§ (1) In the application of this Part of this Act to Scotland, unless the context otherwise requires:—
§ The expression "land" does not include teinds, titles, or offices of honour, or any servitude, superiority, casualty, feu duty, or ground annual, or any-incorporeal heritable right;
801§ The expression "rent" includes yearly or other rent, toll, duty, royalty, or other reservation by the acre, the ton, or otherwise; and for the purpose of Section twenty of this Act includes feu-duty and ground annual;
§ The expression "interest" in relation to land includes the landlord's right of reversion to the subjects let on the determination of the lease, but does not include teinds, servitude, superiorities, any interest in expectancy, whether vested or not, heritable securities, bonds of provision, jointures, annuities, or other capital or annual sums, or other debts secured upon heritage, or any sporting right, or any lease thereof;
§ The expression "owner" means the fiar of the land, except that where land is let on lease for a term of which more than fifty years are unexpired, the tenant under the lease shall be deemed to be the owner, and includes an institute or heir of entail in possession, and the life-renter of land which is settled within the meaning of the Finance. Act, 1894, whether such fiar, institute, or heir of entail in possession, or life-renter is or is not sui juris;
§ The expression "freeholder" includes "fiar," "life-renter of land settled within the meaning of the Finance Act, 1894," and "institute or heir of entail in possession," and the expression "freehold" shall be construed accordingly;
§ The expression "incumbrances" includes any heritable security, or other debt or payment secured upon heritage, and the expression "incumbrancer" shall be construed accordingly;
§ "Servitudes" shall be substituted for easements and shall be deemed to include public rights;
§ "Court of Session" shall be substituted for "High Court": Provided that, for the purposes of the appeal, to the High Court under Section twenty-two hereof, the judges of the Court of Session named for the purpose of hearing appeals under the Valuation of Lands (Scotland) Acts shall be substituted for the High Court, and sheriff court shall be substituted for county court.
§ (2) Any order of a referee as to costs shall be enforceable as a recorded decree arbitral.
802§ (3) Sub-section (2) of Section two of this Act shall be construed as if after paragraph (d) thereof the following paragraph were added (that is to say):—
§ (e) where the occasion is the grant of any feu of the land or the creation of any ground annual thereon, the value of the fee simple of the land calculated on the basis of the value of the consideration for such grant or creation, by way of feu duty, ground, annual, or otherwise.
§ Where Increment Value Duty falls to be collected on a feu contract or feu charter or a contract of ground annual, it shall be paid by the person by whom or on whose behalf the feu is granted or the ground annual is created, and for the purposes of this Part of this Act that person shall be deemed to be the transferor or the transferor on sale and the contract or charter to be the instrument, and the expressions "transfer" and "transfer on sale" shall be construed accordingly.
§ The expressions "lessor" and "lessee" include a sub-lessor and sub-lessee and the heirs, executors, administrators, and assigns of a lessor and lessee respectively.
§ Drafting Amendments made.
§ Mr. YOUNGER moved, at end of Subsection (1), to insert: (2) The provisions of Section twenty of this Act (which refers to Mineral Rights Duty) shall be subject to the following modification, that is to say, that any proprietor or lessor of any minerals who is liable as such proprietor or lessor to pay any local rate in respect of such minerals shall be entitled to toe relieved in any year from the payment of Mineral Rights Duty as such proprietor or lessor up to the amount so paid by him in that year in respect of local rates.
§ This Amendment raises a very important question from the point of view of the owners in Scotland, who will be penalised in comparison with their English neighbours if some allowance is not made for the rates which they have to pay. The owners in Scotland are subject to rates rising to two or three shillings in the £, and it is not merely a hardship, but quite intolerable if some allowance is not made to them from the corpus of the annual rental for these duties which they have to pay; more particularly when you consider that the municipalities are under this Bill to receive half of this tax. I do not think that this is a concession at all. It is simply a matter of right.
803§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEI could not possibly accept this Amendment. In the first place, I have not had an opportunity of seeing what the effect of this new Amendment would be, or whether it represents a substantial deduction.
§ Mr. YOUNGERIt would be about on an average two shillings in the £, not of the duty, but of the assessable amount. On £2,000 it would be £100.
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEIt is quite impossible for me now with the time at my disposal to investigate this Amendment and its effect, as in its present form it is fundamentally different from the Amendment which was put down on the Paper. Perhaps fiscally it may not mean very much, but on the general principle I do not see why the rates should be deducted. Rates are not deducted from any other tax under this Bill or any other Bill.
§ Mr. YOUNGERThey are paid in Scotland. That is the essential difference.
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEI am dealing with Scotland. You do not deduct the rates before you arrive at Schedule A in Scotland.
§ Mr. YOUNGERA certain allowance is made for rates.
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEAll I can say is that that is very different from any other country.
§ Mr. YOUNGERThat is exactly my point.
