HC Deb 09 December 1912 vol 45 cc201-5

Any pension granted on account of service in Ireland as a judge of the Supreme Court or of any Court consolidated into that Court, or as a County Court Judge, or as an Irish officer in an established capacity in the Civil Service of the Crown, or to any officer or constable of the Dublin Metropolitan Police or Royal Irish Constabulary, and payable at the time of the passing of this Act, or in the case of an officer or constable of the Royal Irish Constabulary at the date of transfer, shall be paid out of moneys provided by the Parliament of the United Kingdom, and shall be made good by means of deductions from the Transferred Sum under this Act in accordance with regulations made by the Treasury.

Government Amendments made:—

Leave out the words "passing of this Act" ["and payable at the time of the passing of this Act"], and insert instead thereof the words "appointed day."

After the word "of" ["shall be paid out of moneys"], insert the words

"the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom or the growing produce thereof, if charged on that fund at the time of the passing of this Act, and out of."

After the word "Kingdom" ["Parliament of the United Kingdom "], insert the words "if so paid at that time."

At the end of the Clause add:— (2) Any pension payable at the time of the passing of this Act and granted on account of service in Ireland as an Irish officer in the Civil Service of the Crown not serving in an established capacity or as a petty sessions clerk or officer in the registry of petty sessions clerks shall, if and so far as the fund out of which it is payable at the time of the passing of this Act is by reason of anything done or omitted after the passing of this Act not available for its payment, be charged upon and paid out of the Irish Consolidated Fund.

Question put, "That the Clause, as Amended, stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 290; Noes. 176.

