LICENSING BILL.

HC Deb 06 November 1908 vol 195 cc1557-652

Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

[Mr. EMMOTT (Oldham) in the Chair.]

Clause 41;

THE SOLICITOR-GENERAL (Sir S. EVANS,) Glamorganshire, Mid

moved an Amendment to leave out the words "specially authorised for the purpose by the chief constable." The clause, he said, dealt with the right of inspection of club premises, and a great deal of alarm—quite unnecessary alarm, he thought—had been created on the subject. Fantastic pictures had been drawn as to the entry at any time of the day or night into any part of club premises, even, it had been suggested, into the private rooms of the steward. It was a perfectly grotesque picture, and he was quite sure that no member of the Committee could place his hand over that region where his political conscience was supposed to dwell and say that he believed anything of the kind would happen. They had admitted all along that it was possible that clubs over which inspection ought to be had might spring up, and it had been said freely on the other side that one of the results of this legislation would be to create clubs of that kind. Some explanation was therefore necessary. The only inspection now possible was one by search warrant. It was necessary, in the interests of the clubs themselves, that there should be something less drastic than that for ordinary occasions. It did not frequently happen that circumstances justified extreme measures of that kind, and they had suggested here that a chief constable of police, and any inspector or superintendent of police, or officer of the like or superior rank, should have power at any time to enter and inspect the premises. It had been said that those words did not put sufficient restrictions upon the power of entry, and a suggestion had been made in various quarters that there should be inspection by some lay inspector, by some official under the Home Office, or Excise officer, or some such person. He thought it would be found in practice that even if it were feasible to appoint such inspectors, the clubs would have more reason to complain of undue interference than they would under the words of the clause. First of all, they could not undertake to appoint inspectors of that sort, nor to place the duty of inspecting the clubs upon the inspectors who now existed. He was astonished the other day to see it suggested by those interested in workmen's clubs that a health inspector or other inspector of a municipal authority should be allowed to go into the club. He should have thought that to invite an inspector of nuisances to go into a club would be very much worse than to invite an inspector of the police. In order further to meet any reasonable fears which might exist in the minds of some Members, he had given notice of an Amendment which followed the one he was now moving, to the effect that the officer before he inspected must have obtained a written authority for the purpose from a justice of the peace having jurisdiction in the place. He thought that would be ample security that the officers would not of their own free will and without any cause at all go into the premises. He did not think this inspection would be frequent, and the existing power to inspect would be found good in itself and would be a deterrent in the matter of bogus clubs. The inspect ion of the police would not be anything like that of a lay inspector, who might say "I have been appointed to this job, and I must go to work," and he might be constantly interfering with the convenience of members. Inasmuch as some inspection was necessary, he thought the Government had carefully restricted the inspection to the persons named in the clause.

Amendment proposed— In page 20, line 23, to leave out the words 'specially authorised for the purpose by the chief constable.'"—(Sir S. Evans.)

MR. ARTHUR HENDERSON (Durham, Barnard Castle)

thought the Solicitor-General had not quite done justice to those who had been inclined to support the Amendments on the Paper setting up lay inspectors. He did not oppose the Amendment, because those responsible for the Amendments setting up lay inspectors had not moved them. But it ought to be stated to the Committee on their behalf that they had something more than the mere inspection of premises in view. They were exceedingly anxious to keep the tone and standard of club life at as high a level as possible. They thought that if they could get a lay inspector he would not merely walk through the rooms constituting the club, and they had put on the Paper a further Amendment empowering him to inspect all the books and documents, in order that they might ascertain exactly who were the shareholders in any building. They were further anxious to find out whether the club was in some sense "tied," or under an obligation in any form to a single brewery company. Surely, taking these Amendments as a whole, they were doing that which, would have assisted in maintaining as high a standard as possible of club life. As to the point of a lay inspector constantly being "on the job," it did not follow that he would have nothing else to do than looking after clubs. They had had an idea it might have been an excise officer, but if the Solicitor-General thought an excise officer had already too much on his hands, that was a fair answer to their position. Their sole desire was to keep the standard of club life as high as possible.

MR. HART-DAVIES (Hackney, N.)

said he did not rise in any way to oppose the Amendment. The objection to an inspector in uniform entering a club might be a matter of sentiment, but he thought that it was a kind of sentiment which ought to be respected. At the same time he would have liked a more thorough lay inspector than the hon. Member for Barnard Castle seemed to suggest, one who would be in a position to look into the books and accounts, and he hoped when the Committee came to consider the Amendment on that point later on the Paper, the Government would accept it. He also hoped that it might be a lay inspector and not a police officer at all. He could not see why an inspector from the Home Office should not be appointed to examine the premises and see how the club was constituted; whether it was a bona fide club; and whether they could not do away with those things in club life which they wished to avoid. However, they felt grateful to the Government for the concessions they had made, especially when the inspector was to be empowered to make the inspection by an order of a justice of the peace.

MR. S. COLLINS (Lambeth, Kennington)

speaking on behalf of the clubs, thanked the Solicitor-General for the concession which he had made so far. But he thought that the Solicitor-General might go a little further and keep the policeman out altogether. That would please the clubs. There was a strong feeling throughout the clubs against a policeman in uniform going into their premises at all. It would be much better if a lay inspector could be appointed, and that might get over the difficulty. The Solicitor-General had said that a lay inspector would be a great nuisance, but he thought he would be welcomed by all well-conducted clubs, the members of which would be pleased to show him how well the clubs were managed, while, on the other hand, he would be a terror to evil-doers in the bogus clubs. As he had said, they were very much obliged for the concession so far, but they would feel still more grateful if the Solicitor-General would go the whole way and keep the policeman out, even with the order from a magistrate, and set up a lay inspector.

MR. EVELYN CECIL (Aston Manor)

said that if they were to have inspection at all, he entirely agreed with the Solicitor-General that a straightforward police officer was preferable to any other suggestions made in various quarters of the House.

Amendment agreed to.

SIR S. EVANS

moved to insert after the word "shall," the words "if he has obtained a, written authority for the purpose from a justice of the peace having jurisdiction in the place." He did not want to make any further observations except to call the attention of the Committee to a subsequent Amendment which would make it necessary for the police officer to produce the written authority by which he entered the club. That, he thought, would be an additional safeguard.

Amendment proposed— In page 20, line 23, after the word 'shall,' to insert the words 'if he has obtained a written authority for the purpose from a justice of the peace having jurisdiction in the place.'"—(Sir S. Evans.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

SIR F. BANBURY (City of London)

said that the production of a written authority was of very great importance, but he failed to see why it should not be signed by two justices of the peace. The Solicitor-General had talked about justices of the peace who were influenced by a desire to curry favour with the brewers or by other considerations. It might be possible that one justice of the peace would be in collusion with a particular society or a particular firm of brewers—he did not want to make any charge against temperance societies—with regard to the inspection of a club at a particular time. All he would have to do would be to call in some person to give information about a club, and then the particular justice would be on the spot to sign the authority, and the matter would be at an end. He knew from his own experience on the bench that there were many precedents for two justices of the peace having to sign an authority. That being so, he did not see why the Solicitor-General, who had made a certain concession in this direction, should not go further and say that two justices, in stead of one, should sign the authority. There would be no difficulty in getting the signature of two justices, and he hoped that the hon. Members below the Gangway would support him. To put himself in order he begged to move to leave out the words "a justice," and insert the words "two justices."

Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment— In line 2, to leave out the words 'a justice,' in order to insert the words 'two justices.'"—(Sir F. Banbury.)

Question proposed, "That the words 'a justice' stand part of the proposed Amendment."

MR. ARTHUR HENDERSON

hoped the Government would not accept this Amendment. They had to recollect that these clubs were growing up very considerably in the country districts. Those Members who represented county divisions knew the extreme difficulty there was at present in finding one magistrate. [An HON. MEMBER: Not at all.] He was giving his own experience. He represented a division thirty-six miles long, and in some parts of his district they had got to go five, six, or seven miles to find one magistrate. It was not very easy for them to get a magistrate appointed; although it might have been easy for his hon. friends above the Gangway to get magistrates appointed when they were in power. The difficulty of securing a magistrate to sign an authority would be very great if an objection against a club was to be lodged. The objector would have to travel not only six miles to find one magistrate, but more than six miles to find two. This Amendment of the right hon. Baronet would reduce the power of objection to a farce, and he sincerely trusted that the Government would stick to their own Amendment.

*SIR J. JARDINE (Roxburghshire)

thought that the hon. Member for the City of London was thinking of cases where deliberation ought to take place; but there were many cases where speed was of the essence of justice, and one of these was where there was suspicion as to the proceedings of a club. From personal experience he knew the difficulty of finding even one justice in country districts, for example, to deal with military deserters arrested by a village policeman; and he thought that the proposal as it stood was reasonable, especially when they considered the difficulty of getting two justices except on the days when they met in Petty Sessions.

