§ 41. Mr. FREDERICK WHYTEasked whether the directors of the Carnegie Trust consulted the Scottish Education Department on the question of making the leaving certificate examination of the Department a condition of the payment of university fees; whether there have been any communications of any kind between these two bodies on this subject; and whether any attempt was made to elicit the opinion of the Scottish universities upon it?
Mr. McKINNON WOODThe answer to the first and second parts of the question is in the negative, as is also the answer to the third part, so far as the Scottish Education Department are concerned.
§ 44 and 57. Mr. HOGGEasked the Secretary for Scotland (1) whether, in view of the fact that the original constitution of the Carnegie Trust declares that no capable students shall be debarred from university education, he is prepared in the interests of Scottish education to make representations to the trust that their policy of insising on the leaving certificate of the Scottish Education Department as the necessary preliminary to obtaining a Grant in aid of fees is likely to debar a type of student who previously has been one of the most valuable assets of the Scottish universities; and (2) whether the Scottish Education Department has considered the special case of medical students who now take a preliminary examination in subjects which cease to be subjects of instruction for their degrees, inasmuch as the new regulations of the Carnegie Trust, by forcing them to take the leaving certificate of the Scottish Education Department before they can receive Grants in aid of fees, may delay their entrance to a university for eighteen months in case of failure in only one subject; and whether he proposes to take any steps to prevent this policy militating against the reputation of the Scottish medical schools?
Mr. McKINNON WOODThe Regulation referred to is not as stated in the questions, nor do I think its effect is 999 correctly stated. It does not apply to all students as appears to be suggested. It does apply to students entering the universities from the secondary schools, as a general rule and with certain qualifications, and as applied to such students I regard it as salutary in its effect and calculated to advance the interests of sound education. Otherwise, as I have already stated recently, neither as Secretary for Scotland nor as the Minister responsible for the administration of the Scotch Education Department have I any jurisdiction over the Carnegie Trust or the Scottish universities.
§ Mr. HOGGEAm I to understand that the Carnegie Trust grant will not apply to students who have not gone through secondary schools and are entering a university?
§ 54. Mr. HOGGEasked whether, in leaving certificate examination of the Scottish Education Department, the principle of compensatory marking exists; whether this is so in the preliminary examination of the joint board of preliminary examiners at the universities; and whether, therefore, in the view of the Scottish Education Department, the university preliminary examination is a more satisfactory test of the capability of a student to enter on a university career than the leaving certificate of the Department?
Mr. McKINNON WOODMy hon. Friend appears to have in view the fact that, in determining the award of the leaving certificate, excellence in one subject of a candidate's group may be allowed to compensate, within reasonable limits, for weakness in another. This, however, has no effect on the marking in individual subjects, passes in which alone can confer exemption either in whole or in part from the university preliminary examination. The reply to the last part of the question is in the negative.
§ Mr. HOGGEAre we to understand that the Scottish Education Department are now of opinion that the preliminary examination by the Joint University Preliminary Board has a superior value to the Scottish-leaving certificate?
§ 55. Mr. HOGGEasked the Secretary for Scotland whether, in view of the fact that the Carnegie Trust in Scotland are endeavouring to insist upon the leaving certificate of the Scottish Education Department as preliminary to a Grant in aid of fees to students entering the universities, he can see his way to arrange for a spring and autumn examination for the leaving certificate, so as to avoid the present loss of time to a student who may fail in one or two subjects?
Mr. McKINNON WOODIt is not accurate to suggest that the leaving certificate is required in all cases, nor do I think that under the present system difficulties arise which would justify the proposal of my hon. Friend, even if it were practicable.
§ Mr. HOGGEIs the right hon. Gentleman not aware that a student failing in one subject in the leaving certificate examination is not able now to advance to a university for a period of eighteen months?