HC Deb 18 August 1909 vol 9 cc1365-7
Mr. PATRICK WHITE

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether, when the free police force of one county in Ireland is transferred to and paid for by another county, the amount provided for their maintenance in the county in which they were part of the free force goes back to the Treasury?

The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Birrell)

When a portion of the free force of one county is temporarily drafted into another county for duty there the amount charged to the latter county under the statute is credited to the Constabulary Vote and goes to reduce the total charge on the Imperial Exchequer for the force. The charge made on the county to which the men are sent is sometimes less and sometimes more than the expenses actually incurred by the State in transferring them.

Mr. P. WHITE

Will not that relieve the Exchequer from the obligation to pay for the free police in Ireland at the expense of the Exchequer?

Mr. BIRRELL

If the free police force is transferred from one county to another and remains in the transferred county a sufficient length of time, no doubt some profit does accrue to the Exchequer, but it all depends upon how long they stay, as the cost of transference eats up all the profit which can be made for a considerable time. It therefore depends upon how long the transferred force remains in the county to which it is transferred. If it remains there long enough, under the statute any profit goes to the benefit of the Exchequer.

Mr. P. WHITE

Does the right hon. Gentleman think that fair to Ireland?

Mr. BIRRELL

There are so many things that I do not know whether they are fair to answer one way or another that I could not give a general answer.

Mr. CULLINAN

Where this free force has nothing to do in the county from which it is transferred, is it not just that the other county should pay the expense of it?

Mr. BIRRELL

The hon. Member raises a question on the statute law. I do not know whether, and I am not concerned to say whether, it is just or not, but that is the fact.

Mr. P. WHITE

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that the Meath County Council has refused to pay the charges for extra police drafted into the county from the free force of other counties on the ground that they include not only the cost of transfer but the cost of maintenance, etc., which had already been provided for on account of their being the free force of other counties, and whether he will advise that the claim for payment be not pressed?

Mr. BIRRELL

I have received a copy of the Resolution in question. The county is legally liable for these charges, which are fixed by Statute, and no remission can be made.

Mr. P. WHITE

Has the right hon. Gentleman no discretion in the matter?

Mr. BIRRELL

No; I have no discretion in the matter whatever. It is a statutory obligation.

Mr. CULLINAN

As this has occurred in several counties in Ireland, why is it that the local councils should not be consulted as to the extra force? I know that in many cases these forces are brought into counties where they are not required, especially in Tipperary, and they are brought in there because of Cabinet influence.

Mr. BIRRELL

I cannot go into that. It is not a question for the local authorities at all, but for the Imperial Government, on its own responsibility, to declare what amount of force is necessary in any county.

Mr. P. WHITE

They could not be transferred without the sanction of the Government of Ireland. Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider his decision? It had the sanction of the right hon. Gentleman before the money could be levied.

Mr. BIRRELL

A force is not transferred from one county to another unless the Government believes or is satisfied that it is necessary in the interests of peace.