§ (1) The Land Commission in determining under Sub-section (2) of Section one or under Section five of the Act of 1903 whether the agreed price of a holding is equitable shall have regard to the respective interests of the landlord and tenant in the holding and in the improvements thereon, and the price shall not be deemed to be equitable if it appears to the Land Commission that any substantial part thereof represents the value of improvements made by the tenant or his predecessors in title for which he or they have not been paid or compensated by the landlord or his predecessors in title.
§ (2) Any question which may arise under this Section as to—
- (a) whether an improvement was or was not made by the tenant or his predecessors in title; or
- (b) whether the tenant or his predecessors in title have or have not been paid or compensated for any improvement;
§ Lords Amendment: Leave out Clause 20.
§ Question proposed: "That this House doth agree with the Lords in said Amendment."
§ Mr. BIRRELLThis is nearly the last, if not quite the last, of my broken eggs. I regret that the Clause should have been omitted, but I none the less ask the House to agree to the Amendment. The object 94 of the Clause was to meet the case where the calculation of the price of a holding included the price of the tenant's improvements which were the tenant's own property. I think it is only fair to say that such cases are admittedly not of frequent occurrence. There is no doubt that the force of the argument against this Clause consisted in the fact that it authorised the tearing up of contracts and involved offensive investigations by the rent-fixing tribunal. These are the objections involved in the Clause. I think they were overcome by the sense of equity in the nature of the transaction itself, but at the same time the Clause being one which excited the greatest opposition in the House of Lords, I have, for reasons which I need not refer to again, to ask the House to agree to the Lords Amendment.
§ Mr. DILLONI am very sorry the right hon. Gentleman has consented to have this egg broken. It shows that the landlords understand their own interests exceedingly well. This Clause does more than the right hon. Gentleman alluded to in his statement. The real genesis of the Clause is to be found in Clause 5 of the Bill of of 1903, which is as follows:
"In the case of the sale of an estate where an application for an advance, to which the provisions of Sub-section one of Section one of this Act do not apply, is made, the Land Commission may, subject to the limitations in the Land Purchase Acts, advance the whole or part of the purchase money if they are satisfied with the security and are of opinion that, having, regard to all the circumstances of the case, the agreed price is equitable."
For some time the Estates Com[...]sioners held the view—in fact, the[...] it still—that the plain interprets[...] 95 that Clause was that they were to have regard to all the circumstances before they agreed to advance the money for the price. Then came a decision—I forget whether it was by the Court of Appeal or by one of the judges—that that was not the meaning of these words. The Court held that the Commissioners were only to have regard to the rights of the remainder man, and not to the rights of the tenants, atlhough they were directed by the Clause to have regard to all the circumstances of the case. Clause 20 of this Bill is far more comprehensive than the Chief Secretary would have us believe. It is, first of all, a reversion of that judgment which deprived the tenant of the protection supposed to be given by the Act of 1903, and it directs the Commissioners in finding out whether the price is equitable that they shall have regard to the rights of the landlord and the tenant, and not only the remainder man. Then it goes on to say the price shall not be deemed to be equitable if it appears to the Land Commission that any substantial part thereof represents the value of improvements made by the tenant or his predecessors in title for which he or they have not
§ been paid or compensated by the landlord or his predecessors in title." The Chief Secretary said that in his opinion such cases would be exceedingly few. I entirely differ. I think they form a large proportion of the sales in Ireland. The man who goes down to inspect for the Commission does not go into the question of the equity of the price; he goes into the question of security. It has over and over again been given in evidence that in considering the question of security the inspector takes into account the whole of the holding as it stands. We all know very well that a tenant's interest is sometimes more than half of the entire holding. Therefore I say that in many instances the unfortunate tenants in these sales are buying back their own improvements, which really ought to be their own property. This Clause, therefore, is not the small matter which the Chief Secretary tried to make out. In the first place, it restores what was originally supposed to be the meaning of Clause 5 of the Act of 1903, and it further says that in determining the equity of the price the Land Commission shall have regard to the tenant's improvements.
§ The House divided: Ayes, 179; Noes, 80.