MR. RICHARDSON (Nottingham, S.)

said he did not oppose the Amendment of the Solicitor-General, but he thought that some weight should be attached to the statement of the hon. Baronet the Member for the City of London. He represented a city in which there was a real danger in relation to clubs. The hon. Member for Roxburghshire said that speed was sometimes the essence of justice; but justice should be the very essence of this Bill, and he was afraid that unless the hon. Baronet's Amendment was carried, sometimes justice would not be done to some of the clubs in the City of Nottingham. In his city they had 1,000 licences, and one brewery owned 160 of them. They had three magistrates who were either directors or trustees for the debenture-holders of the brewery company, and if the Amendment were carried, and it was in the interest of the brewers to close the clubs, it would be very easy for one of those directors or trustees of this particular brewery to sign a warrant ordering the inspection of a club with a view to getting it closed in order that they might be assisted to carry on their business in their licensed houses. If this question was carried to a division he should certainly vote against the Government.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY (Yorkshire, N.R., Thirsk)

thought the Government would do well to accept the Amendment. He could not follow the argument of the hon. Member for Barnard Castle. He represented a large county constituency, and agreed with him that in some cases it was difficult to get hold of magistrates; but, although it might, be difficult for the working-man to do so, he did not think it was in the least degree difficult for the police or the chief constable to find two magistrates, because that was what they had to do in the course of their ordinary duty. When an authority was required, there would be no obstacle to the police officer getting it in any Petty Sessional Court in which magistrates sat very frequently. It would be quite easy for any police constable to get an authorisation from two justices of the pea-e when they were setting. He thought the hon. Member for Barnard Castle overlooked the fact that it would not be the working man or anybody who was unofficial who would have to get this consent from the magistrates. It would be for the police. He hoped the Government would reconsider their view on this Amendment, because, after all, as the old saying ran: "Two heads are better than one." If they put the duty on two justices they would be less likely to have inspection ordered where it was unnecessary, and they would have a safeguard against one fanatical justice of the peace, who might wish to have this inspection carried out very frequently and who would see to it that such inspection was arranged. The importance of this turned upon the words which came later in the clause, "at any time," because, as he understood it, this authorisation by the justices would not be for a particular entrance by a police constable on a particular day, or at a specified time, but would be a general authorisation, running for a considerable period. If that was the case, he certainly thought the more closely it was safeguarded the better. Therefore, he had great pleasure in supporting the Amendment of his hon. friend.

MR. W. E. HARVEY (Derbyshire, N.E.)

hoped that the Government, would stand by this clause. It might be that the party opposite were more favourably situated in regard to justices of the peace, because their party had been in power for twenty years, than were the supporters of His Majesty's Government, but in some instances there would be difficulty experienced in country districts in obtaining the signature; of two justices. He would give an illustration. He represented a county constituency, and he had some knowledge of what the difficulty was there, where there was only one magistrate of his own particular persuasion. One was, therefore, inclined to be a little suspicious with regard to this matter. In regard to exemption orders for vaccination, men were put to very great inconvenience in county constituencies, having at a week-end to go three or four miles to get them from magistrates. The clubs' association of the country were satisfied with one magistrate. He, therefore, hoped the Solicitor-General would stand firm in regard to it, in the interest of rural districts and those large places where it was most difficult to obtain a magistrate. In so doing, the hon. and learned Member would be doing justice to the people.

MR. GOULDING (Worcester)

thanked the Solicitor-General for his Amendment, which was, he thought, undoubtedly a great improvement on the clause as it stood, but he suggested that the hon. and learned Gentleman should go a little further towards meeting the views of the Opposition, and accept the proposal of his hon. friend the Member for the City of London. It was really a most important innovation that the Committee was proceeding to make, viz., to invade the domicile of the individual. Whether it was the case of a single person or of that of a number, certainly where men gathered together under the law of the land they had an absolute right that every security should be taken to prevent intrusion on their domains, except on very well-founded grounds. To his mind the Solicitor-General had gone some way to allay uneasiness in insisting that this intrusion should only take place after permission had been obtained and careful inquiry made by one magistrate; but it was idle to say that in every district they could absolutely rely on the discretion of one magistrate in relation to this great innovation in the amenities of club life. If he wanted, an illustration of this he need not go any further than the statement of the hon. Gentleman opposite that there was only one magistrate in his district of his political persuasion. It was evident that in the hon. Member's district people were inclined to canvass the political persuasions and beliefs of the different magistrates, instead of going to them as men who had to dispense justice irrespective of creed, politics, or any other personal consideration. He was not quite certain, but the Solicitor-General would set him right if he was not accurate, but as he understood it, at the present time, when friendly societies or other bodies or individuals required an extension of hours—required what was called a temporary licence, which was often an off-licence—that application was put down to come on before two magistrates. He had sat for a great number of years for a county constituency, and he had never known a case yet, where a friendly society desired to get an extension for an evening's entertainment, where they had found a difficulty in coming across the necessary number of magistrates. In spite of what his noble friend said there still seemed to be some misapprehension on the part of the Committee with regard to who was to get these orders. The hon. Member for Derbyshire spoke of the difficulty in finding magistrates by those desiring relief under the vaccination, laws, but it was not the individuals here who had to seek the magistrates, but the paid police officials of the country, and it was and would be part of their ordinary every day duty. It was men who would be brought frequently in contact with the magistrates, and would, therefore, be in a position to have some knowledge of where they were likely to catch or get hold of these individual men. If they were any good as constables or police officers they would know what were the ordinary avocations of these magistrates, and therefore it was all moonshine to say that there would be any difficulty whatever in getting hold of two magistrates to give a written authority. What they ought to do was to safeguard in every way the abuse of this power of intrusion into genuine club's, and that could only be done by saying that there should be more than one head to be consulted, when permission for the intrusion was applied for. His hon. friend below him had suggested a very reasonable Amendment. They were told a great deal about the sparsity of magistrates throughout the country, but he thought that almost the chief occupation of the Lord Chancellor since the Prime Minister came into office had been in increasing the number of magistrates on the bench. The noble and learned Lord had appointed fifty or 100 magistrates, and was still at it. He understood that his whole time was occupied in meeting these hon. gentlemen. [An HON. MEMBER: He has a lot to do.] He dared say he had, and he might keep the party together by these means.

THE CHAIRMAN

reminded the hon. Member that he was wandering from the Amendment.

MR. GOULDING

said he was pointing out that the magistracy had been materially increased, and there were also the ex officio magistrates in each district, who were always, in his experience, to be got at—["Oh."]—for the purpose of obtaining their judicial consideration of applications made to them. These were men having the confidence of the people among whom they lived. He again appealed to the Solicitor-General, to whose courtesy and consideration in the conduct of this Bill everyone would bear testimony, to meet the views of those on that side of the House, and thus save a great deal of difficulty on the consideration of further Amendments. He was in communication with several clubs throughout the country from time to time, but he had not heard from any of the members of those clubs that the written authority of one magistrate would meet their views. All of them detested the idea of a policeman intruding into the domain of their clubs, and he failed to understand how hon. Members who were connected with clubs could say that they would be satisfied with the signature of one magistrate. This was the first time the Solicitor-General's Amendment had been, put down, and if the hon. and learned Gentleman had told the Committee that he had been in communication with all the multitudinous clubs in the country, and found they were all in favour of his proposal, that would be a different matter. The hon. and learned Gentleman might have seen Mr. Hall, of the Working Men's Club and Institute Union, but it was impossible for him to have tested the view of the multitudinous clubs throughout the country. He hoped the hon. and learned Gentleman would accept the Amendment of the hon. Baronet, and thus secure the better working of this clause and prevent that tyranny and espionage which might be carried on under its provisions.

SIR S. EVANS

said he had listened attentively to the arguments to see on which side the balance lay. The Government was very anxious not to interfere unduly with the rights and liberties of bona fide clubs, and had, therefore, put in the safeguards already accepted, but it was very important not to put any unnecessary difficulty in the way of a police officer who thought it his duty to go into a club. He therefore thought it should be left to one justice. Justices were not always at home, and there might be a difficulty in finding a second one, and whilst the police officer might be seeking for a second justice to sign his authority the very thing that he had reason to suppose was going on in a particular club might be caused to disappear. It was quite true that he had not had an opportunity of consulting all the multitudinous clubs in the country. The office he held was not a sinecure. There were only twenty-four hours in a day and seven days in a week. He had, however, had an expression of opinion from many Members of the House who were in touch with these clubs. The hon. Baronet had said they required the consent of two magistrates before they could have an "occasional" licence to sell liquor for a temporary purpose, such as a fair, a dance, or something of that sort. That was quite a different matter. That was asking for a licence to sell liquor at a particular place at which there was not a licence, but really he might appeal to the reason of the hon. Baronet and remind him that one justice could grant a search warrant, and that a search warrant not only authorised a police constable to go into premises, but to go in by force, seize papers, and take the names of all the people present.

LORD BALCARRES (Lancashire, Charley)

remarked that he did not like the simile of the Solicitor-General, nor did he think it applied, inasmuch as clubs were not criminals. Of course, the consent of one justice was sufficient for a search-warrant where they had to deal with a criminal, but even then one process was not sufficient. They must first lay the information. One justice only was necessary in the case of a criminal. It seemed to him that the chief objection to two magistrates was lack of convenience. An hon. Member had spoken about the outlandish districts in Derbyshire, where the magistrates lived ten miles apart, and might be absent from their homes on business or pleasure; but these were not districts where these clubs existed. The hon. Member had given the only pertinent reason against the Amendment from the Liberal point of view which had yet been delivered.

MR. W. E. HARVEY

said that in his division there had not been a justice appointed during this Parliament.

LORD BALCARRES

said that that was possibly because one was not wanted or else there was no gentleman sufficiently Radical to make a magistrate. He did not believe there would be any real difficulty in getting the signatures of two magistrates. It would be a guarantee that two men in authority should sanction the intrusion of the police into private and well-conducted clubs.