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEI do not see why rates should be deducted in Scotland and not here for arriving at Schedule A, and if they are not deducted for Schedule A I do not see why they should be deducted for arriving at the Mineral Rights Duty. In paying Land Tax in this country these properties which pay rates are on exactly the same basis as those which do not It does not affect the matter one way or another. I do not see why the Mineral Rights Duty should be in the slightest degree controlled by rates. It would be a very serious principle for the Government in establishing a new tax to take into account the rates paid by the property taxed. The dominant interest of taxation is the Imperial. After all, I do not think you ought to make the amount which is contributed to Imperial revenue subject in the slightest degree to the amount contributed to local funds. That is a very serious principle, which I could not possibly accept.
§ Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINI quite understand the difficulty of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in having to consider an Amendment which has been very materially modified from the form in which it stands on the Paper. If I make a complaint at all of the Chancellor of the Exchequer it is not that he is not prepared to accept an Amendment of this kind, which he only sees in manuscript almost at the moment it is moved, but that the Government have not themselves put down any proposal for dealing with this particular case. Just consider what it is, and how far the Chancellor of the Exchequer's general observations about taxation are applicable to it. If we were dealing with Income Tax, I should not like to say offhand whether he had or had not very good grounds for all he said; but what is the basis of these taxes, especially of the Mineral Tax? Repeatedly the Chancellor of the Exchequer has said that the man who is drawing great sums in royalties is contributing nothing to local taxation. It is true that in this portion of the country he contributes nothing to local taxation, but in Scotland that is not so. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has recognised that the local authorities are to have, not the raising of the tax, but the spending of the tax, by giving half the tax back to them. That being so, is it right that the owner of minerals in Scotland who does contribute to local rates should be treated exactly like the English owner who does not contribute? Whatever you take from the English owner, surely you ought to take something less from the Scotch owner. My hon. Friend in this Amendment asks for nothing more than that the Scotch owner should be permitted to deduct from the assessment the actual amount contributed in rates, and I do not think that is an unreasonable proposal. I am quite certain that this is a matter which ought to have been dealt with by the Government.
§ Mr. JOHN S. AINSWORTHI hope the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be able to give this matter consideration. In Scotland the owner of minerals contributes to local rates, and certainly everybody who understands the position would think it only fair that under these circumstances the Scotch owner should be able to deduct the amount which he contributes to the local treasury. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will be able to deal with this so as to avoid what would undoubtedly be unfair in the case of the owner of minerals in Scotland, and also in a number 805 of cases in England where owners contribute to the local exchequer. I hope the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be able to concede the point.
§ Mr. ALEXANDER FINDLAYI may point out that the feeling in Scotland is that mineral proprietors there ought to pay a very much larger share. I am credibly informed that in the case of a pit which is being sunk in Scotland they expect to get a thousand tons a day, and the royalty to be paid will amount to about £8,000 a year from that one pit. Not only that, but in the district to which I refer there is a duty to be paid in respect of the surface of the ground, and
§ those who build upon that ground will have no security against the coal being worked underneath and letting down their houses, thus destroying their property without any compensation being given to the owners of that property by those who work the minerals. The feeling among the public of Scotland, at any rate, is that in equity those proprietors who own the land right down to the centre of the earth—or assume to do so—ought to contribute very much more largely than they do in the public interest.
§ Question put, "That those words be there inserted in the Bill."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 49; Noes, 168.
807| Division No. 840.] | AYES. | [7.53 p.m. |
| Acland-Hood, Rt. Hon. Sir Alex. F. | Foster, P. S. | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Gretton, John | Percy, Earl |
| Balcarres, Lord | Hamilton, Marquess of | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (City, Lond.) | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Ronaldshay, Earl of |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Hill, Sir Clement | Rutherford, Watson (Liverpool) |
| Bignold, Sir Arthur | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Hunt, Rowland | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Cave, George | Joynson-Hicks, William | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Kerry, Earl of | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Cecil, Lord John P. Jolcey- | Keswick, William | Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire) |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Kimber, Sir Henry | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. A. (Worc'r.) | Lamont, Norman | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.) |
| Clive, Percy Archer | Lonsdale, John Brownlee | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Coates, Major E. F. (Lewisham) | Magnus, Sir Philip | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Newdegate, F. A. | |
| Duucan, Robert (Lanark, Govan) | Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. Younger and Sir H. Craik. |
| Fletcher, J. S. | Oddy, John James | |
| Forster, Henry William | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham W. (Cork, N. E.) | Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Hudson, Walter |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Dobson, Thomas W. | Idris, T. H. W. |
| Agnew, George William | Duncan, J. Hastings (York, Otley) | Illingworth, Percy H. |
| Alden, Percy | Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall) | Isaacs, Rufus Daniel |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Elibank, Master of | Jackson, R. S. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Erskine, David C. | Jardine, Sir J. |
| Astbury, John Meir | Essex, R. W. | Johnson, John (Gateshead) |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Everett, R. Lacey | Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea) |
| Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Ferens, T. R. | Jones, Leif (Appleby) |
| Barker, Sir John | Findlay, Alexander | Jowett, F. W. |