97| Division No. 901.] | AYES. | [8.0 p.m. |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Cleland, J. W. | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Clough, William | Haworth, Arthur A. |
| Ainsworth, John St[...]rling | Cochrane, Hon. Thomas H. A. E. | Hazel, Dr. A. E. W. |
| Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Hedges, A. Paget |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Collins, Sir Wm. J. (St. Pancras, W.) | Helme, Norval Watson |
| Astbury, John Meir | Compton-Rickett, Sir J. | Henry, Charles S. |
| Baker, Joseph A. | Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinstead) | Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon. S.) |
| Balcarres, Lord | Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Higham, John Sharp |
| Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Hobart, Sir Robert |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Holt, Richard Durning |
| Barker, Sir John | Cox, Harold | Hooper, A. G. |
| Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, s.) | Horniman, Emslie John |
| Barnard, E. B. | Crosfield, A. H. | Hyde, Clarendon G. |
| Barran, Sir John Nicholson | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Idris, T. H. W. |
| Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.) | Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Illingworth, Percy H. |
| Beale, W. P. | Dobson, Thomas W. | Isaacs, Rufus Daniel |
| Benn, Sir J. Williams (Devonport) | Doughty, Sir George | Jackson, R. S. |
| Bennett, E. N. | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) |
| Berridge, T. H. D. | Duncan, J. Hastings (York, Otley) | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) |
| Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan) | Kerry, Earl of |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Edwards, A. Clement (Denbigh) | Keswick, William |
| Boulton, A. C. F. | Elibank, Master of | Kimber, Sir Henry |
| Brigg, John | Evans, Sir S. T. | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) |
| Bright, J. A. | Everett, R. Lacey | Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster) |
| Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Falconer, J. | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) |
| Brunner, Rt. Hon. Sir J. T. (Cheshire) | Fell, Arthur | Lamont, Norman |
| Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Fenwick, Charles | Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Fletcher, J. S. | Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich) |
| Butcher, Samuel Henry | Fullerton, Hugh | Levy, Sir Maurice |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney Charles | Gooch, George Peabody (Bath) | Lewis, John Herbert |
| Byles, William Pollard | Gooch, Henry Cubitt (Peckham) | Long, Rt. Hon. Walter (Dublin, S.) |
| Cameron, Robert | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | Lonsdale, John Brownlee |
| Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M. | Gretton, John | Lupton, Arnold |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Gulland, John W. | Lynch, H. B. |
| Cave, George | Hancock, J. G. | MacCaw, Wm. J. MacGeagh |
| Cawley, Sir Frederick | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Burghs) |
| Channing, Sir Francis Allston | Hardy, George A. (Suffolk) | Maddison, Frederick |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worcester) | Markham, Arthur Basil |
| Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. B. | Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) | Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston) |
| Marnham, F. J. | Rendall, Athelstan | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) |
| Massle, J. | Renwick, George | Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E.) |
| Menzies, Sir Walter | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | Toulmin, George |
| Middlebrook, William | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs) | Vivian, Henry |
| Moore, William | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall) | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Morse, L. L. | Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Waterlow, D. S. |
| Murray, Capt. Hon. A. C. (Kincard.) | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) | White, Sir George (Norfolk) |
| Myer, Horatio | Rogers, F. E. Newman | White, Sir Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Newnes, F. (Notts, Bassetlaw) | Rose, Sir Charles Day | Whittaker, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas P. |
| Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield) | Rowlands, J. | Wiles, Thomas |
| Nussey, Sir Willans | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Wills, Arthur Walters |
| Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Rutherford, Watson (Liverpool) | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.) |
| Pearson, Sir W. D. (Colchester) | Seaverns, J. H. | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
| Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) | Seely, Colonel | Winfrey, R. |
| Pirie, Duncan V. | Sherwell, Arthur James | Wood, T. McKinnon |
| Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Price, Sir Robert J. (Norfolk, E.) | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Younger, George |
| Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | |
| Radford, G. H. | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. Joseph Pease and Mr. Fuller. |
| Rea, Rt. Hon, Russell (Gloucester) | Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) | |
| Rees, J. D. | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, W. (Cork, (N. E.) | Jordan, Jeremiah | O'Malley, William |
| Ambrose, Robert | Jowett, F. W. | O'Neill, Charles |
| Barnes, G. N. | Joyce, Michael | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Roland, John | Kavanagh, Walter M. | Philips, John (Longford, S.) |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Keating, M. | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Reddy, M. |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Crean, Eugene | Lundon, T. | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Cullinan, J. | Lynch, A. (Clare, W.) | Richards, T. F. (Wolverhampton, W.) |
| Delany, William | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift | Richardson, A. |
| Dillon, John | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.) | Roche, Augustine (Cork) |
| Duffy, William J. | MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.) | Roche, John (Galway, East) |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | M'Kean, John | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Meagher, Michael | Scott, A. H. (Ashton-under-Lyne) |
| Farrell, James Patrick | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Sheehan, Daniel Daniel |
| Ffrench, Peter | Meehan, Patrick A. (Queen's Co.) | Sheehy, David |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Mooney, J. J. | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Flynn, James Christopher | Muldoon, John | Steadman, W. C. |
| Gilhooly, James | Murnaghan, George | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) |
| Ginnell, L | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Summerbell, T. |
| Glover, Thomas | Nolan, Joseph | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Gwynn, Stephen Lucius | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Thorne, William (West Ham) |
| Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil) | O'Doherty, Philip | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Harrington, Timothy | O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Hodge, John | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) | |
| Hogan, Michael | O'Dowd, John | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Patrick O'Brien and Captain Donelan. |
| Hudson, Walter | O'Grady, J. | |
| Jenkins, J. | O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N.) |