CLAUSE 13.—(Application to Scotland.) (Hansard, 8 July 1915)

§ Sir G. YOUNGER
I beg to move, in paragraph (2), after the word "authorities" ["to call upon the other local authorities within its area"], to insert the words "and the county and borough assessor."
The right hon. Gentleman is not so well acquainted with the Scottish system as I am, although there is nothing about valuation work and registration work which he does not know pretty well. The right hon. Gentleman, however, does know that in Scotland we have an admirable system of assessors, and I know that he has often said that he would like the 569 same system in England. It is for that reason that I inquire whether the powers given to the local authorities include power to call in the assistance of these assessors, because they are infinitely better qualified for the work than anybody else. If the Clause gives power to call them in I am satisfied, and if it does not I think that power ought to be inserted.

§ The LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. Munro)
If the hon. Baronet will look carefully at the Clause I think he will see that his Amendment is not necessary. Sub-section (2) provides that— The council of a county and the town council of a royal parliamentary or police burgh shall be the local registration authorities for their respective areas. The assumption of the Clause is that these respective authorities have the power to call in the services of all or any of their servants, and this would, of course, include the assessor in the burgh or the county. I think it would be extremely dangerous and undesirable to specify any particular servant in regard to either of these authorities, the assumption of the Clause being that any of these authorities may call in the assistance of any servant whom that authority pleases. I suggest to the hon. Baronet that the desirable result he wishes to attain is already provided for under the Bill as it stands. Under these circumstances perhaps he will not press his Amendment.

§ Sir G. YOUNGER
If that is the case, then I have nothing more to say. It is perfectly well known to the right hon. Gentleman that some of the county assessors are Somerset House officials. They are no doubt paid by the county council or the burgh council, and I presume that they are technically servants of the council and are covered by that provision. I have no doubt the Lord Advocate is acquainted with the facts and is telling me what is accurate, and I ask leave to withdraw my Amendment.

§ Sir JOHN DEWAR
Unless there is any very strong reason to the contrary, I wish to support the hon. Baronet's Amendment I know that in many cases the assessor is never looked upon as a servant of the town council or the county council. They are Somerset House officials, although they do work for the council and the burgh council. I hope the words suggested by the hon. Baronet will be inserted unless 570 there is some very strong reason against this course being taken.

§ Mr. PRINGLE
I think it is only in the case of one authority, namely, the corporation of Glasgow, that the assessor is the servant of the local authority.

§ Sir G. YOUNGER
It is the same in Edinburgh.

§ Mr. PRINGLE
I think the cases are exceptional where the assessor is both appointed and paid by the local authority.

§ Sir G. YOUNGER
I know there are other cases.

§ Mr. PRINGLE
In view of the fact that the position of the assessor is not uniform in Scotland, it might be advisable for the Lord Advocate to consider, for the purpose of removing any doubts, the insertion of a provision to make the position definite.

§ Mr. MUNRO
I am speaking upon information supplied me to the effect that these servants are the officials of the county council or the town council, and my answer is that it would be extremely dangerous to single out one particular servant and say that he is to be called in without specifying all the particular officials. The whole thing depends upon whether I am rightly informed that these assessors are the officials of the town council and the county council. I regret that the Secretary for Scotland is prevented by official business from being here. If there had been a Report stage I should have suggested that the matter should have been dealt with then. I will make inquiries, but my present information is what I have stated to the House. It might be sufficient, if found necessary, to insert these words in another place.

§ Sir G. YOUNGER
It will satisfy me if the right hon. Gentleman says that if necessary it will be done in another place. I have no doubt he agrees with me that the words ought to go in if they are really required.

§ Mr. WATT
I beg to move in Sub-section (2), after the word "prescribed" ["such conditions as may be prescribed"], to insert the words, "by the Secretary for Scotland."

§ Mr. MUNRO
I think my hon. and learned Friend, if he looks further into the Bill, will be of the opinion that the 571 Amendment is superfluous. Clause 8 says that anything authorised by this Act to be prescribed shall be prescribed by the Local Government Board. Then if the hon. Member looks at the Scottish Clause, and Sub-section (1) in particular, he will find that the Secretary for Scotland is to be substituted for the Local Government Board. Accordingly the Bill already provides that anything to be prescribed shall, so far as Scotland is concerned, be prescribed by the Secretary for Scotland. My hon. Friend will therefore see that he has already got in the Bill the proposal which he desires to add to this Clause.

§ Mr. WATT
After the lucid explanation of my hon. and learned Friend, I beg leave to withdraw the Amendment.

§ Mr. PRINGLE
I beg to move to leave out Sub-section (3).
This Amendment is put down with a view of ascertaining whether in the case of Scotland some estimate could not be laid down for the various authorities as to the expenditure they might reasonably incur. It is not of so much importance to raise it now after the statement of the President of the Local Government Board yesterday that it was the intention of the Treasury to give a reasonable amount to cover all expenses. It might be possible, in issuing instructions, for the Scottish Office in Scotland to offer for the different local authorities according to the special circumstances of these authorities an estimate of what would be a reasonable cost, because in many districts the cost may vary very considerably, and some local authorities may hesitate to spend what is necessary for the efficient compilation of the register if they know that they run the risk of having subsequently to pay the money out of the local rates. If there were an estimate given in the first instance, then they would know the requirements and keep themselves well within the estimate. I do not wish to press the Amendment.

§ Mr. MUNRO
I am very much obliged to my hon. Friend for the way in which he has put the question. I should not like off-hand to give him any assurance on the point, and all I would say is that I will convey his proposal to the Secretary for Scotland.