MR. NUSSEY (Pontefract)

was extremely glad the Solicitor-General had proposed this Amendment. It was suggested by hon. Members opposite that the signature of two magistrates should be obtained, but that he thought was not necessary. He would, however, like to know how long it was intended that the permit should last. There was nothing that he could see to prevent a permit being held by the police for two or three months, whilst they lay in wait for the club. He thought such a thing as that ought to be safeguarded against.

MR. COURTHOPE (Sussex, Rye)

said the point just raised was of great importance. The Amendment, he thought, as it stood, should not be made. He hoped some assurance would be given that a permit for an indefinite time would, not be granted. He quite recognised the view of the Government, who wished to secure the supervision of a club whenever it was thought the management required looking into, but everybody would agree that such supervision should be so guarded that it should, not become persecution. They were, therefore, entitled to press for an assurance from the Government that a strict limit of time should be given to the powers under this clause. He did not agree with the hon. Member opposite that there would be a difficulty in getting two magistrates. He sat on a county bench which met once a month, and there would be no difficulty whatever in getting two magistrates together. No difficulty arose in practice, and whenever it was really required that two magistrates should be got together they were always found. The learned Solicitor-General had said that in the case of occasional licences it was always known some time beforehand that they would be wanted, but that was not always the case. It constantly happened that a sudden demand for an occasional licence arose, and the legislature had thought right that it should not be too easy to obtain it, and had said that two magistrates should be necessary. It often happened that an occasional licence was obtained from two magistrates, and he thought the same thing should apply in the case of a request for a permit to enter a club. It should not be made too easy to obtain. It should be possible, if the police had a strong suspicion that a club was conducted in such a way as to require inspection, for that inspection to take place, but there should be no persecution or annoyance. He was certain that if the hon. Baronet's Amendment was accepted it would not be any check upon the adequate supervision of these clubs, but it would prevent the police running a possible risk of refusal by going on more or less trifling grounds. The learned Solicitor-General must see that it would not in any way prevent, or even make it difficult to obtain the inspection of a club, and it would secure the clubs against anything in the way of frivolous annoyance. He thought the claim set up that the clubs were satisfied with one justice was perfectly preposterous. He had no hesitation whatever in saying that the clubs were not satisfied, and could not be satisfied, with one justice. It was impossible that more than a very small proportion of the clubs could even have been approached on the subject. He doubted whether any had, and even if some secretary of an association of clubs had been approached, and had given his grudging approval, he was sure that opinion did not represent the opinion of the majority of the clubs in the country. They had not been consulted, they did not consent, and he was certain they would not express their approval of this proposal that one justice's authorisation would be sufficient.

*MR. VERNEY (Buckinghamshire, N.)

said it seemed to him that the clause had been rather too widely drafted, and that the net had been cast rather too far. He thought it a very important point that they should know what the words "at any time" meant. He believed it meant at all reasonable hours, but he did not think it was so worded as to define that moaning. There was another matter in which he thought the clause was worded too widely. The chief constable of a county could go into any other county as it was now worded, but he was sure the Government did not mean that. He thought it should be confined to any chief constable of a county or borough in which the club in question was situated.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said they had better not discuss the whole clause now. With regard to the order lasting for any time he had had another Amendment handed in, which he thought it would be convenient to take after the Solicitor-General's Amendment had been disposed of.

*MR. VERNEY

said the object of everybody in the House was that there should be efficient control when there was a prima facie case of something unlawful going on, but still there should be no humiliation imposed on those clubs which did not deserve it. Having been connected with clubs for very many years, he thought above all things, when anything wrong was going on in a club, that the sooner it was detected the better. The best means of stopping that wrong was for the committee themselves to take the matter up and deal with it, and in this case, no outside inspection would be wanted.

THE CHAIRMAN

The hon. Member is out of order in discussing that.

SIR S. EVANS

said he would be very sorry to appear to be giving with one hand what another took away. It was never intended that the power to enter should be absolutely indefinite, and he did not think the words carried that meaning, but he was quite willing to make a provision that the authority should not be an unlimited authority. To make it unlimited would be really to sweep away the safeguards provided already.

*MR. REES

said there was some difficulty in getting two justices of the peace in other places, without going into the bye-ways of Derbyshire. He would answer for it that in Middlesex, which bench was very largely staffed, the difficulty sometimes occurred perhaps because the magistrates were for the most part men with other occupations and not so often country gentlemen as in other counties. But there was a difficulty in getting two magistrates in Middlesex sometimes, whatever the cause might be, and the fact was relevant to the present Amendment.

SIR F. BANBURY

said the people who had to get the signatures of the two magistrates were the police, and there could be no difficulty in doing that. Further, he would point out that as far as he knew in the remote country districts, where all this difficulty was to be anticipated, country clubs of this sort did not exist. The great majority of these clubs existed in large towns, and to say that the chief constable or inspector of a large town would have a difficulty in finding two magistrates was absolutely ludicrous. Of course, in any town where there was a stipendiary magistrate his signature would be sufficient.

SIR FRANCIS CHANNING

said he would like to remind the Committee that the three Acts dealing with clubs passed by the party opposite, in granting search warrants, granted them on the signature of a single magistrate and also included the words "at any time." He recalled those words for their reflection.

MR. CARLILE (Hertfordshire, St. Albans)

said the Solicitor-General had given them the best of all grounds for appointing two magistrates, for he had said that while the chief constable was proceeding in search of a second justice the cause of the complaint might be removed. Their desire was to do away with the cause of complaint, and if the addition of one justice to the one proposed by the Solicitor-General would have the immediate effect, without any further proceedings, of doing away with, the ground of complaint, he thought that was the strongest reason for suggesting that two should be required. In country places clubs did not often exist, and in towns he did not suppose that there would be any difficulty in obtaining the signatures of two magistrates. He did not quite follow the [...]oning of the Solicitor-General, that when the chief constable was seen to visit the office or home of one of the justices, those interested in a club would at once believe that a raid was going to be made upon their premises. If obtaining the signatures of two justices would wipe out the cause of complaint, then by all means let the Committee appoint two justices to sign these permits.

MR. HUNT (Shropshire, Ludlow)

said that if the hon. Baronet went to a division he should certainly support him, because after all, two magistrates were better than one in a matter of this sort; but if the Government thought the working men of the country were going to stand a detective going into their clubs either on the written authority of one or of two justices he could assure them they were mistaken. Somebody had said that clubs had been consulted. He had consulted the clubs in his district, and they were very definite about it; they would have no detective in their clubs.

MR. REMNANT (Finsbury, Holborn)

said the hon. Baronet opposite had made a point which showed that he apparently did not understand the question they were discussing, for he had remarked that there was only necessity for the signature of one justice for a search warrant in a criminal case.

*SIR FRANCIS CHANNING

said the "search warrant" procedure in the three Acts he referred to was solely directed to determining whether the club was so managed and carried on as to constitute a ground for striking it off the register. The procedure was therefore absolutely ad rem to the precise point under discussion.

MR. REMNANT

said the explanation of the hon. Baronet showed that this subject required a great deal more discussion than it had received. No mention was made in the clause about the signature of a justice, but the moment, he supposed, that pressure was brought to bear on the Government—

SIR S. EVANS

It has had due consideration.

MR. REMNANT

said that when the Government saw what the effect of the clause would be, namely, unnecessary hardship on the bona-fide clubs, then they gave it due consideration, and proposed that the signature of one justice should be obtained before a club was entered. But the time of entry was the essence of the matter, and it was not likely that an entry would be made without consideration. It must be admitted on all sides, with the number of magistrates appointed to-day, that there would be no difficulty whatever in finding two magistrates to give the necessary signatures. Unless the times of entry were reduced to a very small limit, it seemed to him that the general course of events would necessitate a general permit of the chief constable, or some superior officer, to go into club premises at any time. Speaking as a London Member, he must say that both the clause and the Amendment were most unsatisfactory. Apparently a justice in one part of London might give permission to enter a club in another part of London. To say that in a city like London, and many other great cities throughout the country, it would be difficult to get the signatures of two magistrates to a written permit to enter clubs was really taxing their credulity too far. The hon. Member for Derbyshire had stated that in his division there was only one Radical magistrate, and that it would be absurd to expect to get two signatures. Apparently the inference was that two Radical magistrates would sign the necessary permit. He was sure that the vast majority of hon. Members on both sides of the House were anxious that politics should be left out of the licensing question, and, where it was a question of giving a permit, he believed the hon. Member himself, keen politician though he was, would be guided by commonsense and the necessities of the case. The Amendment of his hon. friend was a reasonable one, and he hoped that the Government, who professed themselves anxious not to put unnecessary hardships on bona-fide clubs in the way of inquisitorial entries, would accept it. They were all anxious to promote bona - fide clubs, and bona-fide working men's clubs throughout the country ought to be encouraged rather than discouraged. The sooner drinking dens were suppressed the better. It was because he believed that the Amendment of the hon. Baronet was conducive to the end they had in view that he should certainly support him if he went to a division.

COLONEL LOCKWOOD (Essex, Epping)

in regard to obtaining the signatures of two justices, pointed out that if there was a dangerous lunatic living in a street, it was necessary to obtain a certain number of magistrates' signatures before he could be removed. He thought the number of signatures to be obtained should be two. Surely, if that was the case in reference to the removal of a lunatic, it was not too much to ask that two signatures should be necessary for the examination

of the premises of a club. He thought that a very fair statement of the case, and unless the Government met them, he trusted that his hon. friend would go to a division.

