HC Deb 01 December 1911 vol 32 cc902-4

(1) A Court of Referees for the purposes of this Part of this Act shall consist of one or more members chosen to represent employers, with an equal number of members chosen to represent workmen, and a chairman appointed by the Board of Trade.

(2) Panels of persons chosen to represent employers and workmen respectively shall be constituted by the Board of Trade for such districts and such trades or groups of trades as the Board may think fit, and the members of a Court of Referees to be chosen to represent employers and workmen shall be selected from those panels in the prescribed manner.

(3) Subject as aforesaid, the constitution of Courts of Referees shall be determined by regulations made by the Board of Trade.

(4) The regulations of the Board of Trade may further provide for the reference to referees chosen from the panels constituted under this Section, for consideration and advice, of questions bearing upon the administration of this Part of this Act, and for the holding of meetings of referees for the purpose.

(5) The Board of Trade may pay such remuneration to the chairman and other members of a Court of Referees, and such travelling and other allowances (including compensation for loss of time) to persons required to attend before any such Court, and such other expenses in connection with any referees, as the Board, with the sanction of the Treasury, determine, and any such payments shall be treated as expenses incurred by the Board of Trade in carrying this Part of this Act into effect.

Mr. HARRY LAWSON

I beg to move, after the word "chosen" ["members chosen to represent employers"], to insert the words "by such employers' associations or other bodies of employers as the Board of Trade may decide and, in default of such choice being made within such period as the Board of Trade may by regulations decide, then chosen by the Board of Trade."

The President of the Board of Trade will see that the object is that the wishes of the employers should be consulted in this matter. I have no doubt that the employers have full confidence in the Board of Trade, but they have probably more confidence in themselves, and would no doubt wish to have the nomination of their representatives on the court of nominees. I do not suppose the President of the Board of Trade will disapprove of this proposal, and I daresay he will agree to put in some words to enable the employers to have the nomination of their representatives.

Sir J. SIMON

I would point out to the hon. Gentleman that if he desires to introduce into the Bill provisions of this sort, of course we shall also have to introduce provisions of a corresponding character for the workmen. There is no objection to that if it can be done, conveniently on the face of the Bill, but I suggest that the right thing to do is to give the Board of Trade certain discretion, because I am sure both employers and workmen will bear me out when I say that the Board of Trade is always extremely anxious to keep in touch with employers and workmen. This Amendment covers unorganised as well as organised labour.

Mr. HARRY LAWSON

This is to be a permanent Statute.

Sir J. SIMON

It is to be a permanent Statute, but I do not think the hon. Gentleman quite followed what I said. If we provide, on the face of the Statute that employers are to have this right, we must also provide how other members are to be nominated. May I point out the difficulty as between organised and unorganised trades. I hope the time will come when unorganised labour will be reduced to a minimum or will disappear altogether, but in the meantime it exists in these trades, and I do not think we can put on this permanent Statue a provision which would not be equally available for all time. The Board of Trade always shows itself anxious to keep in touch with employers and workmen, and I think it is better to leave the Bill as it stands on the distinct understanding that the Board of Trade will take all proper opportunities to obtain the views of the different parties.

Mr. TYSON WILSON

I hope the President of the Board of Trade will give some more attention to this Amendment. I speak with some experience and with some knowledge of the views of workmen, and I can state that they are not entirely satisfied with the selection made by the Board of Trade in other spheres in connection with questions of this kind. I am quite satisfied that if the workmen directly affected had the opportunity of selecting their own representatives under the Clause, more satisfaction would be given. The same argument applies to the employers. I am satisfied that the Board of Trade would be well advised if they directly consulted the trade unions which are directly affected by this part of the Bill.

Mr. HARRY LAWSON

After the assurance given by the Solicitor-General I do not wish to press the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.