HC Deb 28 October 1912 vol 43 cc26-8
66. Mr. AMERY

asked the Postmaster-General whether, under the provisions of the Government of Ireland Bill, as amended, in accordance with the latest declarations of the Government, any loss on Irish postal or telegraph services arising out of rates imposed by the United Kingdom Post Office will be regarded as a loss on the Irish Post Office administration to be met out of Irish revenues, or as an expense incurred by the Irish Post Office for the benefit of the United Kingdom Post Office to be repaid by the latter; and whether the determination of the existence and amount of such loss will be left to the United Kingdom Post Office or to the Joint Exchequer Board?

The POSTMASTER-GENERAL (Mr. Herbert Samuel)

The question would be one for arrangement between the two Post Offices under the regulations to be made.

Mr. AMERY

How is a dispute between the two Post Offices to be finally settled?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

I hope there will not be any dispute, but if there is it will probably come before this House.

Mr. AMERY

Am I to understand it will be finally settled by this House and not by the Irish Parliament, and that this House will be the final arbiter in questions of financial dispute between the United Kingdom Post Office and the Irish Post Office?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

If the matter came before Parliament at all it would come before this House, whose general control is specifically reserved under the Bill and over all matters of this description.

67. Mr. AMERY

asked whether, under the Government of Ireland Bill, as amended in accordance with the latest declarations of the Government, it will be possible for the Irish Post Office to issue stamps of the same design as United Kingdom stamps, but differing in colour, size, quality of paper, or adhesive material; whether such stamps will be available for ordinary use in the United Kingdom; whether United Kingdom stamps will be available for use in Ireland; and, if so, what arrangements will be made to obviate possible losses of revenue on the part of one administration or the other?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

The Government will consider before the Report stage the suggestion that the control over stamps to be reserved to the Imperial Government by the Government of Ireland Bill should not be limited to their design. Arrangements would be made between the two Post Offices to prevent error in. the allocation of revenue.

Mr. AMERY

The right hon. Gentleman has not answered the last part of my question; and may I ask is the stamp to be an identical one; and, if so, as the Attorney-General said the other day, how will the revenue difficulty be met?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

The matter will have to be considered when the case arises. If there is any possibility of confusion of revenue, the design might be modified in some slight degree merely to distinguish the Irish stamps from the English stamps.

Mr. AMERY

Do I understand they will be the same stamp which may be used in any part of the United Kingdom, or a separate stamp only to be used in Ireland? I should like to have a definite answer to that question.

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

It is rather difficult to deal with a matter of this kind until the Irish Post Office has come into existence and until the views of the Irish Postmaster-General on these points are known. If there is no danger whatever of confusion of revenue, then the same stamp would be used, and if it was found there was any danger to the revenue, it might be necessary to have some slight modification.

68. Mr. AMERY

asked whether, under the provisions of the Government of Ireland Bill, the Irish Post Office will have, control over the issue and cost of all postal orders issued in Ireland, or only over those intended for recipients in Ireland; and whether Irish postal orders will be accepted in United Kingdom post offices in the same way as United Kingdom postal orders and vice versa?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

In order to promote public convenience, the Irish Post Office will doubtless arrange for the use of British postal orders, as is already done in New Zealand, South Africa, and other parts of the Empire.

70. Mr. AMERY

asked the Postmaster-General if he can state by what procedure it is intended that the personnel and property of the Post Office in Ireland, which in its capacity of a United Kingdom service will be outside the jurisdiction and control of the Irish Government, are to be transferred to the Irish Government; whether the financial arrangements contemplated as a part of such transfer will include some consideration for the capital value of the property transferred; and what provision will be made for their re-transfer in case a subsequent Postmaster-General should decide to exercise his constitutional right under the Government of Ireland Bill to retain the administration of the United Kingdom postal service in Ireland in his own hands?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

In answer to the first part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to Clauses 38, 39 and 40 of the Bill; and in answer to the second part, to Clause 44 (1) (c) and (f). The contingency suggested in the third part is not considered probable, but should it arise arrangements made by virtue of Clause 40 could be terminated by the same process as that by which they had been made.