*MR. REES

, who rose amid cries of "Divide," protested against the assumption that no Member on that side of the House could usefully address the Committee unless he took it for granted t[...] every publican was a miserable sinner, and every brewer A son of Belial Blown with insolence and wine. He was only going to ask the Solicitor - General whether, after this discussion, which had been short enough in regard to this serious matter, he would consider if the Government could not differentiate between the case of towns above a certain limit of population, so as to make two justices necessary there, while retaining the original provision of one justice of the peace in regard to country districts. He trusted he had not overstrained the patience of the Committee in making this suggestion.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 155; Noes, 61. (Division List No.: 339.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Harcourt, Rt. Hn. L. (Rossendale
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose)
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W.	Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Compton-Rickett, Sir J.	Karmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Hart-Davies, T.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight	Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.
Barker, John	Cory, Sir Clifford John	Harwood, George
Barlow, Peery (Bedford)	Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)
Barnes, G. N.	Curran, Peter Francis	Haworth, Arthur A.
Beale, W. P.	Davies, David (Montgomery Co.	Helme, Norval Watson
Brace, William	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)
Branch, James	Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)	Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.)
Brigg, John	Erskine, David C.	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)
Brodie, H. C.	Esslemont, George Birnie	Higham, John Sharp
Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)	Evans, Sir Samuel T.	Hobart, Sir Robert
Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T. (Cheshire	Ferens, T. R.	Hodge, John
Bryce, J. Annan	Fuller, John Michael F.	Horniman, Emslie John
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Fullerton, Hugh	Hudson, Walter
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Hutton, Alfred Eddison
Byles, William Pollard	Glendinning, R. G.	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred
Cameron, Robert	Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford	Jardine, Sr. J.
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Gooch, George Peabody (Bath)	Jones, Leif (Appleby)
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Grant, Corrie	Laidlaw, Robert
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Clough, William	Gurdon, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Brampton	Lamont, Norman
Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis	Priestley, W. E. B. (Bradford, E.)	Strachey, Sir Edward
Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington	Rainy, A. Rolland	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Lupton, Arnold	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Summerbell, T.
Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Rees, J. D.	Sutherland, J. E.
Lyell, Charles Henry	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Richardson, A.	Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)
Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs	Ridsdale, E. A.	Toulmin, George
Maclean, Donald	Roberts, Charles N. (Lincoln)	Ure, Alexander
Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Verney, F. W.
M'Callum, John M.	Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs.)	Walters, John Tudor
Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Wardle, George J.
Marnham, F. J.	Robinson, S.	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan
Massie, J.	Robson, Sir William Snowdon	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Molteno, Percy Alport	Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)	Waterlow, D. S.
Mond, A.	Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Montagu, Hon. E. S.	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.	White, Sir George (Norfolk)
Murray, Capt. Hn. A. C. (Kincard	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	White, J. Dundas (Dumbart'nsh
Nicholls, George	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Nussey, Thomas Willans	Sears, J. E.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Parker, James (Halifax)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	Wills, Arthur Walters
Paulton, James Mellor	Sloan, Thomas Henry	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	Winfrey, R.
Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Soares, Ernest J.	Wood, T. M'Kinnon.
Perks, Sir Robert William	Spicer, Sir Albert
Phillips, John (Longford, S.)	Stanley, Hn. A. Lydulph (Chesh.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—MR.
Pirie, Duncan V.	Steadman, W. C."	Joseph Pease and Mr. Herbert
Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H.	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)	Lewis.
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex F.	Guinness, Hon. R. (Haggerston)	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Harrison-Broadley, H. B.	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Balcarres, Lord	Heaton, John Henniker	Seddon, J.
Baldwin, Stanley	Helmsey, Viscount	Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond)	Hill, Sir Clement	Stanier, Beville
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield)	Starkey, John R.
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.	Hunt, Rowland	Stone, Sir Benjamin
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.	Thorne, William (West Ham)
Bowerman, C. W.	Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.	Valentia, Viscount
Bowles, G. Stewart	Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham	Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S)	Walsh, Stephen
Carlile, E. Hildred	Lowe, Sir Francis William	Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Morrison-Bell, Captain	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Cheetham, John Frederick	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Courthope, G. Loyd	Oddy, John James	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Craik, Sir Henry	O'Grady, J.	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Du Cros, Arthur Philip	Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington	Young, Samuel
Faber, George Denison (York)	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Fletcher, J. S.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir
Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)	Remnant, James Farquharson	Frederick Banbury and Mr.
Gooch, Henry Cubitt (Peckham)	Renton, Leslie	Goulding.
Gretton, John	Renwick, George

Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

*MR. G. D. FABER

said he frankly confessed that he was in some difficulty in this matter as to the particular form of words that was most appropriate for the object he wished to achieve. The Solicitor-General had been good enough to say he would accept the spirit of the Amendment.

SIR S. EVANS

There is no objection to the form of words.

*MR. G. D. FABER

said he wished to change "fourteen days" in his tabulated Amendment to "seven days." But the Amendment did not even now altogether meet their desire, which was that the right of entry on the magistrate's authority should be limited to one occasion, and that the police officer should not be allowed to make, say, seven entries within seven days. What they wanted was that there should be one entry within the space of seven days, to see whether the club was or was not being properly conducted.

Amendment proposed— '"After the words last inserted, to insert the words 'provided such written authority shall only remain in force for the space of seven days from the date of the issue thereof.'"—(Mr. G. D. Faber.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

SIR S. EVANS

said it would never do to say that the police under the written authority of the justice should only enter once. If he had authority for a week or a fortnight or a month, as the case might be, he might find it absolutely necessary to enter on more than one day. They could not possibly confine the entry to one occasion. The whole object of giving the right of inspection would be defeated. With regard to the proviso, they never intended that the authority once given should be absolutely unlimited. That would be unfair. He would be taking away with one hand what he was giving with the other. He might tell the hon. Member what course he had proposed to adopt. When he heard the Amendment read from the Chair that the authority should be limited in its operation to fourteen days, he had intended to say that he was even more reasonable than the hon. Member, and was going to suggest seven days. That having been the course he had intended to take, he had great pleasure in accepting the Amendment.

MR. REMNANT

said that as he read the section, in conjunction with the Amendment, this was not a particular entry for a particular club, but it would be a permit to enter any club.

SIR S. EVANS

A particular club.

MR. REMNANT

It does not say so. Does it mean that?

SIR S. EVANS

assented.

Amendment agreed to.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

thought they ought to have a discussion on the point whether power was to be given to an inspector to enter any club at any specified time. He felt very strongly that they ought not to give the police, even within the seven days, power to go in at all times. There ought to be some Amendment to ensure that it should be only at a reasonable time or at a particular time specified on the authority.

Amendment proposed— In page 20, line 24, after the word 'any,' to insert the word 'specified.'"—(Viscount Helmsley.)

Question proposed, "That the word 'specified' be there inserted."

SIR S. EVANS

said the noble Lord would see that it was absolutely impossible to accept the Amendment. It would raise the question of what was Greenwich time. Supposing the justice in his authority said the specified time was to be 12.30. If it happened to be 12.31 before the policeman arrived at the premises he could not cuter at all. That was the effect of the Amendment, and it would be doing away entirely with the benefits of the right of inspection to accept any Amendment of the sort.

MR. WALTER LONG (Dublin, S.)

said the Solicitor-General had given an interpretation which he had no doubt was accurate, but it was quite obvious that his answer was not a reply to the argument of his noble friend, who sought, not to impose the limitation suggested by the interpretation given by the Solicitor-General, but to limit the occasions on which the police were to exercise their right. It would be obviously quite easy to alter the language. He understood the hon. and learned Gentleman's view to be that if the police were to perform these duties satisfactorily, they must have a discretion as to the number of times they visited a club. He agreed with the Solicitor-General, and he did not think he could support his noble friend in imposing a limitation of this kind upon the police. It was obvious that it would be impossible for the police to ascertain whether their suspicions were well-founded or not until they were able to make more than one visit. He entirely disapproved of these powers, which he regarded as utterly futile and most vexatious attempts to interfere with clubs. He believed when it was known that a policeman, under an order from one magistrate, could enter a club whenever he liked, it would create in the minds of people who used clubs a very unsatisfactory feeling as to the Government that gave him that power.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

, having regard to the very excellent reason advanced by the right hon. Gentleman why he did not think the Amendment a good one—a reason which certainly had great influence with him—asked leave to withdraw it.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

*MR, G. D. FABER

thought the hon. and learned Gentleman would accept his Amendment which followed, in order to make perfectly clear and coherent the Amendment which had been accepted a few moments ago.

Amendment proposed— In page 20, line 24, to leave out the word 'time,' and to substitute the word 'hour.'"—(Mr. G. D. Faber.)

Question proposed. "That the word 'time' stand part of the clause.

SIR S. EVANS

did not think there was much difference between the two words, and, therefore, he could not of course accept this one. Might he give one illustration. Supposing a policeman was able to ride in a motor car and it broke down, and he could not get there in time. What then?

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. BOWLES (Lambeth, Norwood)

moved an Amendment to secure that the officer should have the power to enter and inspect only the club named in the authority given to him. The clause gave the officer power to enter "any club." He could not conceive that it was the intention of the Solicitor-General that because a magistrate had empowered a police constable to enter a club he should have power to enter the Carlton Club or any other club in the Kingdom. He begged to move.

Amendment proposed— In page 20, line 25, after the word 'club,' to insert the words 'named in the written authority.'"—Mr. Bowles.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

SIR S. EVANS

said he did not agree that the words were necessary, but he would not say that there might not be some doubt on the matter. Therefore, he had pleasure in accepting the Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

MR. EVELYN CECIL

moved an Amendment to the effect that the police officer when exercising his power under the section should be in uniform. He thought this kind of inspection should be done in a plain and straightforward manner. It was obviously desirable that this official should not enter clubs disguised as a spy. He believed he was expressing the opinion of almost every club in the kingdom in saying that they felt somewhat indignant that a slur of this kind should be put upon them especially in view of the enormous number of well-conducted clubs. If this inspection was going to take place, they ought to have a police officer to do it whose duty was largely that of inspecting, and who should enter clubs openly in uniform, instead of spying upon clubs in the way proposed, which was quite unjustifiable.

Amendment pro posed— In page 20, line 27, to leave out the word 'not.'"—(Mr. Evelyn Cecil.)

Question proposed, "That the word 'not' stand part of the clause."

SIR S. EVANS

replied that he believed the general feeling in the House was that the word "not" should be retained, and that the police officer should not be in uniform on such occasions. The officer would be much more prominent in uniform.

MR. STUART WORTLEY (Sheffield, Hallam)

remarked that when he had the pleasure the other day of listening to the Prime Minister's exposition of this Bill he afterwards asked himself whether the provision that a constable should not enter a club in uniform was a concession, or the reverse. He confessed that he did not know what the feeling among members of these clubs was on this point, and he would be glad if some hon. Member below the gangway would inform the Committee.

MR. ARTHUR HENDERSON

hoped the Amendment would not be pressed. He had been brought closely into contact not only with the representatives of the Working Men's Club and Institute Union, but with representative clubs in different parts of the country. He could assure the Committee that the provision that the police officer should not be in uniform was regarded as a concession. The desire was to keep clubs what they were intended to be by the best committees, namely, the means of healthy recreation, affording opportunities for social intercourse apart altogether from the idea of the public-house. They felt that if a police officer was to march up in uniform entering what was not exactly a home, but was to some extent used in that sense, it would constitute an interference which would be strongly resented by the members. He appealed to his hon. friend not to press his Amendment.

MR. LAMBTON (Durham, S.E.)

said that this was a matter which went much further than the mere question of uniform. Under this provision a police-constable could without uniform walk into a club in Pall Mall. If he was only coming to inspect the premises why should the official not be in uniform? If he was un-uniformed he might walk through the rooms as a detective and a spy, and if he saw a member of the club lying asleep in an armchair presumably it would be his business to wake up that man and see whether he was drunk or sober. For a constable to enter the rooms of a club in plain clothes was a tyrannical domiciliary visit more suited to Russia than to England. He objected to such visits altogether. They were contrary to the spirit of Englishmen. He appealed to the hon. Member for Barnard Castle to consider whether it would not be better that this police inspection for good and bona fide clubs should be made by uniformed officers. He could not conceive that any working man's club would consider it a slur if the inspector came in uniform. The fact that the inspector came in uniform would not in the least reduce the club to the level of a public-house. As a matter of fact the Bill itself did much to bring clubs into the same category as public-houses. This Bill, by restrictive legislation, aimed at the reduction of the number of public-houses and by stringent rules they were reducing clubs simply to institutions-under the control of the police. If this kind of inspection was to be done at all it ought to be done openly, and the police should enter clubs in uniform.

*MR. EVELYN CECIL

, in reply to the hon. Member for Barnard Castle, said that the Report of the Working Men's Club and Institute Union stated most explicitly that they supported his Amendment. It stated that the Athenæum and the village clubs were at one on this question, and spoke of the official out of uniform as a "sneaking spy."

MR. WALTER LONG

submitted that, apart from any evidence in support of the view that clubs did not desire to have inspection by un-uniformed officials, there was a question of wide principle involved. In common fairness, ordinary members of the club who knew nothing about the visit in advance, ought to be aware that there was a stranger on the premises authorised to be there for the purpose. How was any member of a club to know whether the stranger whom he spied in the club was a newly-elected member or a police official if that official was not in uniform. He did not himself share the feeling of dislike to a constable in uniform. That officer was not regarded with so much disfavour as a disguised policeman. If there was misconduct going on in a club, the fact that the inspecting officer was in uniform would not prevent it. If the officer went there with his identity concealed, in order to find out things which he could not find out if his presence were known, then they were adopting a procedure which was altogether un-English. When they gave the right of entry to a policeman for the purpose of ascertaining by his own observation what the conduct of a club was like, surely the officer ought to go in uniform. He submitted that in common fairness the members of a club ought to know that a policeman was on the premises, so that they might be in a position to defend themselves in respect of any charge brought against them collectively or individually. They could not do so if a constable in plain clothes entered when the club was crowded with members in their convivial moments. The officer might go back to the police station and charge half-a-dozen of the members with being drank or quarrelsome, or with misbehaving themselves in some other way. What chance would they have of making their defence against such a charge? He had the utmost respect for the police as a body, but like other people they were liable to make mistakes. Everyone knew that mistakes were quite easily made as to whether a man was sober or not. If the police were to be allowed to make charges of that kind they should be made under conditions which would enable the persons charged to defend themselves. It was a matter of greater importance than the Committee seemed to realise. This was a novel procedure. The Committee were taking upon themselves the responsibility, no doubt with good reason, of imposing this disagreeable duty on the police. The Committee desired to put down clubs which were mere drinking shops, but in regard to this work of inspection they should remember that they were putting on the police the invidious and difficult task of obtaining evidence. If a constable entered in uniform, it was obvious that he was not so likely to be assaulted as an officer in plain clothes.

THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL,) Yorkshire, Cleveland

thought there would be considerable force in the argument of the right hon. Gentleman if they were dealing with casual persons who were allowed to enter clubs just when and how they liked.

MR. WALTER LONG

I do not know to how many clubs the hon. Gentleman belongs, but I am a member of a great many clubs, many of which I use frequently. To suggest that I could identify 30 or 40 per cent. of the members of every club to which I belong is to suggest something which is altogether unthinkable.

MR. HERBERT SAMUEL

said he did not suggest that the right hon. Gentleman could know every individual member, but he would remind him that, in every reputable workman's club registered under the Act of 1902, a visitors' book was kept at the entrance, and no stranger was admitted unless he was accompanied by a member.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

How about an affiliated member?

MR. HERBERT SAMUEL

replied that no person was admitted as an affiliated member unless he showed his card of affiliation, and the whole contention of the right hon. Gentleman fell to the ground for the simple reason that a police officer could not find his way into any properly conducted workman's club without showing the authorisation which he was required to produce. The purpose of the Government was simply to make this inspection as little irritating to clubs as possible, first by providing that it should be carried out by a superior officer, and not by the ordinary police constable, and, secondly, by providing that he was to be in plain clothes at the time. It would cause the greatest commotion and disturbance among members, and the greatest irritation—they would regard it as an insult—if, when they were spending a convivial evening, they were to have a police officer, clothed in the garb of his office, going through the various rooms of the club. As to the opinion of the clubs on the subject, he would remind the Committee that no Amendment had been put down to this particular provision by anyone who, on this portion of the Bill, had been representing the interests of the club.

MR. LAMBTON

said the hon. Gentleman had stated that it was not probable that a constable or inspector would be able to enter without indicating his policeman was to come identity. How were these gentlemen to enter the club rooms? Was an officer on entering a room to say: "I am an inspector," or was he to wander about while in the club without disclosing his identity?

MR. GOULDING

said the whole spirit of the clause was odious from start to finish, and he did not believe that it would in the least secure what the Government intended. The observations of the Under-Secretary showed that he was absolutely unacquainted with the working of clubs. It was absurd to say that if an officer in uniform went into a club the members would be alarmed. To his mind, the object of this individual's entering a club was to detect what he believed—though he did not know—was going on wrongly in the club. It was under the suspicion that drunkenness or some other abuse of its privileges had taken place that the inspector was to enter. The inspector had no right to go into the club otherwise, and unless he was in uniform what was he to do? Was he to go through the rooms and loiter and lounge about until he found some chance individual transgressing? The object of police inspection was that when a distinct charge had been made against a club or individuals in respect of their abusing their privileges the officer should go there openly to see whether the rules were being transgressed. He had always thought that a club was a place where men assembled who had thoughts in common as regarded politics and even as regarded religion, but if a stranger was allowed to enter and sit about in the guise of a spy the question could very well be asked: Where were the privileges connected with the club? The proposal was un-English and would never receive the assent of the people if the question were put to them. He hoped the Government would realise how detestable this clause was. The Government would not get over evils by introducing some Russian system of tyranny. He hoped the proposal would be opposed tooth and nail.

MR. HAET-DAVIES

said there had been a feeling in the clubs that if a policeman was to come in at all, it should be in uniform. But he admitted that during the last two or three months that feeling was not particularly keen, one way or another. No doubt in the better working men's clubs there was a register of members, and a porter at the door who knew all the members, so that it was very hard for a stranger to get in. The matter, however, was not one of supreme importance now that the officer making the visit was to be a superior officer, but he still held the view that, on the whole, clubs would prefer that the officer should be in uniform.

