HC Deb 20 July 1915 vol 73 cc1443-7

(1) For the purposes hereinafter mentioned relating to pensions and grants and allowances made in respect of the present War to officers and men in the naval and military services of His Majesty and their wives, widows, children and other dependants, and the care of officers and men disabled in consequence of the present War there shall be constituted a Statutory Committee of the Royal Patriotic Fund Corporation (hereinafter referred to as the Corporation), consisting of twenty-nine members, appointed as hereinafter mentioned.

(2) Of the said twenty-nine members—

(3) Four of the members appointed by the General Council of the Corporation shall be appointed from amongst the members of the Corporation, but save as aforesaid it shall not be necessary that the persons appointed to be members of the Statutory Committee should at the time of appointment be members of the Corporation.

(4) There may be paid to the chairman and vice-chairman, or either of them, out of moneys provided by Parliament, such salary as the Treasury may determine.

(5) All other expenses of the Committee (including such travelling and other allowances to members of the Committee as the Committee may determine) shall be paid out of the funds at the disposal of the Committee.

(6) Seven members of the Statutory Committee shall constitute a quorum, and the Statutory Committee may appoint sub-committees consisting either wholly or partly of members of the Statutory Committee, and may delegate to such subcommittees, with or without any restrictions or conditions as they think fit, any of their powers and duties under this Act. Subject to this provision, the Committee: shall regulate their own procedure.

(7) The term of office of a member of the Statutory Committee shall be three years; but a retiring member shall be eligible for reappointment: Provided that if a member required to be appointed from amongst the members of the Corporation ceases for two months to be a member of the Corporation otherwise than as a member of the Statutory Committee he shall at the end of that period vacate his office as member of the Statutory Committee, and that a person appointed to fill a casual vacancy shall continue in office so long only as the person in whose place he was appointed would have continued in office.

(8) The Statutory Committee may employ a secretary, assistant secretaries, and such other clerks and servants as they may require, and may establish a scheme of pensions for persons in their permanent employment.

Amendments made: In Sub-section (1), leave out the word "twenty-nine" ["consisting of twenty-nine members"], and insert instead thereof the word "twenty-five."

In Sub-section (2), leave out the word "twenty-nine," and insert instead thereof the word "twenty-five."

Mr. McKENNA

I beg to move, in the same Sub-section, to leave out the words "two shall be appointed by the Governing Body of the National Belief Fund; two shall be appointed by the Soldiers' and Sailors' Families Association."

Colonel YATE

Can the Chancellor of the Exchequer give us any assurance that these various societies will be put on the local committees—the Soldiers' and Sailors' Families Association, the Disabled Soldiers' and Sailors' Help Society, and the Officers' Families Fund? Will representatives of those organisations be represented as a right on local committees?

Mr. McKENNA

I would gladly give the hon. and gallant Gentleman the assurance he asks for if it were in my power to do so. Under the Bill local committees have to be formed in accordance with the scheme which is given to the statutory Committee. I have no doubt that the statutory Committee on every occasion will have regard to the proper representation on the local committee of those bodies if the persons are actually fit for the duties and have a practical knowledge of the work to be done. May I take the opportunity of saying that the omission of these words does not in any way suggest that the work of the Soldiers' and Sailors' Families Association has not been fully appreciated by the Government. On the contrary, we recognise to the full the admirable work they have done. In regard to the constitution of the statutory Committee, it will be seen that there is on the Committee no representation of any body except a body which is in some respects a public authority responsible to this House in some degree or another. What appears to be an exception to this is the six members appointed by the Royal Patriotic Corporation, but they are appointed by a body which has to report to this House, and although not responsible, it is nevertheless brought under the executive body, whose conduct is from time to time considered by this House. It would be quite an anomaly to put on a body of this kind persons representing an association which, so far as this House is concerned, is completely irresponsible. It is for that reason that the representatives of the National Relief Fund were quite properly, as everybody admits, removed from the statutory Committee, and that these particular associations have been removed. It would be a mistake to assume that our action in any way is a condemnation of them. So far from that, we have the most high admiration for the work they have done.

Sir H. CRAIK

I quite understand that the right hon. Gentleman is not able to give any undertaking with regard to the local committees, but in his speech in moving this Bill he referred to Clause 1, the first Sub-section of which says that twelve of the Committee shall be appointed by His Majesty. In regard to this the right hon. Gentleman is in the position to give a much more definite understanding. He must be himself to a great extent the nominator of these twelve, and is he prepared to come to an understanding that he will consider the claims of the Soldiers' and Sailors' Families Association in the nomination? He himself in Committee distinctly gave us to understand that the Soldiers' and Sailors' Families Association might look for nomination amongst those twelve. Can he give us any undertaking that their claims will be carefully considered by him?

Mr. McKENNA

Most certainly, I should certainly consider persons of obvious suitability to be appointed, but in appointments of this kind it would be impossible-for me to give an undertaking. I should not be doing my duty unless I most carefully considered all the appointments.

Colonel YATE

I hope the right hon. Gentleman will consider the other two societies, the Disabled Soldiers' and Sailors' Help Society and the Officers' Families Fund.

Amendment agreed to.

Bill reported with Amendments; as amended (on re-committal), considered.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read the third time."

Mr. HOGGE

I suppose it will take some little time to get this statutory Committee set up, and to secure a vice-chairman. There are a great many claims already pending, particularly those for separation allowances, for which more funds are wanted, and I trust that when those claims are sent in the people will not have to wait very much longer. They have been waiting a fairly long time already, and the sooner their claims are expedited the better.

Mr. RAFFAN

May I ask whether somebody in this House will be prepared to answer questions on behalf of the Statutory Committee. This will practically be a public body, and I hope the right hon. Gentleman will agree that as in the case of the Insurance there should be a responsible Minister prepared to answer any questions.

Mr. McKENNA

This will generally be the responsibility of the Treasury, and so I can imagne that in certain cases the War Office would answer, and in other cases the Admiralty. As to the other point of the hon. Member for East Edinburgh, I will inquire as to what steps can immediately be taken.

Queston put, and agreed to.

Bill read the third time, and passed.