§ (1) The licences specified in the First Schedule to this Act shall be in such form as the Commissioners direct, and any such licence may be granted on payment of the appropriate duty by any officer of Customs and Excise authorised to grant the licence by the Commissioners.
§ (2) Manufacturers' licences shall expire on the thirtieth day of September and wholesale dealers' licences shall expire on the thirtieth day of June in every year, and any other licences specified in the First Schedule to this Act which are to be taken out annually shall expire in England and Ireland on the thirtieth day of September and in Scotland on the twenty-eighth day of May in each year.
§ Amendments made: In Sub-section (2), after the word "shall" ["to be taken out annually shall expire"], to insert the words "subject as hereinafter provided."—[Mr. Herbert Samuel.]
§ At the end of Sub-section (2), to insert the words: "Provided that where a retailer's off-licence for the sale of any liquor is held by the holder of a wholesale dealer's licence for the sale of the same liquor, the retailer's licence shall expire on the same day as that on which the wholesale dealer's licence expires."—[Mr. Herbert Samuel.]
§ Sir SAMUEL EVANS moved to add at the end of the words last inserted:
§ "(3) Where the duty payable by any person under this Part of this Act on any licence exceeds the sum of sixty pounds the licence may, at the option of the licence-holder, be granted upon payment of one-half only of the duty so payable, and in that case the other half of the duty shall be paid immediately after the expiration of six months from the commencement of the year for which the licence was granted, or, in case the licence was granted after the month of September, on the first day of March next after the commencement of the year for which the licence was granted, and in default of payment of the second half of the duty the licence shall cease to be in force.
1095§ "This provision shall apply to two or more licences granted in respect of one set of premises as it applies to a single licence."
§ This Amendment carries out an undertaking which I gave in Committee. The point of it is this. Some people may desire to pay the duty in two instalments instead of one. With reference to the dates which have been inserted they have been kept as far apart as possible, but the instalments must both come into one financial year. I see some Amendments are on the Paper to reduce the duty, which may be paid in instalments of £50. I cannot accept that Amendment, and must adhere to the figure of £50.
§ Mr. GRETTON moved to leave out the words "sixty pounds" in the proposed Amendment and to insert instead thereof the words "duty which would have been payable in respect of the same or the corresponding licence before the passing of this Act."
§ The object of the Amendment is to give some relief to the smaller houses. I quite admit that the Amendment of the Solicitor-General meets the case of the larger houses under this Act, but I think the smaller houses are also deserving of some consideration. The smaller houses are within the hands of small men, and they should receive as considerate treatment as the larger one or as the houses which are the property of syndicates. It is for that purpose I move the Amendment standing in my name.
§ Mr. CAVEI beg to second the Amendment. In the case of a relatively small house now it is a small duty, but they will have to pay a very much larger duty under this Bill. Therefore, it is just as important in their case that they should be allowed to pay by instalments as in the case of the larger houses. This point I know would be met by reducing £60 to £20 or £30, but unless that is done it is obvious that to a man carrying on quite a small trade, who may not be making more than enough to keep himself and his family, it is a serious matter to provide even £30 or £40, or may be £50 more than he has had to pay in the past.
§ Sir SAMUEL EVANSThe Amendment which I have moved was pressed upon the Government because a large amount of money would have to be paid in a lump sum. It is quite true that it is a question of degree and of the actual person with whom you are dealing. To one person 1096 £80 is as much as £800 is to another, and that was the main reason why I was pressed to move this Amendment to my Amendment. I do not think any real hardship will arise, and as a matter of convenience we must stick to the Amendment, as we have now recommended it to the House. Take a case where there is an increase of duty from £8 or £8 10s. to £10. Now the £8 has to be paid down, but because there is an increase of £1 or £2 the effect of the Amendment will be that only half of the increased duty will be paid down and the balance will be paid at the end of the year. This would add enormously to the work and would not produce anything like an equivalent of convenience to the people affected. In many cases it would do away altogether with the payment which is now made.
§ Mr. JOYNSON-HICKSI believe the Government are really sticking to their Amendment because they hope the effect of it may be that the smaller house will not get the benefit which the larger house is going to receive under this Amendment. The smaller house may come under the swingeing duty which some hon. Members desire to impose in order that they may be crushed out.
§ Sir SAMUEL EVANSThat is not the Amendment.
§ Mr. JOYNSON-HICKSNo; the Amendment is to give them some possible chance of not being crushed out. You are granting a privilege to the larger house and to the rich men, and this Amendment is intended to extend the same privilege to the small house and the poor man. I cannot see why a man who is going to pay £60 Licence Duty and has a large house should have this privilege when a small country beerhouse with a small trade will not be allowed to have the same right of paying his Licence Duty by instalments in the same way as the well-to-do publican will be permitted to do. The object of the Bill is to place a larger duty on the publican. The effect of this proposal will be to send the smaller man to the money-lender to enable him to pay this sudden increase of duty. If it is fair to remove this inconvenience from the well-to-do publican, with a large house paying a large duty, there is absolutely no reason why the same privilege should not be accorded to the smaller house doing a smaller trade.
§ Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the proposed Amendment."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 151; Noes, 53.
1089| Division No. 852.] | AYES. | [8.0 p.m. |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, W.) | Mason, James F. (Windsor) |
| Arkwright, John Stanhope | Gooch, Henry Cubitt (Peckham) | Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield) |
| Balcarres, Lord | Guinness, Hon. W. E. (B. S. Edm'ds.) | Oddy, John James |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (City, Lond.) | Hamilton, Marquess of | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford) | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.) | Harrison-Broadley, H. B. | Peel, Hon. W. R. W. |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Bellairs, Carlyon | Helmsley, Viscount | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Hill, Sir Clement | Rutherford, John (Lancashire) |
| Bull, Sir William James | Hills, J. W. | Rutherford, Watson (Liverpool) |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Hunt, Rowland | Stanler, Beville |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Joynson-Hicks, William | Starkey, John R. |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H. | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staffordshire) |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Kimber, Sir Henry | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.) | King, Sir Henry Seymour (Hull) | Talbot, Rt. Hon. J. G. (Oxford Univ.) |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Lanark) |
| Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott- | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan) | Long, Rt. Hon. Walter (Dublin, S.) | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
| Faber, George Denison (York) | Lonsdale, John Brownlee | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Fletcher, J. S. | MacCaw, Wm. J. MacGeagh | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Forster, Henry William | M'Arthur, Charles | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. Gretton and Mr. Cave. |
| Gardner, Ernest | Magnus, Sir Philip | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, W. (Cork, N.E.) | Glendinning, R. G. | O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth) |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Glover, Thomas | O'Malley, William |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) |
| Agnew, George William | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Griffith, Ellis J. | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Alden, Percy | Gulland, John W. | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) |
| Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius | Radford, G. H. |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Haldane Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Raphael, Herbert H. |
| Astbury, John Meir | Hall, Frederick | Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (Gloucester) |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. L. (Rossendale) | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Richards, Thomas (W. Monmouth) |
| Barnard, E. B. | Hardle, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil) | Ridsdale, E. A. |
| Beale, W. P. | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worcester) | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Benn, W. (Tower Hamlets, St. Geo.) | Hart-Davies, T. | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Bennett, E. N. | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Robinson, S. |
| Berridge, T. H. D. | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Bethell, T. B. (Essex, Maldon) | Helme, Norval Watson | Rogers, F. E. Newman |
| Boulton, A. C. F. | Henderson, J. McD. (Aberdeen, W.) | Rowlands, J. |
| Brace, William | Henry, Charles S. | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter |
| Brigg, John | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) |
| Bright, J. A. | Hobart, Sir Robert | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Brodie, H. C. | Hodge, John | Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester) |
| Brooke, Stopford | Holt, Richard Burning | Sears, J. E. |
| Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Hooper, A. G. | Seely, Colonel |
| Brunner, Rt. Hon. Sir J. T. (Cheshire) | Horniman, Emslie John | Shackleton, David James |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Sherwell, Arthur James |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Hyde, Clarendon G. | Slicock, Thomas Ball |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney Charles | Illingworth, Percy H. | Stanger, H. Y. |
| Byles, William Pollard | Isaacs, Rufus Daniel | Stanley, Hon. A. Lyulph (Cheshire) |
| Cameron, Robert | Jardine, Sir J. | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) |
| Channing, Sir Francis Allston | Johnson, John (Gateshead) | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) | Summerbell, T. |
| Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. | Laidlaw, Robert | Sutherland, J. E. |
| Clough, William | Lambert, George | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Cobbold, Felix Thornley | Lamont, Norman | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E.) |
| Compton-Rickett, Sir J. | Lay land-Barratt, Sir Francis | Toulmin, George |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich) | Villiers, Ernest Amherst |
| Cornwall. Sir Edwin A. | Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral) | Vivian, Henry |
| Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Levy, Sir Maurice | Wadsworth, J. |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David | Waring, Walter |
| Crosfield, A. H. | Lough, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Crossley, William J. | Lupton, Arnold | Waterlow, D. S. |
| Davies, David (Montgomery Co.) | Lynch, H. B. | White, J. Dundas (Dumbartonshire) |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Mackarness, Frederic C. | White, Sir Luke (York, E.R.) |
| Dobson, Thomas W. | Mallet, Charles E. | Wiles, Thomas |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Massie, J. | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Duncan, J. Hastings (York, Otley) | Menzies, Sir Walter | Wills, Arthur Walters |
| Edwards, A. Clement (Denbigh) | Middlebrook, William | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Molteno, Percy Alport | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.) |
| Essex, R. W. | Mond, A. | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestershire, N.) |
| Esslemont, George Birnie | Murray, Capt. Hon. A. C. (Kincard.) | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras) |