Division No. 404.] AYES [10.55 p.m.
Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) Cotton, William Francis
Acland, Francis Dyke Brace, William Craig, Herbert J (Tynemouth)
Addison, Dr. C. Brady, P. J. Crawshay-Williams, Eliot
Allen, Arthur Acland (Dumbartonshire) Brocklehurst, William B. Crean, Eugene
Allen. Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) Brunner, J. F. L. Crooks, William
Armitage, Robert Bryce, J. Annan Crumley, Patrick
Arnold, Sydney Buckmaster, Stanley O. Cullinan, John
Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert Henry Burke, E. Haviland Dalziel, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy)
Baker, Harold T. (Accrington) Burns, Rt. Hon, John Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)
Baker, Joseph Allen (Finsbury, E.) Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney C. (Poplar) Davies, Timothy (Lines., Louth)
Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) Byles, Sir William Pollard Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.)
Baring, Sir Godfrey (Barnstaple) Carr-Gomm, H. W. Dawes, J. A.
Barlow, Sir John Emmott (Somerset) Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) De Forest, Baron
Barnes, George N. Cawley, H. T. (Heywood) Delany, William
Barton, William Chancellor, H. G. Denman, Hon. R. D.
Beale, Sir William Phipson Chapple, Dr. William Allen Devlin, Joseph
Beauchamp, Sir Edward Clancy, John Joseph Dewar, Sir J. A.
Beck, Arthur Cecil Clough, William Dickinson, W. H.
Bethel1, Sir John Henry Collins, Godfrey P. (Greenock) Dillon, John
Black, Arthur W. Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) Donelan, Captain A.
Boland, John Pius Compton-Rickett, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Doris, William
Booth, Frederick Handel Condon, Thomas Joseph Duffy, William J.
Bowerman, C. W. Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)
Duncan, J. Hastings (Yorks, Otiey) Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) Lardner, James Carrige Rushe Redmond, William (Clare, E.)
Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rld, Cockerm'th) Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.)
Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) Leach, Charles Richardson, Albion (Peckham)
Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) Levy, Sir Maurice Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven)
Esslemont, George Birnie Lewis, John Herbert Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Falconer, James Lough, Rt. Ron. Thomas Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Farrell, James Patrick Low, Sir F. (Norwich) Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs)
Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles Lundon, T. Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford)
Frens, Rt. Hon. Thomas Robinson Lynch, A. A. Robinson, Sidney
Firench, Peter Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)
Field, William Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Burghs) Roche, Augustine (Louth)
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward McGhee, Richard Roe, Sir Thomas
Fitzgibbon, John Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J. Rowlands, James
Flavin, Michael Joseph Macpherson, James Ian Rowntree, Arnold
George, Rt. Hon. David Lloyd Mac Veagh, Jeremiah Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter
Gilhooly, James M' Callum, Sir John M. Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W.
Gill, A. H. M' Curdy, C. A. Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland)
Ginnell, L. M' Kean, John Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)
Gladstone, W. G. C. Mc Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald Scanlan, Thomas
Glanville, H. J. M' Laren, Hon. H. D. (Leics.) Schwann, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles E.
Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford M' Laren, Hon. F. W. S. (Lincs., Spalding) Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton)
Goldstone, Frank Manfield, Harry Sheehy, David
Griffith, Ellis Jones Markham, Sir Arthur Basil Sherwell, Arthur James
Guest, Hon. Major C. H. C. (Pembroke) Marks, Sir George Croydon Shortt, Edward
Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) Marshall, Arthur Harold Simon, Sir John Allsebrook
Guiney, Patrick Martin, J. Smith, Albert (Lancs., Clitheroe)
Gulland, John William Masterman, Rt. Hon. C. F. G. Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim)
Gwynne, Stephen Lucius (Galway) Meagher, Michael Snowden, Philip
Hackett, J. Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Hall, Frederick (Normanton) Menzies, Sir Walter Spicer, Rt. Hon. Sir Albert
Hancock, John George Millar, James Duncan Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N. W.)
Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis (Rossendale) Molloy, Michael Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West)
Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) Molteno, Percy Alport Sutherland, J. E.
Hardie, J. Keir Morison, Hector Sutton, John E.
Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds) Morton, Alpheus Cleophas Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) Muldoon, John Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) Munro, R. Taylor, Thomas (Bolton)
Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, W.) Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. Tennant, Harold John
Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.) Nannetti, Joseph P. Thomas, James Henry
Haslam, James (Derbyshire) Nicholson, Sir Charles N. (Doncaster) Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)
Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry Nolan, Joseph Thorne, William (West Ham)
Hayden, John Patrick Norton, Captain Cecil W. Toulmin, Sir George
Hayward, Evan Nugent, Sir Walter Richard Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Hazleton, Richard O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander
Healy, Maurice (Cork) O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) Verney, Sir Harry
Hemmerde, Edward George O'Doherty, Philip Wadsworth, J.
Henderson, Arthur (Durham) O'Donnell, Thomas Walsh, Stephen (Lancs., Ince)
Henry, Sir Charies Ogden, Fred Walton, Sir Joseph
Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) O'Grady, James Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)
Higham, John Sharp O'Keliy, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton)
Hinds, John O'Maliey, William Wardle, George J.
Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) Waring, Walter
Hodge, John O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Hogge, James Myles O'Shee, James John Webb, H.
Holmes, Daniel Turner O'Sullivan, Timothy White, J. Dundas (Glas., Tradeston)
