Mr. T. F. RICHARDSasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that in the building of three torpedo boat destroyers by Messrs. Cammell, Laird, and Company, Birkenhead, there are employed 20 apprentices to 20 platers, and 24 apprentices to 24 rivetters; whether this proportion of boy labour is used with the consent of the Admiralty; and whether, in view of the unemployment at present prevailing, and also on the point of efficiency, he will take steps to have a larger proportion of adult labour employed, or what action does he intend to take in the matter?
§ The FIRST LORD of the ADMIRALTY (Mr. McKenna)Admiralty contracts do not stipulate anything as to the relative number of apprentices to fully-trained workmen. The contracts, however, insist on only the best workmanship being employed. Adequate arrangements are made to ensure that this condition is fully met. If not met at any time, immediate action would be taken with the firm.
Mr. RICHARDSWill the right hon. Gentleman take the necessary steps to make inquiries as to whether the facts stated in the question are correct or otherwise?
§ Mr. McKENNAThe facts stated in the question, if correct, would not necessarily by themselves lead to any action on the part of the Admralty, as it is no part of the contract of the Admiralty with the contractors that they should or should not employ a certain number of apprentices.
Mr. RICHARDSIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Admiralty is paying for men-made torpedoes and they are getting boy-made torpedoes?
§ Mr. McKENNANo; we stipulate for work of a certain quality, and we are, as I am informed, getting that at the present time. I will inquire further into the matter.
§ Mr. P. F. CURRANIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the number of apprentices is limited in each organisation to a given number, according to the number of journeymen employed, and in this particular case the number of apprentices far outreaches the actual number that is allowed by any organisation having regard to trade union conditions?
§ Mr. McKENNAYes; I understand that what my hon. Friend has referred to is the trade union rule, but we can only act according to the terms of our own contract, and in that there is no stipulation that apprentices shall or shall not be employed.
§ Mr. CURRANDoes not the Fair Wage Clause mean the recognised trade union conditions?
§ Mr. McKENNANo; the Fair Wage Clause does not refer to trade union conditions; only to the rates of wages.
Mr. RICHARDSIf you have apprentice boiler-makers or rivetters, you are having incompetent instead of competent workmen; I speak as one having four years' experience.
§ Mr. McKENNAI am aware of the position, and I will make further inquiries; but the mere fact that apprentices are employed in what the hon. Member regards as excessive numbers does not constitute a breach of the contract.
§ Mr. T. SUMMERBELLIs it to be understood that, so far as the right hon. Gentleman is concerned, he cares not whether the work is done by apprentice or man labour?
§ Mr. McKENNAI am not speaking of that at all. I am only stating as a fact what the contract is. It was made some time ago, and I am stating what the conditions of the contract are at the present time.