§ Sub-section (2).—Any expenses incurred by a local authority under this Part of this Act, or any scheme made thereunder, shall be defrayed as expenses of the authority under the Public Health Acts, and the authority may borrow, for the purposes of this Part of this Act, or any scheme made thereunder, in the same 1604 manner and subject to the same provisions as they may borrow for the purposes of the Public Health Acts.
§ Lords Amendment: After "Acts" ["under the Public Health Acts"] insert "provided that in the case of a rural authority such expenses shall be levied in such manner and by such separate rate and subject to the same exceptions and provisions as are applicable under the said Acts to special expenses."
§ Mr. SPEAKERThis is a variation of the incidence of the rates, and is a privileged Amendment.
§ Lord ROBERT CECILOn that I would make an appeal to the Government.
§ Lord ROBERT CECILBut the House of Commons constantly waives its privilege. It has done so several times this Session, and in every Session since I have been in Parliament. The question is whether it is a reasonable proposal. It appears to be a reasonable and workmanlike proposal. This is quite a case in which the House can waive its privilege.
§ Mr. BURNSApart from the merits of our action in disagreeing with the Amendment, I say that the time is not propitious for waiving it. I must respectfully ask the Noble Lord to allow me to disagree with him.
§ Viscount MORPETHThe right hon. Gentleman says frankly that although it is reasonable, he will not accept it.
§ Viscount MORPETHThat is to say he waived the merits and declined to consider the Amendment, because the time is not propitious. He desires to use this as a part of his strategy for an entirely different and alien purpose. He expects the Opposition to treat this Bill on its merits, but he declines to do so because of the general political situation.
§ Viscount MORPETHI am in the recollection of the House. The right hon. Gentleman says that because this is not a propitious time, he declines to consider the 1605 Amendment, or even discuss in this House whether it is a meritorious Amendment. I think that for a Minister who desires to conduct his Bill through the House with the least amount of friction and the utmost amount of support from all sections of the House, this is a very unfortunate method of procedure. Even at this late stage of the Bill I think it is a great misfortune that the right hon. Gentleman has adopted that method and refused to accept the Amendment simply because he does not think it fits in with the strategy of his colleagues.
§ Mr. LYTTELTONI hope hon. Members opposite who are really interested in rural housing will take note of the effect of the right hon. Gentleman's declining to consider a most reasonable Amendment. It will most likely prevent most excellent work being done in rural districts, which are poor districts. The effect of resisting the Amendment on grounds which are purely factious and non-meritorious may very likely be that in the cases most urgently in need of
§ housing reform the finance of the matter will be impossible by reason of their poverty.
§ Mr. LYTTELTONAnd the refusal of the right hon. Gentleman to allow assistance to be given to them from the other sources more available by this Amendment.
§ Mr. BURNSThe right hon. Gentleman says that the refusal of this Amendment will handicap rural housing experiments. On the contrary, if we were not to have our way in this matter and to disagree with the Lords Amendment, railway companies would be exempted from contributing their proper share, and rural experiments in housing would be handicapped.
§ Question put, "That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 89; Noes, 20.
1605| Division No. 887.] | AYES. | [1.40 a.m. |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Glover, Thomas | Newnes, F. (Notts, Bassetlaw) |
| Adkins, W. Ryland D. | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Gooch, George Peabody (Bath) | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. L. (Rossendale) | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Beale, W. P. | Hedges, A. Paget | Pointer, J. |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Price, Sir Robert J. (Norfolk, E.) |
| Brooke, Stopford | Henry, Charles S. | Radford, G. H. |
| Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon. S.) | Raphael, Herbert H. |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Higham, John Sharp | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Hobart, Sir Robert | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs) |
| Byles, William Pollard | Horniman, Emslie John | Rogers, F. E. Newman |
| Causton, Rt. Hon. Richard Knight | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Hudson, Walter | Seely, Colonel |
| Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Summerbell, T. |
| Clough, William | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Sutherland, J. E. |
| Collins, Sir Wm. J. (St. Pancras, W.) | Jowett, F. W. | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinstead) | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) | Tennant, Sir Edward (Salisbury) |
| Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Lamont, Norman | Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) |
| Crossley, William J. | Lehmann, R. C. | Toulmin, George |
| Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Lewis, John Herbert | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.) | Vivian, Henry |
| Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.) | Maddison, Frederick | Walsh, Stephen |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Markham, Arthur Basil | Walters, John Tudor |
| Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Marnham, F. J. | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) |
| Essex, R. W. | Masterman, C. F. G. | White, Sir Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Evans, Sir S. T. | Micklem, Nathaniel | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Everett, R. Lacey | Middlebrook, William | |
| Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Mond, A. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. Joseph Pease and Captain Norton. |
| Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter | Morrell, Philip | |
| Fuller, John Michael F. | Murray, Capt. Hon. A. C. (Kincard.) |
| NOES. | ||
| Balcarres, Lord | Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott | Valentia, Viscount |
| Bignold, Sir Arthur | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Whitbread, S. Howard |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Forster, Henry William | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Cave, George | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Younger, George |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Morpeth, Viscount | |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Newdegate, F. A. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Hay and the Earl of Kerry. |
| Clyde, J. Avon | Stanier, Beville | |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thomas H. A. E. | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |