the dep6t varies, and the railway rates to those depots vary, so that to fix any one maximum price would be impossible. When I say "impossible," I do not 2187 mean politically, but actually and arithmetically impossible, unless you give an undue advantage to those who live in and around the depot districts over those who live a great distance from them. My right hon. Friend asked what arrangements we have made with the coal merchants. The arrangements will, I believe, cover something like 200 firms. Having given us a chance of examining the out-of-pocket expenses incurred in the distribution of coal, they have undertaken that the amount which they will charge in the coming season will not give them an added profit above that which they got in pre-war time, and as that must vary with the individual district, it is of course impossible to name any one flat figure at which coal will be vended all over London. I propose, as long as we are satisfied that undertaking is abided by, to publish the names of those merchants who have entered into it, and I would recommend consumers in London that they would be well advised to give their orders to those who have entered into this arrangement with the Board of Trade.
§ Sir T. WALTERSWill that apply to places outside of London as well?
Mr. RUNCIMANThat which I have done in London can be equally done by the local authorities in their own districts. If it is suggested that the Board of Trade is to embark on the same arrangement in all the areas of Great Britain, I must reply that we have not a staff large enough to do it, but the local authorities can equally make these arrangements for themselves.
Mr. RUNCIMANI have no power to press them; I can only recommend them. I would suggest that the House should not pile on to the Board of Trade duties which should be performed by other authorities. The local authorities are much more closely in touch with the facts than we can be at Whitehall, and they ought to look after the interests of those who live in their areas. I hope that my right hon. Friend will be comparatively satisfied with the statement which I have made, and that we may now proceed with the Bill.
§ Mr. DICKINSONMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether his expression "pre-war profits" means the profits in 1913?
Mr. RUNCIMANYes, in 1913–14, which, I think, is the best period to take—that is to say, the autumn, winter, and summer previous to the outbreak of the War.
§ Question put, and negatived.