MR. PATRICK WHITE (Meath, N.)

said the Government wished to impose this clause from a consideration of the feelings of the members of the clubs. The Under-Secretary had stated that in the workmen's clubs which he had visited, a stranger's name was entered in a book and a certificate given. But that only occurred, in clubs where the rules prescribed it. How could, an ordinary club member, who only went there occasionally, distinguish between a member and a visitor introduced by a member, and a spy? He thought that any ordinary member of a club would prefer an officer in uniform to a detective in plain clothes who would watch his every movement. If inspection was necessary why should it be done by stealth or in an underhand way instead of in an open, manly way? He did not like a man whom he did not know to be at his elbow, spying everything he did, and listening to the private conversation of members. That would do away with the privacy of a club which should, be regarded as a home; and he hoped, the Government would respect the feelings of those who knew club life.

LORD BALCARRES

said that the Under-Secretary seemed, to endorse the view that members of a club would regard the visits of a police officer in uniform as an insult That was a very singular statement to come from a representative of the Home Office.

MR. HERBERT SAMUEL

I said it would, cause disturbance and commotion.

LORD BALCARRES

said that "insult" was the term the hon. Member used. There would, in his opinion, be less commotion in a club caused by the entrance of a policeman in uniform than there would be by the visit of a policeman in mufti. He had not the smallest hesitation in saying that, from his own experience of clubs, members of these institutions would much rather see a man in uniform and know who he was, and what his business was, than have the knowledge that, at any time, there might be a plain clothes man on the premises looking about in order to find out something that he might bring against the club or any individual member. The Under-Secretary had spoken about door-keepers of a club. Of course, in grand clubs, such as the Athenæum and other West-End clubs, there were door-keepers; but the average artisans' clubs in Lancashire which he knew could not afford to pay £60 or £70 a year for doorkeepers. Anyone could walk in and out of these clubs, where there was only a general factotum who went about from room to room to see that nobody was present who was not authorised to be there, and who, if he found such a man, would ask him what his business was. The hon. Member for Bethnal Green only spoke of clubs in his own constituency, where there was one of the finest in the kingdom and where there was a door-keeper. But in ordinary clubs, where there was the greatest danger of abuse, they could not always have a man at the door to check the entrance of strangers. He stated unhesitatingly that unless they wanted to create a reaction against legislation of this character, everything should be done to circumscribe and allay the irritation which it would inevitably arouse. Which would cause the maximum of espionage? The visits of a plain clothes man or a policeman in uniform? He held strongly to the opinion that if there was to be inspection of clubs, inspection by a uniformed policeman would cause far less irritation than in spection by a plainclothes man; and that was the opinion of the members of artizans' clubs in his constituency.

*MR. GEORGE ROBERTS (Norwich)

, said that when the Bill was first intro- duced very strong resentment was manifested against police inspection, especially by men in uniform; and that was why they desired that lay officers should be appointed for the purpose. They had to disabuse their minds of the idea that this inspection could be a form of spying, and also to consider the concessions which had been made by the Government. First of all, he admitted that the clubs would have to be under some kind of inspection; but what would be the procedure? There would be some feeling in the neighbourhood that a club was not properly conducted, and complaints would have to be made to the chief constable. If that official was assured that the complaint was well established, he had to get the signature of a justice of the peace to a right of entry, and the inspector would have to produce that authorisation at the door. He had been a secretary of a club and could approach this matter from a practical point of view. In his club members of the committee took their turn of duty at the door to see that no visitors entered without proper introduction. He himself had been on duty at the door, and if a member desired to introduce a visitor, a book had to be signed. The same was the case with all registered clubs, so that it was impossible for an unknown stranger to secure entry. When a superior police officer presented his authority to the person at the door, that person would accompany the officer round the building; and certainly it would not be long before everybody in the club knew that an inspector was there to take notes. The objection to the Amendment, as he understood, was two-fold. First, that all inspection was objectionable. That he could understand. Secondly, that it ought to be done openly, so that everybody would know that an inspection was being made. He was not concerned that everybody should know that an inspector was present. The inspector should be allowed to see how the club was conducted in an ordinary way. If notice was given there would be nothing to which the inspector could take exception. He and those with him were satisfied that the Government had met their objections to a very considerable degree; and as they desired that the inspection should be real and tangible, they considered it should be conducted by a policeman in plain clothes, rather than by policemen in uniform. He hoped, therefore, that the Government would stand firm.

SIR F. CAWLEY (Lancashire, Prestwich)

said that in Lancashire anybody could go into working-men's clubs at any time in the evening. Very often the steward of the club might be serving members in a room and a plain clothes man might go into any other part of the building and sit there for a couple of hours watching and spying what was being done. He preferred that the inspection should be done by a police officer in uniform, who, of course, would not go into the club unless previously he had reason to suppose something wrong was going on. But he should go in openly and accuse the steward of what he complained about.

MR. BOWLES

said he understood the hon. Member for Norwich, who spoke with the authority of one who had himself served as a secretary to a working-men's club, to say that under the clause as it now stood, within a very short time of the entry of an inspector, everybody in the club would be aware that an inspection was going on. The hon. Member's second proposition was that he thought it would be an undesirable thing that it should be known that an inspector was in the club. Under these circumstances, he did not understand how the hon. Gentleman could object to this Amendment. The real question was whether it was desirable in the case of a respectable, genuine, and bona fide club the members should be aware that an inspection was taking place. It appeared to him, on the face of it, it was essential, inasmuch as they were dealing with an altogether novel proceeding, that every member of a club should know, and was entitled to know clearly, and at once, that the premises were being inspected at the very moment of inspection. Unless that were established, a member of a club would never know when he went into a club whether or no he was being officially inspected. The best method of making that clear was that the inspectors should be in uniform. It was not enough that a general word should be sent round to all the members in the club that there was an inspector present. Everybody should know it openly and not in an underhand and undesirable way. He earnestly hoped that his hon. friend would press his Amendment, and that the Solicitor-General would accept it.

MR. JOHN WARD (Stoke-on-Trent)

thought the speech of the hon. Member for Norwood was the most illogical he had ever heard him deliver. The hon. Member generally kept most rigidly to the principle which he set out to illustrate and did not drop it by any argument which he delivered, as he had done on that occasion. It was well known that if inspection of a club was desired—if the police wished to interfere with the existence of a club, or if they felt that any illegal act was being committed—it was quite competent for them even now to spy upon it. It was not impossible to become a member; indeed, it was a very easy matter to become a member of these clubs. He thought everybody would agree that there was no very rigid investigation, as to the qualification or otherwise of the individual. He generally applied and signed a form of application to become a member, and if he was a detective he would not be at all particular about what he signed on the form. The consequence was that this idea of opening up some terrible system of secret spying, which the hon. Gentleman on the opposite side suggested, only existed in his own imagination. All these powers existed to-day, if the police chose to use them. What had been done entirely took away their opposition. He was a member of a working men's club, and had been for years, and what took away their objection, entirely was this. They had been, and he thought they were now, utterly opposed to inspection of every description, because they knew very well that the clubs of hon. Gentlemen on that side who sat above the gangway were not going to be inspected. It was only the clubs of the working men that were going to be inspected. There might be a prospect perhaps, if the Bill was carried as it was, so that the police officer was not in uniform, of getting a policeman now and again into the Carlton Club, or other clubs, to see what was going on in those aristocratic, institutions in the West End, but if he must be in uniform, it was a moral certainty he would not get there, and if he did and made a report of what went on, he would not have his uniform long. Therefore, they must take it for granted that they were not dealing with that question at all. The safeguards which induced his hon. friend the Member for Norwich and himself to support the Government in the proposal that they made was this. Inspection had been decided upon by the Committee; that inspection had been safeguarded, by making it a condition that before the policeman entered he must be authorised by a magistrate, and they took it for granted that when he entered, the very first thing he would have to do would be to present his authorisation. If, however, ha wanted to spy upon the club it was always very easy for a man to do so. It was only necessary for an officer of the detective force of the locality to go and sign a form and become a member, and he could spy to his heart's content, whether this clause was in the Bill or not. There was no such difficulty as was assumed. He dared say it was a difficult process to get into an aristocratic club, and the detective would have trouble. All sorts of inquiries would be made. They would want to know in what sphere of life he moved, whether he belonged to the same social standing as the other members, and all about him. But whether it was right or wrong, the working men's club and the working men generally never made inquiries of that description, and consequently those who were members of these exclusive clubs should not imagine that there were the same difficulties in the way of detectives doing their work in working men's clubs as there were in those clubs with which they were connected. This was a moral certainty, as a young officer not more than three or four years ago showed at Barry. The navvies were building docks at Barry, and as they were the most expert shebeeners in the country, they became a positive nuisance to the locality. The young officer decided to become a member of the whole lot of the institutions, and he did, and within about six months by his membership he succeeded in suppressing twenty-two of them. All that was done under the law as it stood at present. This spying was quite possible if there were really bogus institutions carried on. It was quite competent under the present law to carry on the ordinary detective work, and to suppress bogus clubs. At the same time it had been decided by the Committee to have a system of inspection, that inspection had been safeguarded by the written authority of the magistrates being required, and the case was in his estimation entirely met. He hoped the Government, now that the Committee had decided upon inspection, would insist upon the clause as it stood.

