§ 8. Mr. O'DONNELLasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that the extra amount per annum required to give full salaries to paper-promoted teachers in Ireland would be only £1,400; whether there is any rule of the Education Board which authorises the withholding from teachers of the salaries attaching to the grade to which they are promoted; and whether, seeing the treatment accorded to those teachers and the small amount required, he will request the Treasury to make the necessary Grant?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe hon. Member is under a misapprehension. As I stated in reply to his question of 28th March, it would require an annual sum of £1,400 to pay at the higher rates the 113 teachers who are at present awaiting vacancies in the higher grades. An indefinite increase, however, in the standard numbers of the various grades would entail an extra annual charge of many thousands of pounds. Rule 102 (c) of the Commissioners of National Education states that the number of teachers recognised in each grade or section of a grade is fixed from time to time by the Commissioners and the Treasury. The Irish Government in- 1331 formed the Commissioners in 1911 that they were prepared to recommend to the Treasury a limited expansion of the numbers fixed for the first grade on the understanding that no further promotions should be made save on the occurrence of vacancies, but the Commissioners declined that offer.
§ Mr. O'DONNELLIs it not the fact that the Commissioners of Education have tried to do away with this rule, but the Treasury have refused their consent?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Treasury are quite unable to do away with the rule altogether without adding very materially indeed to the annual charge.
§ Mr. O'DONNELLWill not the Treasury allow the Commissioners of Education, who are responsible, to decide when teachers should get an increase of salary?
§ Mr. BIRRELLAll that the Treasury insist upon is that there shall not be an indefinite increase, and that some modus vivendi should be established. We have made a proposal of that sort to the Commissioners, but they have declined to accept it. I am quite prepared to consider the question again, if there is any disposition on the part of the Commissioners to enter into the matter on a business footing.
§ Sir JOHN LONSDALEWill the right hon. Gentleman recommend the Treasury to discharge their liabilities to the 113 teachers?
§ Mr. BIRRELLCertainly I would do so, but the Commissioners will not agree to the terms. I am most anxious to pay them.
§ Sir JOHN LONSDALEWill the right hon. Gentleman bring some pressure to bear on the Treasury?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Treasury are quite willing to pay the people who are now outstanding, but they will not agree to the abolition of this rule, and thereby make an indefinite increase possible.
§ Mr. O'DONNELLDoes not that mean that the Treasury can definitely debar the Commissioners from promoting teachers?
§ Mr. BIRRELLIt is not a question of that sort; it is a question of the money.