HC Deb 24 November 1911 vol 31 cc1760-3

(1) For the purposes of this Part of this Act umpires and insurance officers shall be appointed by the Board of Trade, subject to the consent of the Treasury as to number, and the insurance officers shall be appointed to act for such areas as the Board direct.

(2) The Board of Trade may appoint such other officers, inspectors, and servants, for the purposes of this Part of this Act as the Board may, with the sanction of the Treasury, determine, and there shall be paid out of moneys provided by Parliament to the umpires and insurance officers and to such other officers, inspectors, and servants such salaries or remuneration as the Treasury may determine; and any expenses incurred by the Board of Trade in carrying this Part of this Act into effect to such amount as may be sanctioned by the Treasury shall be defrayed out of moneys provided by Parliament:

Provided that one-tenth of the receipts, other than advances by the Treasury, paid into the unemployment fund on income account shall, in accordance with regulations made by the Treasury, be applied as an appropriation in aid of money provided by Parliament for the purpose of such salaries, remuneration, and expenses.

Sir J. SIMON

I beg to move, in Subsection (2) to leave out the word "umpires" ["the umpires and the insurance officers"], and to insert instead thereof the word "umpire."

Mr. HARRY LAWSON

Will these names be laid on the Table of the House of Commons, or will any statement be made?

Sir J. SIMON

I do not think I can promise that.

Mr. HARRY LAWSON

Is the umpire to be a paid officer?

Sir J. SIMON

Yes.

Mr. BUXTON

Until a Bill is actually through it is very difficult to give the name of the person who is likely to be appointed. Perhaps the hon. Member will allow me just to consider the point, and then, perhaps, I can give him an answer on Third Reading.

Sir F. LOWE

I should like to ask whether he will be exclusively employed on this work, or whether he will be a man engaged in other employment as well. It seems to me that the work for the umpire and for the referees too will be rather intermittent. I should like to know whether they are supposed to occupy the whole of their time over this business, because sometimes, when trade is prosperous, I should think they would not be at all fully occupied.

Mr. BUXTON

I think at first the umpire would be very fully occupied. Our present idea is to have a salary and let him appoint such staff as he requires.

Mr. BONAR LAW

I really think it is very desirable the conditions with regard to the appointment of the umpire should be known before the Bill goes through. There is a suspicion abroad sometimes that such posts as these are given to people who are not quite suitable for them, and I think it would simplify matters if we had some information.

Mr. BARNES

I cordially support the hon. Gentleman who has just spoken, and I have a personal motive in so doing. I am at the present moment receiving letters from aspirants for these jobs, and I do not want to be bothered with any more of them. I hope the President at the earliest possible moment will say these jobs will not be by patronage, but by competition.

The CHAIRMAN

This is really out of order.

Question, "That the word 'umpires' stand part of the Clause," put, and negatived.

Question, "That the word 'umpires' be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

Further Amendment made: In Sub-section (2) after the word "that" ["provided that one-tenth of the receipts"], to insert the words "such sum as the Treasury may direct not exceeding."

Mr. HARRY LAWSON

I wish to ask how the insurance officers are to be appointed. It seems to me very important that the President of the Board of Trade should not be subject to the sort of pressure which is sometimes applied by applicants who have no special qualification. I should like him, shortly, if he can tell us in a few words, to say whether the officers will have to qualify in any way, either as members of the Society of Actuaries or some society which has an examination test itself, or whether they will have to pass some examination, or in what way they will be appointed?

Mr. BUXTON

I have been in communication already with the Civil Service Commissioners with reference to the matter, and hope to be able to come to an arrangement with them whereby these appointments, or the great bulk of them, will be carried out in co-operation with the Commissioners.

Mr. HARRY LAWSON

Will not the hon. Gentleman say that the whole of the appointments will be carried out in that way, because the moment it is known that there are a great number of berths of this sort being declared open, many people will try to get them, and he had better make up his mind to a hard and fast rule.

Mr. BONAR LAW

This is, I think, an extremely important question, and I considered this morning whether it would be possible to put down an Amendment to make it perfectly plain that jobs of this kind are no longer to be given for any reason unless the applicant is suitable. It seems that a Government which is in office now has almost as much to give away as American Governments used to have, and that is a deplorable state of things that ought to end. If the President is not able to make it perfectly plain that there will be no political patronage in connection with these appointments, I shall certainly take steps to have the question raised, and, if possible, settled so far as this Committee is concerned.

Mr. BUXTON

I am entirely in accord with the hon. Gentleman. As far as my party and myself are personally concerned, that is the view we hold very strongly. I have already said that with regard to the bulk of these appointments, we shall carry them out in co-operation with the Civil Service Commissioners. I cannot give a definite pledge with regard to the others, but I can assure him that the principles we hold are entirely in accord with what he has said, and I repeat I, personally entirely agree with him that political patronage is a bad thing for everybody concerned.

Mr. H. LAWSON

We are to understand, then, from the President of the Board of Trade, that these appointments will not be treated as political spoils.

Mr. BUXTON

As far as I am personally concerned, I can give my absolute pledge with regard to that.

Question, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.