§ 19. Mr. GINNELLasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) if he will say by how many beasts, and to what estimated money value, the export of fat pigs from Ireland has fallen in the last six months, in consequence of restrictions in connection with disease, as compared with the corresponding period when last disease free?
§ Mr. RUSSELL (Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture, Ireland)The total number of fat pigs exported from Ireland to Great Britain during the six months ended 31st March last was 117,351, and during the six months ended 31st March, 1912, 278,980, showing a decrease of 161,629 animals of an estimated value of £622,195. For comparative purposes, the period 1st October, 1911, to 31st March, 1912, has been taken, inasmuch as restrictions on exportation were in force during the part of the corresponding period of 1912–1913. It must not be assumed that these figures represent an actual loss or that the decrease shown is wholly due to foot-and-mouth disease restrictions.
§ 20. Mr. GINNELLasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland), having regard to the sufficiency of the fifteen-mile radius restriction against foot-and-mouth disease hitherto in Ireland and still in England, and for the information of the sufferers from the 1082 fifty-mile radius enforced by the Department this year, what reason, if any, there was for it; what opinion the Department obtained of its legality before enforcing it; the number of families injured by it; their estimated aggregate loss; and when this wide radius will be reduced?
§ Mr. RUSSELLA fifty-mile radius has not been in use in dealing with outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease in Ireland. This question probably refers to the boundary line drawn to admit of the embargo on exportation to Great Britain, which applied to all Ireland, being relaxed as regards the area north of such line, in which no outbreak had appeared. Movement out of the area south of such line was necessarily at the same time prohibited. Steps of this nature are within the powers conferred by Section 22 of the Diseases of Animals Act, 1894. It is not possible to answer the latter part of the hon. Member's question.
§ Mr. GINNELLThe right hon. Gentleman has not answered the question, asking on whose opinion this Order was regarded as legal—whether it was the opinion of the legal authorities or the opinion of the officials?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThe opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown.
§ 21. Mr. GINNELLasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) by how many beasts and to what estimated money value the export of stall-fed fat stock from Ireland has fallen in the season now closing as a consequence of restrictions in connection with disease, as compared with the most recent normal disease-free season; whether he is aware that many beasts fit for sale last February are still in the stalls, reduced in value £4 a head, plus the cost of feeding in the interval; whether he is aware that some of these cases in North Westmeath are 50 miles from the nearest disease centre; and whether he will give a reference to the specific statutory authority for imposing this loss in these circumstances?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThis year, since 30th January, the exports of fat cattle to Great Britain are short by about 48,000 head in number as compared with the same period last year. The value of these animals is approximately £850,000. It must not be assumed that these figures represent an actual loss. The authority under 1083 which the Department deal with the suppression of foot-and-mouth disease is the Act 62 and 63 Vic, chap. 50.
§ Mr. GINNELLThe right hon. Gentleman has not answered whether he is aware of the specific cases of losses fifty miles from the nearest centre of the disease.
§ Mr. RUSSELLThe only ground upon which the hon. Member can use the figure fifty miles is by drawing a line right through the centre of Ireland and taking everything north of the line as free.
§ Mr. GINNELLDoes the right hon. Gentleman's Department, or does it not, deny the losses stated in the allegation in the question?
§ Mr. RUSSELLNo, Sir, but we have no means at the present moment of accurately judging of the losses.
§ Mr. GINNELLThen you do admit them?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI categorically said that you must not assume that the cattle are not in existence, and that they may not be sold. It is absurd to say that there are losses when there may be no loss.
§ Mr. GINNELLIs it or is it not a fact that these animals are reduced in value after two months' feeding?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThat is probable, but they may recover.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEIs it not a fact that cattle were selling at the fair at Athy at 31s. 6d. per cwt. live weight, and that in the ordinary course, if there had been no restrictions, these cattle would have brought 36s. 6d. per cwt. live weight?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThat is quite possible.
