HC Deb 31 August 1909 vol 10 cc179-82
Mr. JOHN MURPHY

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that Mrs. Catherine Moriarty, of Gortatlea, county Kerry, was refused a pension by the Local Government Board as she could not procure a certificate of her age from the parish register or the Census Returns, though the Milltown pension committee allowed the pension on the production of a sworn declaration showing her to be over 70 years; and whether, seeing that there are several such cases in Kerry where no certificate can be obtained, he will direct the Local Government Board to allow the pensions claimed?

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND (Mr. R. R. Cherry)

The pension officer appealed against the decision of the local committee allowing this woman a pension on the ground that evidence had not been produced to establish her age. The declaration referred to was made by the claimant's brother, who stated that he was 75 years of age and that his sister was three years younger than he. As, in the opinion of the Local Government Board, this declaration was not substantiated, they allowed the pension officer's appeal. With regard to the last part of the question, the Act requires that in cases of appeal the claimants must satisfy the Board that they have reached the statutory age.

Mr. J. C. FLYNN

Would not the Local Government Board in this and similar cases consent to receive separate evidence as to age, as is constantly done in this country?

Mr. CHERRY

Yes, I think so; but they must apparently be satisfied with the evidence. They were not satisfied with the evidence in this case. They are the judges of the evidence.

Mr. M. JOYCE

What does the right hon. Gentleman mean by saying the declaration was not substantiated? What substantiation could a man of 75 years get of his statement that his sister was three years younger than himself?

Mr. CHERRY

That is the declaration, and in the opinion of the Local Government Board it was not corroborated by any other circumstances.

Mr. MURPHY

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will refer the matter back to the Local Government Board, and point out to them that the man who made the declaration produced a certificate showing he was 75 years of age?

Mr. CHERRY

I have no power to refer it back.

Mr. FRANCIS MEEHAN

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether the pension of Michael Ford, of Moneene-kiene, Drumkeerin, in the Manorhamilton district, was reduced from 5s. to 3s. per week without notice having been served on Ford; whether the appeal was on the ground of age or of means; and whether the Local Government Board have power to deal with cases that are not appealed?

Mr. CHERRY

I am informed by the Local Government Board that Michael Ford was originally granted a pension of 5s. a week by the pension committee. The pension officer subsequently raised a question as to Ford's right to receive any pension, and notice was duly sent to Ford. The Board ruled against the pension officer on the point he raised as to the pensioner's age, and on consideration of his means awarded him 3s. a week. As regards the last paragraph of the question, the Board know nothing of cases which do not come before them on appeal, but they hold, and have been advised, that when a claim comes before them for determination, either on appeal or question, they are bound to satisfy themselves that all the statutory conditions have been fulfilled, and are not confined to the consideration of the particular point upon which the appeal was submitted. This view has been challenged in the High Court of Justice, and the King's Bench Division being equally divided on the point raised, notice of appeal has been given. Pending the result of the appeal, the Board's procedure holds good.

Mr. FRANCIS MEEHAN

asked the Chief Secretary whether he is aware that the pension of Mary M'Manus, of Kilroask and East Bars, in the district of Manorhamilton, was on appeal, on the question of age, reduced from 5s. to 3s. per week; and by what authority was the said reduction made, as there was no appeal on the question of means, she being a poor woman depending solely on her family and friends for a living; and whether the Local Government Board would reconsider her claim?

Mr. CHERRY

I understand that the facts are as stated. As regards the authority of the Local Government Board to reduce the pension when there was no appeal on the question of means, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I have just given to his question as to the case of Michael Ford. The Board have no power to reconsider their decision, but if the applicant can give any new facts or show any alteration in her circumstances it is open to her to make a fresh claim.

Mr. J. P. HAYDEN

asked the Chief Secretary whether he is aware that Strokestown, county Roscommon, pensions committee granted a pension of 3s. a week to Patrick Fallon, which, upon appeal by the pension officer to the Local Government Board, was refused on the ground that there was no documentary proof of age, as no entry of his name could be found in the Census Returns of 1841 or 1851; whether, in the absence of such entry, other evidence available in the case, satisfactory to the pensions committee has been considered by the Local Government Board; and, if not, whether he will request that Board to consider such evidence?

Mr. CHERRY

The Local Government Board upheld the pension officer's appeal as they were not satisfied that the claimant had reached the statutory age. Before coming to this decision they carefully considered all the evidence submitted to them. When joining the Teachers' Pension Scheme in 1880, Fallon gave the date of his birth as 5th May, 1840.