HC Deb 29 July 1912 vol 41 cc1605-7
10. Mr. POINTER

asked if the staff of general cleaners in the two Houses, approximately forty in number, are employed by Simpsons, engineers, Grosvenor Road; whether, although nominally employed by Simpsons, they take their orders from the resident engineer of the lighting and ventilating Department; whether some of the staff have never seen the firm of Simpsons; whether the length of employment of these men ranges from eighteen months to twenty-seven years; whether, if one man takes a few days' holiday, although the rest of the staff perform his work among them, his pay is stopped during that period; whether he will consider if the interests of the Department would best be served by a system of direct labour by the Department; and, if not, what are the advantages of the contract system?

Mr. BENN

The Board have endeavoured to secure, as far as possible, continued employment for the men engaged through their contractors, and it is generally arranged when a change of contractor takes place, that men such as those employed in the Houses of Parliament shall be taken over from the old contractor by the new. The staff is fixed at such a number as to provide for temporary absence of men from work through illness, etc., and, in case of emergency or extra pressure of work, additional men would, in the ordinary course, be taken on. It has been the opinion of the Department that the contract system tends to greater economy and efficiency.

Mr. J. WARD

Would not the hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of reducing the percentages taken by the contractors in order to increase the wages of these men under the contract system?

Mr. BENN

There is a further question on that point, and perhaps the hon. Gentleman will wait.

11. Mr. POINTER

asked whether the clerks of works under the Department are only employed as temporary hands, although some of them have been employed for twenty years; and whether the hon. Gentleman will appoint to the staff all these men who have served ten years or more?

Mr. BENN

All the clerks of works who have a fixed location are on the established staff. The clerks of works employed on new buildings are temporary owing to the fluctuation in number of new buildings. There are eleven temporary clerks of works with as much as ten years' service. Six of these are above the limit of age usually fixed for entry to the establishment.

Mr. POINTER

What is the reason why these men are kept on the temporary staff from year to year when they are doing satisfactory work?

Mr. BENN

The men are kept on the temporary staff because the number of buildings fluctuates.

Mr. POINTER

When the men are sent from job to job, is not their position evidently permanent?

12. Mr. POINTER

asked how the employment of the men engaged on repair and maintenance work by a contractor is more efficient and economical than direct employment by the Office of Works; whether the saving is effected in the wages or conditions of labour of the workmen; if so, whether the cost of putting these men on the establishment would be largely, if not entirely, met by the profits of the contractors; and whether the hon. Gentleman is aware that practically no progressive local authority puts such work out to contract?

Mr. BENN

The opinion referred to is based on the experience of the Department. As the contractor is bound by the Fair-Wages Resolution, no economy is effected at the expense of the workmen. It must be remembered also that the contractor pays for the insurance of workmen in respect of compensation for injuries, the indemnification of the Department in respect of third party claims for injuries or damage, the provision of tools and plant, clerical work, etc.

Mr. J. WARD

Does the hon. Gentleman's answer suggest that the contractor does not charge the fullest possible premium for the indemnity given by the Department for these purposes?

Mr. BENN

I only say that the percentage to which the hon. Member refers covers the charges which were thought necessary.

Mr. W. THORNE

May I ask whether the contract work is done under schedule?

Mr. BENN

The work is measured work and the rest of the work it what is called day work.

Mr. POINTER

Will the hon. Gentleman answer the latter part of the question, "whether the cost of putting these men on the establishment would be largely, if not entirely, met by the profits of the contractors."

Mr. BENN

Obviously, that question cannot be answered until it has been decided what is to be the amount of wages paid to the men.

Sir J. D. REES

Have the men complained of their terms of service?

Mr. BENN

No complaints have been made to me.