| Beale, W. P. | Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) |
| Bell, Richard | Fuller, John Michael F. | Lambert, George |
| Berridge, T. H. D. | Ginnell, L. | Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis |
| Bethell, Sir J. H. (Essex, Romford) | Gladstone, Rt. Hon. Herbert John | Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich) |
| Black, Arthur W. | Glendinning, R. G. | Levy, Sir Maurice |
| Boulton, A. C. F. | Glover, Thomas | Lewis, John Herbert |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David |
| Brooke, Stopford | Gooch, George Peabody (Bath) | Lynch, H. B. |
| Brunner, Rt. Hon. Sir J. T. (Cheshire) | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Burghs) |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Gulland, John W. | Mackarness, Frederic C. |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. L. (Rossendale) | Maclean, Donald |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney Charles | Hardy, George A. (Suffolk) | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. |
| Byles, William Pollard | Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) | M'Callum, John M. |
| Cameron, Robert | Haworth, Arthur A. | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald |
| Channing, Sir Francis Allston | Hedges, A. Paget | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Maddison, Frederick |
| Clough, William | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Mallet, Charles E. |
| Cobbold, Felix Thornley | Higham, John Sharp | Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston) |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Hobart, Sir Robert | Marnham, F. J. |
| Compton-Rickett, Sir J. | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry) |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Hodge, John | Massie, J. |
| Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinstead) | Holland, Sir William Henry | Menzies, Sir Walter |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Hooper, A. G. | Micklem, Nathaniel |
| Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Hope, W. H. B. (Somerset, N.) | Morse, L. L. |
| Crosfield, A. H. | Horniman, Emslie John | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas |
| Crossley, William J. | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Murray, Capt. Hon. A. C. (Kincard.) |
| Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.) | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) | Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E.) |
| Myer, Horatio | Rogers, F. E. Newman | Toulmin, George |
| Napier, T. B. | Rowlands, J. | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Nicholson, Charles N. (Doncaster) | Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W. | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Norman, Sir Henry | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Vivian, Henry |
| Nuttall, Harry | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) |
| O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Wardle, George J. |
| O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester) | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth) | Scott, A. H. (Ashton-under-Lyne) | Weir, James Galloway |
| O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) | Sears, J. E. | White, J. Dundas (Dumbartonshire) |
| Parker, James (Halifax) | Seely, Colonel | Whitehead, Rowland |
| Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) | Shackleton, David James | Whitley, John Henry (Halifax) |
| Pollard, Dr. G. H. | Stanger, H. Y. | Wiles, Thomas |
| Radford, G. H. | Stanley, Hon. A. Lyulph (Cheshire) | Wills, Arthur Walters |
| Rainy, A. Rolland | Steadman, W. C. | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.) |
| Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (Gloucester) | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) | Strachey, Sir Edward | Winfrey, R. |
| Rees, J. D. | Summerbell, T. | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
| Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | Taylor, John W. (Durham) | |
| Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Joseph Pease and Captain Norton. |
| Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) |
§ Amendment made: To add at the end of the Clause, "(4) Where arrangements are made under Section four of this Act for dispensing with the presentation of any instrument or particulars thereof, it shall be the duty of the keeper of the general register of sasines, and of the respective keepers of burgh or other local registers, to furnish to the Commissioners particulars of instruments presented for registration or registered in their respective registers as may be prescribed by regulations of the Commissioners, and in such case the provisions of Sub-section three of Section four shall not apply."—[Mr. Ure.]
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEI beg to move, "That the proceedings under the Bill be now adjourned until to-morrow."
I do this for the reason that I think we had better start on the new subject [Licensing Clauses] to-morrow. I understand that course to be for the convenience of all parties in the House. I should like to suggest that it is very desirable we should, if possible, get to the end of this stage on Friday, at a fairly reasonable hour. I looked through the Amendments and I do not see any reason why we should not do so. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Austen Chamberlain) would say something on that suggestion.
§ Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINI think the course which the Chancellor of the Exchequer is taking in not proceeding further this evening is for the convenience of everybody, and I am much obliged to him for so arranging business. As regards what may happen and what time may be taken upon the rest of the Bill I do not want to say anything to dispel the hopes which he cherishes. On the other hand, he perfectly understands that we cannot treat this Motion as in any way binding us to finish the Bill at a particular time. 808 [Mr. LLOYD-GEORGE assented.] It is recognised everywhere that the discussion on the Report stage has been very expeditious, considering the nature of the subjects; as expeditious as it could possibly be in reason. I have no reason to anticipate that other parts of the Bill will be differently dealt with. There is a vast deal of important matter still to be got through, and I certainly could not come to any agreement.
§ Mr. YOUNGERWhile I am sure no one desires to prolong discussion on the Licensing Clauses to any unnecessary length an Amendment has been placed on the Paper to Clause 44, which would require a very considerable amount of discussion, almost so much as to necessitate the recommital of the Bill, although I do not say so provided a certain latitude is allowed in discussing it so that we can thresh it out as we would in Committee. It is a very important alteration, and must be borne in mind in considering the time.
§ RESOLVED: That the proceedings under the Bill be now adjourned until to-morrow.
§ ADJOURNMENT.—Resolved "That this House do now Adjourn."—[Mr. Joseph Pease.]
§ House adjourned accordingly at Five minutes after Eight o'clock.