§ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (Mr. Lloyd George)I beg to move, "That, until the Government Orders are disposed of, so much of Standing Order No. 1 (Sittings of the House) as relates to the interruption of Business at Eleven of the clock, the right of objection at that hour, and the Adjournment of the House at half-past Eleven of the clock, be suspended to-day and to-morrow."
§ Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINThe Chancellor of the Exchequer intends, I believe, to make a statement about business, and this probably would be a convenient time to do so.
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEYes, today we shall take the Second Reading of the Appropriation Bill and of the Public Works 1936 Loans Bill, to be followed by the Committee stages of the Telephone Transfer Bill and the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill. Some of the smaller Orders we shall also take.
To-morrow the Committee stages of the Appropriation Bill and Public Works Loans Bill will be taken. Then we hope to conclude the Copyright Bill and take the remaining stages of the Government Bills on the Paper, with the exception of the Railway Companies (Accounts and Returns) Bill and the Pilotage Bill.
On Friday the House will meet at Twelve o'clock as usual. The first Orders will be the Third Reading of the Appropriation Bill and the Public Works Loans Bill. There will then be the Adjournment Motion. Some time during the afternoon there will be a Royal Commission to give assent to the measures that have been passed.
When the House resumes on 34th October there will remain for consideration the Insurance Bill, Finance Bill, Shops Bill, Coal Mines Bill, Naval Prize Bill, Scottish Land Bill, House Letting and Rating (Scotland) Bill, and some of the smaller measures that appear on the Paper.
1937 I hope that none of these need be regarded as acutely controversial, and that we may make considerable progress during the few weeks that we hope may be sufficient to clear off the business.
§ Mr. CASSELI hope the right hon. Gentleman will reconsider the question of the Copyright Bill being put down tomorrow. It is a measure with reference to which there are four or five pages of Amendments on the Paper, and some of these Amendments raise questions of a highly controversial character and of great importance. This Bill has only been considered in the Committee upstairs, and other Members interested in the question have had no opportunity of expressing their views upon these points. Nothing would be gained by putting the Bill down to-morrow because it could not become law before the end of the Session, so that whether the Report stage is taken tomorrow or not, the Bill will not become law any earlier. It is only fair and right that a Bill of this character should not be taken in the last days of this portion of the Session when many Members are away. I may say, personally, I have one Amendment alone which is bound to take up a considerable amount of time in discussion as it is of great importance. It deals with whether the Bill should be made retrospective in certain respects, and the Clause with which it deals affects a good many musical instruments, and the discussion of the Amendment is one that might last four or five hours. I suggest to the right hon. Gentleman that as a matter of fairness, the Bill should not be taken to-morrow. I am not opposed to the Bill as a whole, but I think there ought to be fair opportunity for discussing this important matter, and more especially when it is borne in mind that the Bill could not possibly become law before this Adjournment.
§ Mr. HARRY LAWSONI should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he can tell the House what business would be taken first upon the re-assembling for the Autumn Session?
Mr. PEELMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether the Government propose to drop the Second Hague Conference Convention Bill?
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYI have no objection whatever to the programme of the right 1938 hon. Gentleman, and I only rise to ask for some information. I want to know whether among small Bills which he proposes to take to-night he means to include the Resident Magistrates (Belfast) Bill? It is a Bill of a most contentious character, which proposes to give an Imperial officer a salary and a pension out of Imperial and local funds. I am strongly opposed to that, I do not object to his getting a pension out of an Imperial fund, but to make him an officer half paid out of Imperial funds and half paid out of local funds, is most objectionable, and I hope the right hon. Gentleman will inform us that that Bill will not be taken to-night.
§ Sir WILLIAM ANSONI cannot but think my hon. and learned Friend (Mr. Cassel) over-estimated the difficulties attending the discussion of the Copyright Bill. It was discussed very carefully and at great length in the Standing Committee. There were two outstanding questions of principle, but they have since narrowed down to a comparatively small compass, and I do not think they would take long. I think it would be a pity to run the risk of sending this Bill over to an Autumn Session.
§ Mr. T. P. O'CONNORMay I also say that I understand very large concessions have been made in connection with this Bill, and I think the hon. and learned Member's is the only outstanding point now. The Bill was very carefully considered, and there were an unusual number of sittings in the Committee upstairs. We have already had a considerable number of sittings here, and I can assure the hon. Member that the remaining discussion need not take more than an hour or an hour and a-half.
§ Sir PHILIP MAGNUSMay I ask whether it is proposed to take the Committee stage of the Education (Administrative Provisions) No. 2 Bill to-night or tomorrow?
§ Mr. WALTER LONGThe right hon. Gentleman was asked what business will be taken on 24th October and for the early days of that week. He indicated that there would be some difficulty in making an announcement now, but I think it would be for the convenience of the House if the right hon. Gentleman would arrange to have a statement made in some public way at the earliest possible moment.
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI think that is a very reasonable request. I cannot make the announcement now, but I hope to be able to do so to-morrow. With regard to the question of the hon. Member (Sir Philip Magnus) I understand that that Bill will be taken to-morrow, and not to-night. As to the Bill referred to by the hon. Member for North-East Cork (Mr. T. M. Healy) we received no notice of objection to it, and we did intend to take the Bill to-night.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYWill you go on with it?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEWe will communicate with the hon. Member. This is the first time we have heard of any objection to it.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYSeveral Members on your own side object to it as well as I do, because it mixes up Imperial with local funds.