*MR. LUTTRELL (Devonshire, Tavistock)

hoped the Government would look favourably upon this Amendment, because it seemed to him to embody a very reasonable proposition. In forming an opinion as to this Amendment, one would be influenced by two considerations, one how it would affect the interests of the law, and the other how it would affect the interests of the club. As far as the law was concerned, he took it that it would be better that these constables should be allowed to enter in uniform. Supposing the police were only allowed to enter a club in private clothes, there might be difficulty in providing a constable, for we fortunately had not in this country a general detective system such as some other countries had possessed. Therefore, in the interests of the law it would be more easy to carry out if the clause provided that the constable should be in uniform rather than in plain clothes, unless they were going to have a detective system made general. Then as to whether it would be in the interests of the club, that the police should go in to spy upon what was going on. Formerly he had been a member of a club for many years, and he should not have cared to have a man coming into a club and spying about; he would much prefer the club's being inspected under the law in an open and above-board way. On these grounds, he must ask the Government favourably to consider the Amendment.

CAPTAIN MORRISOX-BELL (Devonshire, Ashburton)

said the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent used a rather curious argument, because he said he knew of twenty-two clubs having been suppressed under the present law. Why, therefore, have this clause at all? It seemed to him to be unnecessary and to be drafted in a very loose way. If they allowed officers to go into a club, even in plain clothes, those employed in the district would be known to all the members of the club; therefore, he would be selected to go to some far district where he would be unknown, and in going into a club he would be acting practically as a spy. Let them carry out the old English idea and play above-board. They might be sure that if there was anything wrong going on in a club some cute people would be on the look out, and the inspector's or constable's visit would be known all over the premises in two minutes, and anything wrong would be put out of sight or got rid of in some sort of way. Therefore, he did not think it made such a difference whether a man was in plain clothes or in uniform, but they should carry out the honest, straightforward ideas with which they were familiar. If a police officer went into a club it ought to be known that he was a police officer. There was a strong feeling in his part of the world about this great infringement of personal liberty. This system of espionage was contrary to English ideas, and for that reason he should support the Amendment.

*MR. VERNEY (Buckinghamshire, N.)

congratulated the Labour benches on their determination that where inspection of clubs was necessary—and where it was not, it would never be put in practice—it should be of a thoroughly drastic kind. He thought those clubmen who knew how thoroughly respectable the best workmen's clubs were, would, naturally wish that those who infringed their privileges and misconducted themselves should be at once removed and dealt with severely. He knew as a fact that in many clubs, particularly those at Swindon, policemen were members of workmen's clubs, and one of the delegates from the Swindon clubs when they came to London said that that was a reason against police inspection, because they would have some of their own members inspecting their clubs, which would be absurd. He thought it was partly owing to that fact that it was provided that only a superior class of constable should have this power of inspection. He was one of those who thought that if inspection of a club was necessary it was because the character of that club had been brought seriously into question, aid justified a magistrate in granting an inspection order. The hon. Member for Norwood asked whether it was not right that in a respectable club every member of it should know if a police inspector was coming. He should, say "Certainly;" if every member of a club and every club was respectable, it would be a good thing that everybody should know that an inspector was in the club. But they were not dealing with these perfect clubs in this matter of inspection, they were dealing with clubs of a lower character, or he would, rather put it in this way: they had to deal with clubs in which some few members—a small fraction of the members—were degrading their clubs and them elves, and in that case he would like inspection to be as thorough as they could make it; and he congratulated hon. Members on the Labour bench on the attitude they had taken in support of an inspection which, when necessary, would be made as efficient as possible.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

was sorry that the hon. Member for Stoke had left his seat after making a peculiarly offensive speech a short time ago, which he felt should not be left unanswered. It was a monstrous proposition to put before the Committee that some of them thought that, if this police inspection was to be in uniform inspection would not take place in the clubs to which they belonged. He thought that was an offensive suggestion. He considered the whole debate on this particular question showed what a position of difficulty they were in through having adopted this un-English idea of inspection, which, if it was carried out by men in uniform, would be irritating and more or less useless. If they had inspection by men who were not in uniform they would be open to the charge that they were encouraging a system of espionage which they had heard of elsewhere, but which had never been adopted in this country. The hon. Member for Stoke had mentioned a place in Wales where twenty-two clubs were suppressed owing to a police officer becoming a member. What a commentary on the licensing restrictions in Wales! If that was the result of these restrictions, it went far to prove what the Leader of the Opposition said a few days ago, that the Government had upset the balance, and that the restrictions on clubs would not have the desirable effects they anticipated. There was another point of some importance with regard to the question of uniform. He rather liked to look at it from the point of view of those who were to make the inspection. Nobody had a greater admiration of the police force in this country than he had, but he thought the Committee would be putting them in a very difficult position, and one of great temptation, by telling them that they were to go into these clubs in plain clothes to carry out inspection. At any rate, if a man was in uniform he had the sense of responsibility which the uniform carried with it, and he could not help thinking that if a man was to make this inspection in plain clothes, such inspection would open up a greater possibility than otherwise would be the case of corrupt practices ensuing in undesirable clubs. He thought that that was worthy of consideration. Although at first he was doubtful whether it was not a concession that the inspection should not be in uniform, after listening to the debate he was convinced that it was a mistake. He found it was really no concession whatever. If inspection was to be carried out it should be carried out in uniform openly and above board.

MR. RICHARDSON (Nottingham, S.)

said that if it were not for the fact that he believed the police of this country, especially chief constables, were men of common sense, he could conceive that there might be some danger in carrying out this particular clause. He was not afraid of espionage though he was a member of a working man's club, and he was quite sure that the inspectors would never be seen in the ordinary Conservative, Liberal, social,

or workmen's clubs. It was only because this evil was springing up that this precaution was necessary. He was not in favour of any inspection whatever, but seeing there was a general consensus of opinion that there should be some kind of inspection, he must say, as a member of a working-men's club, he preferred a man in uniform to a man in plain clothes.

*MR. REES

expressed his dissatisfaction with the speech made by the hon. Member for Stoke. It was a very serious thing to say that if a policeman came into a club with an authorisation under this Bill the members of the club would obtain his dismissal from the force. The objection of the club would be against the Government which passed the Act which gave the authorisation and not against the man who acted on it and was merely an agent. He thought the hon. Member for Stoke must really be under a misapprehension. It was not necessary for the policeman to be a member of the club in order to carry out this inspection, but the hon. Member so dwelt upon the difficulty of getting into the clubs of Pall Mall, that one was tempted to believe he thought this was the case. It had been said that this section was only intended for such clubs as were badly conducted, but the clause applied to all. It was unfortunate that there was no saving clause, by which clubs which had traditions and excellent characters could be exempt from this inspection. If the inspection was, however, going to be made, it would be better for a man in plain clothes to do the duty, because if he were in uniform they might just as well beat a drum and inform the club that the inspection was about to take place. If they were to have this clause—and he rather thought they could have done without it—it ought to be in the terms drawn by the Government, so he should vote against the Amendment of his hon. friend.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 186; Noes, 69. (Division List No. 340.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R.	Ainsworth, John Stirling
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Agnew, George William	Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.	Rees, J. D.
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.	Harwood, George	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)	Richardson, A.
Barker, John	Hedges, A. Paget	Ridsdale, E. A.
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Helme, Norval Watson	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Barnes, G. N.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Beale, W. P.	Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.)	Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd
Beaumont, Hon. Hubert	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Berridge, T. H. D.	Higham, John Sharp	Robinson, S.
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Hobart, Sir Robert	Robson, Sir William Snowdon
Bowerman, C. W.	Hobhouse, Charles E. H.	Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)
Brace, William	Hodge, John	Roe, Sir Thomas
Branch, James	Hogan, Michael	Rose, Charles Day
Brigg, John	Horniman, Emslie John	Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Hudson, Walter	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.
Brooke, Stopford	Hutton, Alfred Eddison	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Brunner, Rt. Hn.Sir T.J(Cheshire	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Scarisbrick, T. T. L.
Bryce, J. Annan	Jardine, Sir J.	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester)
Byles, William Pollard	Kearley, Sir Hudson E.	Sears, J. E.
Cameron, Robert	Kekewich, Sir George	Seaverns, J. H.
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rohcester)	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.)
Cheetham, John Frederick	Lamont, Norman	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Clough, William	Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington	Sloan, Thomas Henry
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Lupton, Arnold	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Cooper, G. J.	Lyell, Charles Henry	Snowden, P.
Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs.	Soares, Ernest J.
Cory, Sir Clifford John	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Stanger, H. Y.
Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Maclean, Donald	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.
Cox, Harold	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Crooks, William	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Davies, David (Montgomery Co.	M'Callum, John M.	Summerbell, T.
Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald	Sutherland, J. E.
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Mallet, Charles E.	Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)
Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.	Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)	Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)	Marnham, F. J.	Toulmin, George
Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)	Menzies, Walter	Ure, Alexander
Erskine, David C.	Molteno, Percy Alport	Verney, F. W.
Essex, R. W.	Mond, A.	Walters, John Tudor
Esslemont, George Birnie	Montagu, Hon. E. S.	Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)
Evans, Sir Samuel T.	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Wardle, George J.
Ferens, T. R.	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan
Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter	Murray, Capt. Hn. A. C. (Kincard.	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Fuller, John Michael F.	Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.)	Waterlow, D. S.
Fullerton, Hugh	Myer, Horatio	Watt, Henry A.
Gibb, James (Harrow)	Napier, T. B.	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Glendinning, R. G.	Nicholls, George	White, J. Dundas (Dumbart'nsh.
Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Gooch, George Peabody (Bath)	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Whittaker, Rt. Hn. Sir Thomas P.
Grant, Corrie	O'Grady, J.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Partington, Oswald	Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.)
Griffith, Ellis J.	Paulton, James Mellor	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Gurdon, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Brampton	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Winfrey, R.
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Harcourt, RtHn.L.(Rossendale	Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose)	Pirie, Duncan V.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr.
Hardie, J. Keir(Merthyr Tydvil)	Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H.	Joseph Pease and Mr.
Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Priestley, W. E. B. (Bradford, E.)	Herbert Lewis.
Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	Rainy, A. Rolland
Hart-Davies, T.	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex, F.	Bignold, Sir Arthur	Craig, Captain James (Down, E.)
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Bowles, G. Stewart	Craik, Sir Henry
Balcarres, Lord	Carlile, E. Hildred	Cross, Alexander
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond.)	Cave, George	Du Cros, Arthur Philip
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Cawley, Sir Frederick	Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)	Clive, Percy Archer	Faber, George Denison (York)
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Fardell, Sir T. George

