§ Mr. HICKS BEACHasked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the Trea- 894 sury officials have completed their investigation into the granting of old age pensions in Ireland; and how many pensions have been disallowed by them?
§ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (Mr. Lloyd-George)The investigation has now been completed, but it will be some time before it is possible to state how many pensions will be disallowed as a result of it, since the cases in dispute have to be again submitted to the local pension committees.
§ Mr. JOHN REDMONDWill the right hon. Gentleman state whether there will be an appeal in those cases to the Local Government Board on the part of the pensioner?
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEThere will be an appeal if the local pension committee refuse to accept the view of the Treasury officials.
§ Mr. O'DOWDMay I ask whether, in view of the fact that the decisions of the local pension committees have been overridden by the pension officers, the right hon. Gentleman will consider the advisability of abolishing the local pension committees altogether?
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEIn the event of the local pension committee not accepting the decisions there will be an appeal to the Local Government Board.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEIf the local pension committees do accept the decision, will the applicant for a pension have the right of appeal?
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEThat is so.
§ Mr. CHARLES CRAIGMay I ask if the right hon. Gentleman is in possession of information showing how many pensions have been granted in each county in Ireland?
§ Mr. SPEAKEROrder, order. That question does not arise.
§ Mr. JEREMIAH MacVEAGHMay I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it is intended to hold similar inquiries into the granting of old age pensions in England to those which have been held in Ireland?
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEWhenever there is reason to believe that pensions have 895 been granted without good ground certainly there will be inquiry. There have been cases in England where inquiries of that kind have been held.
Colonel WILLIAMSBy what right are these inquiries made when it was intended that the decisions of the local pensions committee were to be final?
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEThe Act of Parliament does not say so. There is a perfect right on the part of the Revenue officials to investigate these cases if the officials think that a pension has been granted on grounds which cannot be substantiated.
§ Mr. BELLOCWill the same machinery be applied if a local pension committee tries to prevent anyone getting a pension?
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEThe applicant can renew his application in due course.
§ Mr. BELLOCWould the same machinery be brought into play?
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEExactly. There is no distinction at all in the machinery.
§ Mr. HAZLETONThe right hon. Gentleman cannot say how many pensions have been disallowed. Can he tell us bow many cases there were presented to the pension committees for disallowance?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat is a question of which the hon. Member should give notice.