| Evans, Sir S. T. | Napier, T. B. | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
| Everett, R. Lacey | Nolan, Joseph | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Ferens, T. R. | Nussey, Sir Willans | |
| Findlay, Alexander | Nuttall, Harry | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Joseph Pease and Captain Norton. |
| Fuller, John Michael F. | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Division No. 853.] | AYES. | [8.35 p.m. |
| Abraham, W. (Cork, N.E.) | Glendinning, R. G. | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Glover, Thomas | Radford, G. H. |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Raphael, Herbert H. |
| Agnew, George William | Griffith, Ellis J. | Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (Gloucester) |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Gulland, John w. | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Alden, Percy | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius | Richards, Thomas (W. Monmouth) |
| Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Ridsdale, E. A. |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Hall, Frederick | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Astbury, John Meir | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. L. (Rossendale) | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Robinson, S. |
| Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worcester) | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Beale, W. P. | Hart-Davies, T. | Rogers, F. E. Newman |
| Bennett, E. N. | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Rowlands, J. |
| Berridge, T. H. D. | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter |
| Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Haworth, Arthur A. | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) |
| Boulton, A. C. F. | Helme, Norval Watson | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Brace, William | Henry, Charles S. | Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester) |
| Brigg, John | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Sears, J. E. |
| Bright, J. A. | Hobart, Sir Robert | Seely, Colonel |
| Brodie, H. C. | Hodge, John | Shackleton, David James |
| Brooke, Stopford | Holt, Richard Durning | Sherwell, Arthur James |
| Brunner, J. F. L. (Lanes., Leigh) | Hooper, A. G. | Silcock, Thomas Bali |
| Brunner, Rt. Hon. Sir J. T. (Cheshire) | Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Stanger, H. Y. |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Hyde, Clarendon G. | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Illingworth, Percy H. | Strachey, Sir Edward |
| Byles, William Pollard | Jardine, Sir J. | Summerbell, T. |
| Cameron, Robert | Johnson, John (Gateshead) | Sutherland, J. E. |
| Clough, William | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Laidlaw, Robert | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Compton-Rickett, Sir J. | Lambert, George | Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E.) |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Lamont, Norman | Toulmin, George |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis | Vivian, Henry |
| Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral) | Wadsworth, J. |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Levy, Sir Maurice | Waring, Walter |
| Crosfield, A. H. | Lupton, Arnold | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Crossley, William J. | Lynch, H. B. | Waterlow, D. S. |
| Davies, David (Montgomery Co.) | Mallet, Charles E. | White, J. Dundas (Dumbartonshire) |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Massie, J. | White, Sir Luke (York, E.R.) |
| Dobson, Thomas W. | Menzies, Sir Walter | Wiles, Thomas |
| Duckworth, Sir James | Middlebrook, William | Wilkle, Alexander |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Molteno, Percy Alport | Williamson, Sir A. |
| Duncan, J. Hastings (York, Otley) | Mond, A. | Wills, Arthur Walters |
| Edwards, A. Clement (Denbigh) | Montagu, Hon. E. S. | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Murray, Capt. Hon. A. C. (Kincard.) | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.) |
| Elibank, Master of | Napier, T. B. | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestershire, N.) |
| Essex, R. W. | Nussey, Sir Willans | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
| Esslemont, George Birnie | Nuttall, Harry | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Evans, Sir S. T. | O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth) | |
| Everett, R. Lacey | Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) | |
| Ferens, T. R. | Pollard, Dr. G. H. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Captain Norton and Mr. Fuller. |
| Fiennes, Hon. Eustace | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. | |
| Findlay, Alexander | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| NOES. | ||
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, W.) | Mason, James F. (Windsor) |
| Balcarres, Lord | Gooch, Henry Cubitt (Peckham) | Oddy, John James |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Guinness, Hon. W. E. (B. S. Edmunds) | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.) | Hamilton, Marquess of | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Bellairs, Carlyon | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford) | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
| Bull, Sir William James | Helmsley, Viscount | Rutherford, John (Lancashire) |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Hill, Sir Clement | Rutherford, Watson (Liverpool) |
| Cave, George | Hills, J. W. | Stanier, Beville |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Hunt, Rowland | Starkey, John R. |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Joynson-Hicks, William | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staffordshire) |
| Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.) | Kimber, Sir Henry | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Craik, Sir Henry | King, Sir Henry Seymour (Hull) | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Lanark) |
| Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott- | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
| Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan) | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham) | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Faber, George Denison (York) | Lonsdale, John Brownlee | |
| Fletcher, J. S. | MacCaw, Wm. J. MacGeagh | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Gretton and Mr. Arkwright. |
| Forster, Henry William | M'Arthur, Charles | |
| Gardner, Ernest | Magnus, Sir Philip | |
| Proposed words there inserted in the Bill. |