§ Order for second reading read.
§ Motion made and Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a second time."
1596§ The UNDER-SECRETARY for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. Herbert Samuel)I hope the House will permit the few minutes at its disposal to be used in passing the second reading of a small Departmental Bill which is not opposed in any quarter of the House, and which, is of a somewhat urgent character. It is a Bill to safeguard the public from the danger which arises from fires at cinematograph 1597 entertainments, which are specially liable to outbreaks of fire on account of the long highly inflammable films which are used in the lanterns. There have been already many fires. The London County Council is able to make regulations for places under its control, and these regulations undoubtedly have averted, within the last few years, several serious panics which might otherwise have taken place. But there is a great number of places both in and outside London which are unlicensed, and altogether without control; many of them are dangerous in structure, and no adequate precautions are taken against fire, and unless they are brought under control disaster is sooner or later almost inevitable. There have been several panics owing to fires arising from cinematograph films catching fire in other countries, although happily in England we have been free from them, but if the unregulated condition of these places of entertainment is allowed to continue, sooner or later disaster is almost certain to take place.
The Bill provides, first, that regulations may be made by the Home Office to secure safety from fire when inflammable films are used, and to have the apparatus properly boxed in and provided with fire extinguishing apparatus, and, secondly, that the premises on which the entertainments are given shall be licensed by the county council or county borough council or by the Lord Chamberlain if they come within his purview. I beg to move.
§ Mr. WATSON RUTHERFORDThere are many features of this Bill which are open to question. It is another instance of those Bills which are called Departmental Bills, which simply have the effect of increasing those grandmotherly, and in many cases, entirely unnecessary, precautions which are supposed to be in the interests of the public, but which really inflict very considerable hardship upon individuals, and I have been at a loss to understand, in reading over this Bill, why this particular class of entertainment should be picked out, and why others of a similar character and certainly almost, if not quite, as dangerous and as likely to cause fire, should be exempt. For instance, there is all that class of entertainment where magic lanterns of different kinds, and gases which are liable to explode, and specially liable to take fire are used, and when you read this Bill through and find that these cinematograph entertain- 1598 ments are specially picked out, and have a Bill all to themselves, you wonder why it is so. I am credibly informed that the people who are running these different entertainments are fully aware of the risks attached to this particular kind of apparatus, and that precautions are taken in every possible way. We had a very interesting series of entertainments of this kind in the city to which I belong, which gave an amount of enjoyment and instruction and recreation to thousands of people, and there was no trouble or difficulty of any sort. I am informed on good authority that there has not been in this court-try a single case of fire arising from any of these entertainments at all.
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThat is not the case. There has been a considerable number of fires.
§ Mr. WATSON RUTHERFORDI made inquiries, and I was not able to ascertain that within anything like recent times there had been any fire arising from this class of entertainment. I myself have had to do in my official capacity with a number of these entertainments in Liverpool, and they gave a great deal of enjoyment and instruction, and it is a very great pity that they should be picked out for special condemnation, and that attempts should be made to cause difficulty in giving this instruction and enjoyment to the public. There are other features in the Bill which are objectionable in themselves. For instance, why should the licences be left in the hands of the county council? I cannot understand that. With regard to other matters, the power of granting licences for various classes of entertainments is left with the magistrates who have to do with licences for other premises at the same time. Then there is a number of penalties in the Bill, and they are very serious. We have had no indication as to what the regulations are which are to be made. It is possible that if the Home Office is given the power of making a number of regulations they will make such regulations as will make it practically impossible for these entertainments to be given. If the House is asked to deal with a matter of this importance, involving large sums of money invested in these entertainments and involving arrangements which have been made for months to come to give these entertainments, it is too much to expect that in ten minutes we should be asked to deal with an important matter of this sort and to pass a Bill without 1599 Members really having an opportunity of fully considering it and discussing it. I see there are penalties of £20, £5, 5s., and £1.
§ Mr. CLOUGH rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put"; but Mr. Speaker withheld his consent, and declined then to put that Question.
§ Mr. WATSON RUTHERFORDI am not endeavouring to talk the Bill out. I am simply making a few observations upon matters which are absolutely essential to be taken into consideration when a Bill of this kind is brought forward.
And, it being a Quarter-past Eight of the clock, further proceeding was postponed, without Question put, in pursuance of Standing Order No. 4.