HC Deb 19 October 1909 vol 12 cc133-6
Mr. ARTHUR HENDERSON

May I repeat the question of which I gave pri- vate notice yesterday—to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he can state what action, if any, was taken on behalf of His Majesty's Government to prevent the shooting of Senor Ferrer by the Spanish Government without trial in a civil court?

Mr. M. KEATING

Before the question is replied to, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman has any grounds for believing the allegation that the Catholic authorities in Spain influenced the courts martial to murder Senor Ferrer because he was a secularist?

Mr. PATRICK O'BRIEN

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether His Majesty's Government received any representations from the Spanish Government at the time of the Denshawee executions in Egypt, and what reply was given to them; and if they did not make any representations, whether he thinks it would be prudent or would have any good result for the British Government now to interfere in the internal affairs of Spain?

Sir E. GREY

The answer I have to give will cover both the supplementary questions and other questions, of which I have received private notice. His Majesty's Government cannot depart from the rule not to interfere or to express opinions concerning matters of internal administration in other European countries where no British subjects or Treaty rights are involved. In such cases his Majesty's Government do not possess, and have no means of acquiring special information as to circumstances, or as to the facts. This rule is one observed, so far as I am aware, by all European Governments in their dealings with each other, and to depart from it would serve no useful purpose.

Mr. ARTHUR HENDERSON

Mr. Speaker, am I to understand from the reply given by the right hon. Gentleman that, notwithstanding the fact that a deputation waited upon him, and asked him to take this matter up, nothing has been done?

Sir E. GREY

I have nothing to add to the answer I have given, which is quite comprehensive.

Mr. P. CURRAN

Arising out of the answer, may I ask whether it is not a fact that the Foreign Office in the past has used its influence for the purpose of preventing atrocities being perpetrated by other Powers; and, if so, would not the right hon. Gentleman be within his rights in endeavouring to prevent the judicial murder of one of Spain's most distinguished citizens?

Mr. VICTOR GRAYSON

In consequence of the unsatisfactory answer received from the right hon. Gentleman, I beg to move, "That this House do now adjourn in order to discuss a definite matter of urgent public importance." I refer, of course, to the matter which has been the subject of the questions to the right hon. Gentleman.

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member for Colne Valley asks leave to move the adjournment of the House in order to discuss a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the action of the Foreign Secretary in not having intervened in the matter of the trial and execution of Senor Ferrer. If that is what the hon. Member means I may point out to him that it is hardly urgent.

Mr. GRAYSON

May I explain that contingent upon this individual and personal matter in the question of those who are now being tortured in the dungeons of Spain—

Mr. H. BELLOC

They are not—

Mr. GRAYSON

And accused of complicity in exactly the same business. Therefore, I think the matter one of most urgent public importance, and I believe the spirit of the House will agree with that.

Mr. SPEAKER

I think I can hardly recognise that as a matter of urgent public importance. This question arose with regard to the execution of Senor Ferrer. I think no urgency can arise with regard to that.

Mr. GRAYSON

The matter under discussion, as I understand, is the action of the Spanish Government in trying by court martial and not in a fair civil court, where witnesses are allowed to be called—

Mr. BELLOC

They were called.

Mr. GRAYSON

If the hon. Member for South Salford has anything to add, I hope he will do it later. What I wish to point out is that prisoners are now in gaol in Spain, and practically under sentence, who will be shot as Ferrer was shot unless the matter is recognised by the House to-day as one of urgent public importance.

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member should have put in writing the actual words on which he wants to ask leave to move the adjournment; but I will put it in this way: "The hon. Member for Colne Valley seeks to move the adjournment of the House in order to call attention to a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the non-intervention by the Foreign Secretary on behalf of prisoners now in gaol in Spain, and shortly coming up for trial before courts-martial." Does that cover the intention of the hon. Member?

Mr. GRAYSON

Might I add to those words: "Owing to the action of the Foreign Secretary in not endeavouring to induce the Spanish Government to give a fair trial in the civil courts to those now in gaol on charges similar to those against Senor Ferrer?"

Mr. CURRAN

May I have an answer to my question?

Mr. SPEAKER

Has the hon. Member the leave of the House—has the hon. Member the support of 40 Members? (After counting the Members who had risen) Eighteen.

Less than 40 Members having accordingly risen, the House proceeded to the-Orders of the Day.