§ Mr. HUGH BARRIEI beg to ask the Prime Minister a question, of which I have given him private notice, namely: Whether, in view of the most serious losses already sustained by Irish agriculturists since the outbreak of cattle disease and the widespread alarm felt in Ireland with reference to the new and drastic restrictions announced last night by the Vice-President of the Irish Department of Agriculture, admittedly under pressure of the English Board of Agriculture, he will at once arrange to provide a more adequate opportunity than is available at our evening adjournments in order to discuss the whole question, even if it should involve the House sitting on Saturday first?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI am afraid, in view of the great labours of the House, I cannot propose a Saturday sitting. The question can be raised on the Motion for the Adjournment.
§ Mr. BARRIEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that this threatens to be a national calamity?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI am fully aware of the magnitude and urgency of the matter.
§ Mr. FIELDMay I ask the Vice-President of the Irish Department of Agriculture the reason why in the Order that has been issued four counties in Ireland are scheduled, whereas under the English Regulations only a fifteen miles' cordon would be enforced?
§ Mr. T. W. RUSSELL (the Vice-President of the Board of Agriculture, Ireland)I have no information from Ireland to-day. There is no centre of foot-and-mouth disease in the country at the present time, and the Order issued last night was issued to deal with circumstances of suspicion, and not because of the actual presence of disease.
§ Mr. WILLIAM O'BRIENMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether ho is in agreement with the English Board as to the policy that is being carried out?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThe two Boards are working together in harmony, both having the same object—to stamp out the disease wherever it takes place.
§ Mr. MULDOONI beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture a question, of which I have given him private notice, namely: Whether his attention has been called to an article by Sir John McFadyean, principal of the lloyal Veterinary College, Camden Town, in the "Journal of Comparative Pathology," on the subject of foot-and-mouth disease, in which he states that although the symptoms presented by a single animal may resemble those of the disease in question, the case may be set down as not foot-and-mouth disease when, in spite of abundant, opportunities for infection, it does not spread to other cattle or to sheep; whether it is not a fact that no traces of the disease have been found in either of the cargoes of cattle detained at the South Wall, Dublin, and at Dundee; and whether, in view of these circumstances, he still adheres to the opinion that the animals in question suffered from foot-and-mouth disease?
§ The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of AGRICULTURE (Mr. Runciman)I only received notice of the question this afternoon. I have had no opportunity of looking up the article in question, but when I have had an opportunity of doing so I shall be able to give a fuller reply to the hon. Member.
§ Mr. MULDOONMay I ask whether Sir John McFadyean is not president of the Commission the right hon. Gentleman is sending to India to inquire into this subject; whether he is not, perhaps, the best living authority on the subject; and whether, if the right hon. Gentleman finds that he has written, as I have suggested, he will take immediate steps to quash the 463 Order issued last night upon the strength of the two cases which have been referred to?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI have said that I have had no opportunity of looking up the article to which the hon. Gentleman refers, and I have no means of knowing whether the extract read from it has any bearing whatever on our present circumstances. Sir John McFadyean is a distinguished pathologist and his opinion has frequently been taken on matters relating to foot-and-mouth disease. I shall be quite prepared to quote his opinion on cases similar to this, either inside or outside this House, if it is called for.
§ Mr. MULDOONI beg to give notice that I will repeat the question to-morrow.
§ Captain MURRAYAs this cattle question is of enormous importance to Scotland, I beg to ask the Prime Minister whether it would not be possible to have a few hours' discussion upon it after the guillotine falls on Friday?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI will consider that. The hon. Member means Friday of this week?
§ Captain MURRAYYes.
§ Mr. GINNELLI beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture a question, of which I have given him private notice: Whether it is a fact that he has refused to open British ports to Irish cattle, sheep, and pigs unless the Irish Agricultural Department scheduled as infected North-West Meath and other districts which that Department certifies to be free from infection, and whether, seeing that in the doubtful case traced to Kells, the Department certifies that the cattle from among which the suspected animal came have never had the disease, he will say on what ground he insists upon the imposition of restrictions on a country twenty miles in radius; and having regard to the ruinous effects of those restrictions, and the fact that the suspected case was old and dormant, if he will say when his Order requiring those restrictions will be removed in the event of no other case occurring?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANIt may be convenient in reply to that question that I should make a full statement, though I have not received the question which the hon. Gentleman has read out. An Order was issued yesterday which permits the landing of 464 Irish animals for slaughter at the authorised landing places provided they come from districts with regard to which we can be reasonably confident that foot-and-mouth disease does not exist there, and out of which the movement of animals has not for some time been prohibited. In view of the circumstances, which I explained fully to the House on Monday night, I do not think that any further modification of the restrictions can be made at the present moment consistently with full security against the introduction of the disease into Great Britain; but the situation is being closely and continuously-watched by my right hon. Friend the Vice-President and myself, and I hope, if-no fresh cases occur, that it may be possible for me before very long to provide for the addition of a number of store cattle from those parts of Ireland to which there is no reason to believe the disease has been conveyed. They would, of course, be subject to a short period of detention and supervision at the landing places and subquently on the farms to which they are sent. I hope also to be able at the same time to extend the area from which the animals are allowed to enter British ports for slaughter.
§ Mr. GINNELLThat is no answer to the question which was handed in by me at the right hon. Gentleman's office at twenty minutes past eleven this morning. Allow mo to ask him a question which he can answer now: Whether it is or is not a fact that he refused to open British ports to Irish cattle, sheep, and pigs, unless the Agricultural Department scheduled as infected Westmeath and other districts which that Department certify to be free from infection?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThe Irish Department has not certified those districts free from infection. What they have said is that they have not been able to ascertain any disease in them. For a short time, and only for a short time, while the districts are under suspicion, it is much better to err on the side of caution.
§ Mr. GINNELLCan the right hon. Gentleman say on what grounds he requires a country twenty miles in radius to be restricted?
§ Mr. MacVEAGHI wish to know whether the area scheduled under last night's Order was scheduled at the instance of the English Board, or whether it was done at the direct instance of the 465 Irish Department of Agriculture? I wish to ask also whether, if it is the English Board that is responsible for this indiscriminate scheduling of Irish areas, the right hon. Gentleman can state on what grounds he has scheduled the county Down, seeing that there has not been a case of foot-and-mouth disease in that county for fifty years?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThe two Departments are working conjointly in this matter. It is only by the arrangement which was arrived at on Monday and yesterday that the immediate resumption of the importation of fat animals into this country could have been attained. If we had not arrived at an arrangement of that kind it would not have been possible for us so soon to have resumed the importation of fat animals.
§ Mr. WILLIAM O'BRIENAre we to understand from the answer of the right hon. Gentleman that the export of fat rattle from the entire province of Munster is now free?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI have stated, and the hon. Gentleman will see from a copy of the Order which I can send to him, that fat cattle from the province of Munster can come into this country quite freely, being slaughtered at the landing places which are detailed in the Order.
Mr. W. A. REDMONDAre we to understand that fat cattle are prohibited not only from export from the restricted areas in Ulster, but also from being removed from place to place within the confines of those areas?
Mr. RUNCMANI speak under correction, but I believe that the Irish Order provides for the free movement within the area, and only, therefore, restricts movement out of the area.
§ Mr. GINNELLI beg to give notice that I will call attention to this on the Motion for Adjournment to-night, and I ask the right hon. Gentleman will he contrive to be in his place at that time?