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEWe will keep that in mind. We simply want to make progress with Bills of an uncontroversial character. With regard to the Copyright Bill, I hope the hon. Gentleman will not press his objection, especially after what has been said by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Oxford University. I understand there has been an amount of compromise; at any rate, very considerable concessions have been made with a view to conciliating opposition. I do say it has conciliated the opposition altogether, but it went a long way to do so. There will be quite adequate time for discussion; the first orders are the Committee stage of the Appropriation Bill, not a debate able Motion, and the Public Works Loans Bill. Therefore, there will be plenty of time to-morrow to discuss any question which the hon. Member may wish to raise. I hope, therefore, that he will not press us to overload the Autumn Session with work of this kind when we can get rid of it now. I do not think it is in the interest of anybody to crowd the Autumn Session. The Second Hague Convention Bill is one of the small Bills which we intend to deal with in the Autumn Session.
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEYes.
§ Mr. CASSELI must continue to press my opposition in regard to the Copyright Bill.
§ Mr. C. E. PRICEMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will consider the advisability of taking the Scotch Land Bill in the first days of the Autumn Session, which would give several Members an opportunity of taking longer holidays?
§ Mr. ANNAN BRYCEThe Chancellor of the Exchequer said nothing about the Borough Police (Scotland) Amendment Bill. I do not know whether this is one of the small Bills he proposes to take in the Autumn Session or before we separate now.
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI understand it will be amongst the Bills that will be dealt with effectively in the Autumn Session. With regard to the statement made by the hon. Member for Edinburgh Central (Mr. Price), I understand that representations have been made to the Government that it would be inconvenient to put down the Scotch Land Bill at too early a day in the Autumn Session.
§ Lord BALCARRESI should like to ask you a question, Mr. Speaker, with reference to a notice on the Paper standing in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury. I presume the Adjournment of the House will be moved immediately after the completion of Government business. I therefore would like to know if the Motion standing in the name of my hon. Friend could be moved in the event of the adjournment being carried in advance at the end of Government business. My hon. Friend considers this matter very important, and is very anxious to bring it before the House, and should the House rise early at a reasonable hour to-night will this Motion be shut out?
§ Mr. SPEAKERAssuming Government business goes on beyond eleven o'clock the Government orders will then be run through, and other orders will probably be objected to in the ordinary way, and the Motion of the hon. Member for Newbury will come on, but if the Government interpose, and move the adjournment then the hon. Member will be shut out.
§ Question put.
§ The House divided: Ayes, 176; Noes, 75.
1943| Division No. 338.] | AYES. | [12.15 a.m. |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Fleming, Valentine | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Gardner, Ernest | Stewart, Gershom |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Gibbs, George Abraham | Talbot, Lord Edmund |
| Baird, John Lawrence | Goldman, Charles Sydney | Thynne, Lord Alexander |
| Balcarres, Lord | Goldsmith, Frank | Valentia, Viscount |
| Boyton, James | Hohler, Gerald Fitzroy | Worthington-Evans, Laming |
| Bridgeman, William Clive | Kirkwood, John H. M. | |
| Burn, Col. Charles Rosdew | Peto, Basil Edward | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. Mount and Major Henderson. |
| Campion, William Robert | Pryce-Jones, Col. Edward |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Gretton, John | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) | Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Pease, Rt. Hon. J. A. (Rotherham) |
| Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.) | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. L. (Rossendale) | Pirie, Duncan Vernon |
| Beck, Arthur Cecil | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Benn, W. (T. Hamlets, St. Geo.) | Harmsworth, C. B. (Beds, Luton) | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Bentham, George Jackson | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Rainy, Adam Rolland |
| Bowerman, Charles W. | Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Brunner, John F. L. | Haworth, Sir Arthur A. | Robertson, John M. (Tyneside) |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Hayward, Evan | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter |
| Carlile, Sir Edward Hildred | Hodge, John | Scott, A. MacCallum (Glasgow) |
| Cassel, Felix | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey W. A. | Seely, Rt. Hon. Colonel |
| Cave, George | Hughes, Spencer Leigh | Shortt, Edward |
| Cawley, H. T. (Lancs., Heywood) | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus Daniel | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook |
| Chancellor, Henry G. | Jones, Leif (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, W.) |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Tennant, Harold John |
| Clough, William | King, Joseph | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Crooks, William | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Davies, David (Montgomeryshire) | Leach, Charles | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) |
| Dawes, J. A. | Lewis, John Herbert | Waring, Walter |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Macpherson, James Ian | Warner, Sir T. Courtenay T. |
| Edwards, A. C. (Glamorgan, E.) | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | White, James Dundas (Glasgow) |
| Elibank, Rt. Hon. Master of | Marshall, Arthur Harold | Wiles, Thomas |
| Falconer, James | Muldoon, John | |
| Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward | Munro, Robert | |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Murray, Capt. Hon. Arthur C. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Illingworth and Mr. Gulland. |
| Greenwood, G. G. (Peterborough) | Neilson, Francis |