Holt, Richard Durning Outhwaite, R. L. White, Sir Luke (Yorks, E. R.)
Home, C. Silvester (Ipswich) Palmer, Godfrey Mark White, Patrick (Heath, North)
Howard, Hon. Geoffrey Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) Whittaker, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas P.
Hughes, Spencer Leigh Pearce, William (Limehouse) Whyte, A. F. (Perth)
Illingworth, Percy H. Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) Wiles, Thomas
Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus Phillips, John (Longford, S.) Wilkie, Alexander
Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) Pointer, Joseph Williams, John (Glamorgan)
Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthen)
Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) Power, Patrick Joseph Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.)
Jones, Leif Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Words., N)
Jones, William S. Glyn- (Stepney) Price, Sir R. J. (Norfolk, E.) Wilson. W. T. (Westhoughton)
Jowett, Frederick William Primrose, Hon. Neil James Weed, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glas.)
Joyce, Michael Pringle, William M. R. Young, Samuel (Cavan. E.)
Keating, Matthew Radford, G. H. Young, W. (Perthshire, E.)
Kellaway, Frederick George Raffan, Peter Wilson Yoxall, Sir James Henry
Kennedy, Vincent Paul Raphael, Sir Herbert H.
Kilbride, Denis Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (South Shields) TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— Mr.
King, J. Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) Wedgwood Benn and Mr. W. Jones.
Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. (Devon, S. Molton) Reddy, M.
NOES
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Baker, Sir R. L. (Dorset, N.) Barnston, Harry
Aitken, Sir William Max Balcarres, Lord Barrie, H. T.
Amery, L. C. M. S. Baldwin, Stanley Bathurst, Hon. A. B. (Glouc., E.)
Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (City, Lend) Bathurst, C. (Wilts, Wilton)
Ashley, W. W. Banbury, Sir Frederick George Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks
Baird, J. L. Barlow, Montague (Salford, South) Beckett, Hon Gervase
Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) Hamersley, Alfred St. George Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)
Bennett-Goldney, Francis Hamilton; Lord C. J. (Kensington, S.) Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington)
Beresford, Lord C. Hamilton, Marquess of (Londonderry) Peel, Captain R. F.
Bird, A. Hardy, Rt. Hon. Laurence Perkins, Walter F.
Blair, Reginald Harris, Henry Percy Pole-Carew, Sir R.
Boscawen, Sir Arthur S. T. Griffith- Harrison-Broadley, H. B. Pollock, Ernest Murray
Boyle, William (Norfolk, Mid) Helmsley, Viscount Pretyman, Ernest George
Boyton, James Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon) Pryce-Jones, Colonel E.
Bridgeman, W. Clive Hewins, William Albert Samuel Quilter, Sir William Eley C.
Bull, Sir William James Hickman, Colonel Thomas E. Randles, Sir John S.
Burdett-Coutts, W. Hill, Sir Clement L. Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel
Burn, Colonel C. R Hills, John Waller Rawson, Col. Richard H.
Butcher, John George Hill-Wood, Samuel Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. (Dublin Univ.) Hoare, S. J. G. Rolleston, Sir John
Carlile, Sir Edward Hildred Hohler, G. F. Ronaldshay, Earl of
Cassel, Felix Hope, Harry (Bute) Rothschild, Lionel de
Castlereagh, Viscount Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) Rutherford, Watson (L'pool., W. Derby)
Cator, John Houston, Robert Paterson Salter, Arthur Clavell
Cautley, H. S Hume-Williams, Wm. Ellis Samuel, Sir Harry (Norwood)
Cave, George Hunter, Sir C. R. Sanders, Robert Arthur
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Ingleby, Holcombe Sanderson, Lancelot
Cecil, Lord R. (Herts, Hitchin) Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, East) Smith, Harold (Warrington)
Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. Jessel, Captain H. M. Spear, Sir John Ward
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. A. (Worcr.)) Joynson-Hicks, William Stanler, Beville
Chambers, James Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk)
Clay, Capt. H. H. Spender Kerry, Earl of Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston)
Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.) Kimber, Sir Henry Staveley-Hill, Henry
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford Stewart, Gershom
Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) Larmor, Sir J. Swift, Rigby
Craik, Sir Henry Lawson, Hon. H. (T. H'mts, Mile End) Sykes, Alan John (Ches., Knutsford)
Crichton-Stuart, Lord Ninlan Lee, Arthur Hamilton Talbot, Lord E.
Cripps, Sir C. A. Lewisham, Viscount Terrell, George (Wilts, N. W.)
Croft, H. P. Locker-Lampson, G. (Salisbury) Terrell, Henry (Gloucester)
Dalziel, D. (Brixton) Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Down, North)
Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott Lonsdale, Sir John Brownlee Thynne, Lord A.
Dixon, C. H. Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. A. (S. Geo., Han. S.) Touche, George Alexander
Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. Lyttelton, Hon. J. C. (Droitwich) Tullibardine, Marquess of
Faber, George Denison (Clapham) MacCaw, Wm. J. MacGeagh Valentia, Viscount
Fell, Arthur Macmaster, Donald Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Fetherstonhaugh, Godfrey Magnus, Sir Philip Wheler, Granville C. H.
Finlay, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert Mason, James F. (Windsor) White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport)
Flannery, Sir J. Fortescue Meysey-Thompson, E. C. Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Forster, Henry William Middlemore, John Throgmorton Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud
Gardner, Ernest Mildmay, Francis Bingham Wilson, A. Stanley (Yorks, E. R.)
Gastrell, Major W. Houghton Mills, Hon. Charles Thomas Wood, John (Stalybridge)
Gibbs, G. A. Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) Worthington-Evans, L.
Gilmour, Captain John Mount, William Arthur Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart
Goldman, C. S. Neville, Reginald J. N. Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Gordon, John (Londonderry, South) Newdegate, F. A. Yate, Colonel C. E.
Greene, W. R. Newman, John R. P. Younger, Sir George
Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) Newton, Harry Kottingham
Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr.
Hall, Fred (Dulwich) Nield, Herbert Fletcher and Mr. R. Thompson.
Hall, Marshall (L'pool, E. Toxteth) Norton-Griffiths, J.