§ 86. Mr. GINNELLasked the President of the Board of Agriculture if he will say what special opinion the Board obtained on the legality of the requirement before requiring the Irish Department of Agriculture to enforce a fifty-mile radius of restriction against foot-and-mouth disease, while a fifteen-mile radius is held to be sufficient in both England and Ireland; find if he will give a reference to any statutory authority for requiring the wider restriction to be enforced in Ireland?
§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. Herbert Lewis, for Mr. Runciman)The Orders restricting the movement of 1084 animals in Ireland on account of foot-and-mouth disease are made by the Irish Department, and questions concerning the area affected by them should be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Vice-President. The Board have no reason to doubt the legality of the Orders, but they have not obtained any special opinion on the point.
87. Mr. STAN IERasked which ports in Great Britain are now open to receive Irish store stock, and which ports in Ireland are open to receive store cattle from Great Britain?
§ Mr. LEWISThe following ports in Great Britain are now open for the reception of store stock from Ireland, namely. Ayr, Barrow-in-Furness, Fleetwood, Greenock, Heysham, Holyhead, and Stranraer. The second part of the question should be addressed to my right hon Friend the Vice-President of the Irish Department.
§ Mr. STANIERWill the right hon. Gentleman put it to the President of the Board of Agriculture that it is a great grievance in this country that we cannot send stock to that country when they can to this?
§ 88. Mr. STANIERasked what is the least period of time since the last outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease that is given to allow an area in Ireland to export store cattle to this country; and what area or distance is now considered safe from a late outbreak before the area is allowed to export store stock to this country?
§ Mr. LEWISIt is impossible to lay-down any rule. The extent and the duration of the restrictions depend upon a great variety of circumstances, the evidence as to the origin of the outbreak, the length of time during which disease existed before being discovered, the tracing of contact animals, and so forth. In every case the Board and the Irish Department are in constant communication with one another, with the single object of allowing the trade in store cattle between the affected area and Great Britain to be resumed at the earliest possible moment reasonably compatible with due precautions against the spread of infection.
§ Mr. STANIERCan the right hon. Gentleman give the minimum distance?
§ Mr. FIELDI beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture a question, of which I have given private notice, namely: Whether he can state when it is likely that Dublin port will be opened for the export of Irish live stock; whether any arrangement is being made for the reception of Irish live stock in the port of Plymouth; and whether he can give the dates, titles and sections of the Orders under which those embargo Regulations are issued?
§ Mr. LEWISAfter consultation with representatives of the Irish Department, the Board propose to issue an Order, to come into operation on Monday midnight, the effect of which will be to allow fat stock from the southern part of Ireland, excluding the present scheduled areas, to be shipped from Dublin and Wexford for immediate slaughter at the following ports in Great Britain, namely, a portion of Birkenhead, Cardiff, Bristol (Avon-mouth), Manchester, and Deptford. At present there is no suitable landing place for Irish live stock at Plymouth, but the Board will be glad to consider any proposals made to them for the provision of the necessary accommodation. The Regulations governing the importation of Irish live stock into Great Britain are contained in Orders issued from time to time by the Board, under the powers conferred upon them by Section 22 of the Diseases of Animals Act, 1894.
§ Mr. JOHN REDMONDMay I ask the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) whether any decision has been come to as to the reopening of the port of Waterford?
§ Mr. RUSSELLYes. We hope to be able to open the port of Waterford on Thursday next.
§ Mr. RUSSELLIf the hon. Gentleman will put down a question as to the port of Limerick for Monday next, I hope to be able to give him a satisfactory answer.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) whether the restricted area in county Kildare has been reduced to a radius of five miles from Ballysax, and whether, in view of this limitation, the fair of Kildare on Monday and Tuesday next can be held?
§ Mr. RUSSELLKildare Scheduled District at present includes the town of Kildare, but if nothing unforeseen occurs it is proposed to reduce the district by the end of this week. This will exclude the town of Kildare, and admit of the fair being held on Monday and Tuesday next.