§ Mr. BUTCHERasked whether domestic servants will be entitled, in return for their contributions under the National Insurance Bill, to receive any weekly payments during sickness or disablement so long as they are provided by their employer with board and lodging; and whether, in order to entitle domestic servants to receive weekly payments during sickness or disablement, it would be necessary for their employer to refuse to provide them with board and lodging?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEA domestic servant provided with board and lodging by his employer is only excluded from sickness benefit so long as he is so provided.
§ Mr. BUTCHERWill the right hon. Gentleman consider the propriety of 438 allowing domestic servants sickness and disablement benefit while they are still provided with board and lodging by their employer?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI think that is a matter which requires much more careful consideration than I can give to it in the course of an answer to a question. The hon. Member must remember that everything of that sort which is added means a depression of benefits all round. There is a certain sum available, and it is for the Committee to consider how it is to be distributed. If you take more for domestic servants, there is less available for other purposes. I do not close my mind to that suggestion, but it is a matter which requires careful consideration from both points of view.
§ Mr. SNOWDENWill the domestic servant in sickness have to pay accumulation of arrears?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEIf she is in receipt of a salary during her illness, of course there will be no arrears, because the deduction from her wages goes on during that period.
§ Mr. SNOWDENWill the arrears afterwards have to be paid?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI do not think the hon. Gentleman understands. There will be no arrears accumulating during the period of illness. That is one of the differences between our scheme and the ordinary friendly society's scheme.
Mr. WORTHINGTON-EVANSCan the right hon. Gentleman say how many domestic servants lie estimates will be cut out of benefit by this provision?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI do not quite understand the question. No domestic servant will be cut out of benefit at all. She will be entitled to the benefit if she is in need of it. This is a Bill to make provision for sickness, but, if there is already provision, there is no real reason to take advantage of it.
Mr. WORTHINGTON-EVANSI am afraid the right hon. Gentleman did not understand my question. There are certain domestic servants who will be provided for by their masters and mistresses. Can he say how many of those who are insured he estimates will be so provided for? Would not the actuaries have taken that into account in settling the benefit?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI do not think so, because there is a Common Law liability in cases of that sort. So long as they receive board and lodging on the premises the master must provide for them. If they are not in benefit, and if they are not receiving board and lodging then the Government scheme comes into operation. There is therefore no gap at all.
§ Mr. BUTCHERIn view of the great imporance of this subject, will the right hon. Gentleman before the Committee stage of this Bill obtain an estimate as to the probable cost of the amendment which I have suggested, namely, allowing servants to obtain the sickness and disablement benefit during the time board and lodging are provided?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI should like to have that in rather more precise terms to submit to the actuaries. If an actuarial question is asked, the question ought to be very precisely put. If the hon. Gentleman means that, in addition to their salary, they are also to receive 10s. per week because they are ill and not able to render service, certainly I will submit it to the actuaries, but I think he had better reflect.