HC Deb 11 December 1912 vol 45 cc459-61
75. Mr. SNOWDEN

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether a Customs trained official has now been appointed to London East Excise collection; whether no Excise trained official was fit for the post; and whether he will explain why this course of action was adopted in view of the promise that the prospect of no class should suffer by the amalgamation?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. The appointment referred to has been made in the ordinary course of amalgamation, under which men of Customs origin have been, or may be, when necessary appointed to collections formerly under Excise control and vice Versa. Amalgamation could not be successfully carried out if it were necessary to ear-mark particular posts to one or other of the old services. With regard to the last paragraph of the question, I would point out that the effect of amalgamation must be judged as a whole.

Mr. SNOWDEN

May I ask whether there has been a case where an Excise official has been appointed?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

If my hon. Friend will put down a question I will find out.

Mr. SNOWDEN

Is it not a fact that a Customs-trained official is quite incompetent to take charge of these duties, and that in this particular case the official had to be shown where to sign official documents?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

The amalgamation has proceeded on the opposite assumption that Customs officials are competent for Excise work, and that Excise officials are competent for Customs work.

Mr. JAMES HOPE

May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman has not received remonstrances from subordinate officers, trained as Excise officers, as to the difficulty they have in serving under Customs officers who are quite unaccustomed to the work?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

I have no recollection of having received remonstrances, or anything of that sort. If the hon. Gentleman will put down a question I will inquire.

76. Mr. SNOWDEN

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is now prepared to consider the representations contained in the petitions of about 170 surveyors of Customs and Excise (formerly Excise supervisors) forwarded to him last May and setting forth their dissatisfaction with the treatment accorded to them in his announcement of 3rd May, 1912?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

The petitions in question contained no points of which I was not aware when I made my announcement to the deputation on 3rd May last, and I have nothing to add to the statement then made.

77. Mr. SNOWDEN

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will state what number of surveyors' districts, for merly Excise districts, are at present vacant; whether there are any officials with sufficient Excise experience competent to be advanced to these posts; and why the appointments are delayed?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

The number of districts referred to is eighteen, and the question of appointing surveyors to them is under consideration. The answer to the second part of the question is in the affirmative.

78. Mr. SNOWDEN

asked whether there is any evidence, and, if so, the nature thereof, that ex-Customs officials engaged upon Revenue Duties of a character different to those upon which they were for merly employed have had to resort to their subordinates for guidance and instruction in the duties of their present position, and in what manner the efficiency of the Customs and Excise Department is affected thereby?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

No evidence of the kind suggested has been brought before the Board of Customs and Excise by the responsible local collectors, whether as regards ex-Customs officials who have been engaged on Excise work, or as regards ex-Excise officials who have been engaged on Customs work. The Board are satisfied with the reports hitherto received, and do not apprehend that the efficiency of the service will be in any way impaired.

Mr. SNOWDEN

Does the right hon. Gentleman deny that the Department has any knowledge of the fact that Customs officials have asked to go back to the work at which they were formerly engaged, and which they are competent to do?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

I am not aware of that.

Mr. SNOWDEN

Will the right hon. Gentleman inquire?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

I will inquire certainly if the right hon. Gentleman will put down a question on the Paper.