HC Deb 26 August 1909 vol 9 cc2279-81
Mr. P. WHITE (for Mr. Meagher)

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether, in the cases of appeals made by the pension officer against pensions granted by the Castlecomer old age pension subcommittee to Richard Shea and Anne Wilson on the question of means, the Local Government Board took any steps further than reading the pension officer's report to inquire into the means of said claimants, before deciding against the decision of the committee granting them pensions; and, if so, will he state the steps so taken?

Mr. BIRRELL

I understand that in both these cases the Local Government Board obtained returns as to the claimants' stock and crops.

Mr. P. WHITE (for Mr. Meagher)

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if he is aware that the Castlecomer old age pension sub-committee passed a claim for pension to William Tracey and Mary Comerford, and that the said claims respectively were appealed against by the pension officer, who relied on the Census Returns, and that the sub-committee, having local and other proofs of the ages of the applicants, and statutory declarations made by the applicants, that each of the two was over 70 years of age, passed the pensions, and that the Local Government Board decided against their claims; if he will state the reasons which influenced the Local Government Board to set aside the decisions of the committee and the statutory declarations of the applicants in favour of a record from the Census, having regard to the fact that a statutory declaration is accepted as evidence, whereas a certificate from the Census will not be so accepted in a court of law; whether he is aware that, in the case of William Tracey, the Local Government Board was requested to send down an inspector to verify the declaration made by Tracey; whether the Local Government Board did so; and, if not, will he say why they did not so send down before setting aside a statutory declaration?

Mr. BIRRELL

The Local Government Board upheld the appeals in these cases as there was not sufficient evidence that the claimants had reached the statutory age. In Mary Comerford's case letters were forwarded from two persons stating that they believed her to be seventy years of age. Tracey made a statutory declaration that he was thirty-two years old at the time of his marriage in 1868, and submitted a letter from a clergyman to the effect that he believed his statement. The Board could not accept this evidence, having regard to the fact that the claimants appeared from the Census Returns of 1851 to have been then nine and eight years of age respectively. Tracey asked the Board to send down an inspector to see him, but, having regard to the documentary evidence, it was not considered necessary to do so.

Mr. SWIFT MacNEILL

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these Census Returns would not be received as legal evidence in any court of justice?

Mr. BIRRELL

I daresay that may be, but the misfortune of the case is that there is no legal evidence obtainable in these cases with regard to age, and the authorities have to act in each case upon their general view of the facts. It is a very difficult thing to do.