Fletcher, J. S.	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall
Gardner, Ernest	Lowe, Sir Francis William	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Gooch, Henry Cubitt (Peckham)	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Salter, Arthur Clavell
Goulding, Edward Alfred	Magnus, Sir Philip	Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)
Guinness, Hon. R. (Haggerston)	Morrison-Bell, Captain	Stanier, Beville
Guinness, W. E. (Bury S. Edm.)	Nolan, Joseph	Starkey, John R.
Helmsley, Viscount	Oddy, John James	Stone, Sir Benjamin
Hill, Sir Clement	Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington	Valentia, Viscount
Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield)	Percy, Earl	Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire)
Houston, Robert Paterson	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Hunt, Rowland	Randles, Sir John Scurrah	Young, Samuel
Kerry, Earl of	Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Kimber, Sir Henry	Ratcliff, Major R. F.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham	Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel	Evelyn Cecil and Mr. Lambton.
Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.	Remnan, James Farquharson
Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham	Renton, Leslie
Long,Rt.Hn.Walter Dublin, S.)	Renwick, George

SIR S. EVANS

moved to add at the end of the clause "and shall produce his authority, if it is demanded by any member or official of the club." He had, he said, added the words "or official" on the representation of some of his hon. friends, who had pointed out that there were stewards and doorkeepers who were not members, before whom strangers had to appear in many instances before they entered clubs. It was reasonable that the persons on duty at the door should be entitled also to ask the officer to prod ace his authority.

Amendment proposed— In page 20, line 27, at end, to insert the words "and shall produce his authority, if it is demanded by any member or official of the club.'"—(Sir S. Evans.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

LORD BALCARRES

said it was only in the case of a bad club that the appearance of this gentleman would be necessary or effective, and it was only in the case of badly conducted clubs that any concealment was necessary. This Amendment gave the right to any member to demand the production of the authority, and if a sufficient number of members presented their demand in succession, time would be wasted and the inspection would be rendered useless.

Amendment agreed to.

MR. WALTER LONG

moved to add the words "but if the chief constable has reason to believe that the entry and inspection of a club and premises by such person or persons when not in uniform might occasion a breach of the peace he may then direct the officer to appear in uniform." He felt bound to dispute the claim of the Under-Secretary that he had disposed altogether of the reason for which he had supported the previous Amendment because all the hon. Gentleman did was to advance certain allegations of his own which pointed in a contrary direction to the statements which he (Mr. Long) had made; and he was convinced that nobody conversant with club life would from his own experience draw any such conclusions as those of the hon. Gentleman. The point to which he (Mr. Long) directed attention, and upon which he should seek the opinion of the Law Officer of the Crown, was as to what would follow if the entry by the police was made at a time when the condition of a club was such as might involve the risk of a breach of the peace. He was no lawyer, but it was a matter of common knowledge that if a man quarrelled with a man in plain clothes, who afterwards turned out to be a policeman, he was not subjected to the same disabilities as he would be if he quarrelled with a policeman in uniform. He was convinced that the Government had failed to realise what would be the effect of this clause on some of the very clubs they desired to suppress. In regard to well-managed and properly conducted clubs, the entry of the police would be merely a matter of offence to the members, but would have no prejudicial effect on the existence of the club, but where it was one of those places described as mere drinking shops, existing for the purpose of selling drink at times when it could not be obtained in public-houses, and improperly conducted in other respects, there they had gatherings of men at a late hour—men who frequently became quarrelsome, and if the word went round, as it certainly would do if the Under-Secretary's description of such clubs was correct, that there was a spy on the premises, there would be every incentive to a row. He submitted that to cast on the chief constable the duty of reporting on these clubs, and to force him to send a man not in uniform to do it, was to impose on him a duty which he could not discharge without running a grave risk of himself being the cause of a breach of the peace. That was a thing which the House had no right to do. The duties of the police were difficult enough to perform already, and nobody in the House had a right to call to their aid the supreme power of Parliament in order to throw on the police a duty which he would not attempt to perform himself. The Amendment of the hon. Member for Mansfield, who was unfortunately not present, was to enable the chief constable, if he thought a breach of the peace might ensue from the sending of a man in plain clothes, to send him in uniform, and he (Mr. Long) proposed to add words to make that feasible. They had to consider whether it was just to throw a duty of this nature upon the police, and whether if they did so they might not be creating, rather than stopping, crime. In his own part of the world the Petty Sessional Division in which he had the honour to sit ran the grave risk, till the other day, of being extinguished owing to the peaceful and respectable character of the neighbourhood, but, thanks to the arrival in office of the present Government and to their legislation, there was every likelihood of that bench having plenty to do in future, because the Government were continually creating absolutely new crimes and throwing upon the police quite new duties, which would undoubtedly involve the creation of altogether fresh crimes. The policy of the Government had had that effect, and that being so, unless they paused in what they were doing, he was convinced they would throw on the police duties which they would not be able to perform. He begged to move.

Amendment proposed— In page 20, line 27, after the words last added, to add the words 'provided that, if the chief constable has reason to believe that the entry and inspection of a club and premises by such person or persons when not in uniform might occasion a breach of the peace, he may then direct him or them to wear uniform.'"—(Mr. Walter Long.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there added."

SIR S. EVANS

said the right hon. Gentleman had made a forcible speech, and with many of the sentiments in that speech they would all agree, viz., the sentiments in which he declared that everybody ought to assist the police in the performance of their duties. There was no difference at all in the status of a police officer whether he was in uniform or not, if he declared that he was a police officer, which he must do before he could get into a club.

MR. WALTER LONG

As he walks about the club amongst the members seeking to find out what their conduct is like, is he compelled to say to each man: "I am an inspector of police"?

SIR S. EVANS

said that every member had the right to demand who he was, and he had no doubt whatever that if the officer anticipated any difficulty, he would himself take care to inform everybody in the club that he was there as a police officer doing his duty. In that case, if anybody interfered with him, or assaulted him, they would be guilty of the crime of assaulting the police while in the execution of their duty. He thought the right hon. Gentleman had in his mind something more than the ordinary inspection the Government were thinking of in this provision. The police were not precluded from availing themselves of the power given by the Act of 1902 of getting a search warrant, and to cope with the state of things contemplated by the Amendment the police would undoubtedly have a search, warrant. They would never go under the ordinary powers of inspection under this clause to raid a club; they would undoubtedly get a search warrant and go there, not merely in uniform, but probably in force. He thought that was the answer to the objections which underlay the speech of the right hon. Gentleman. He did not think it would be right to accept the Amendment, having regard to the decision of the Committee on the last Amendment, which really amounted to this, that in carrying out these ordinary inspections, they should carry them out in a manner to cause as little irritation and annoyance as possible.

MR. HUNT

said the objection which working-men had to the entry of policemen not in uniform was that they could go in and sit down and talk to the members, who would not know who they were. Was the police officer to go into a club and, directly he got into a room, to say: "Hi, lookout; I am a police officer"? The working-men thought that they would be spied upon, to which they most strongly objected, and the Government would find that the objection of Radical as well as of Conservative clubs was most strong. Men would not stand being spied upon, and that was what it would mean unless the police went in uniform.

MR. LYTTELTON (St. George's, Hanover Square)

said the Solicitor-General had not answered the arguments of his right hon. friend. There were clubs in the large towns which might contain on a Saturday night 500 or 600 people. There might be clubs in which a sudden irritation might arise, and if the word was rapidly passed round that there was a spy on the premises it was easy to conceive that the man who was, in their view, intruding, might be somewhat seriously hustled. What in the world was the objection which the Solicitor-General had to this most innocent Amendment? His answer was practically that in order to obtain entrance into a club the policeman would have to produce his authority, and that he would at once by that means proclaim to every member of the club that he was a policeman, and every member of the club would be at once aware that if he assaulted him he would incur grave penalties. That really was not the case. The man's authority would be produced at the door of the club; he would then enter, and if it was the case that immediately thereafter he should proclaim to every member that he was a policeman, it was ridiculous not to have him in uniform. What was the good of making a provision that he should be in plain clothes if by proclamation he was to place himself in exactly the same position by the voice as his uniform would place him by the eye? If there was any sense at all in having the policeman not in uniform, obviously there could be no sense in proclaiming to 500 or 600 members that he was a policeman.

MR. CARLILE

asked whether the subsection as it now stood did not provide that the police officer must be accompanied by the chief constable. The clause read apparently as if that were the intention.

*MR. CAVE (Surrey, Kingston)

said they were dealing with a case where there was a club in which, some offence was suspected to be happening. That is, they were dealing on the hypothesis that the club was not above suspicion. It might be that drinking was going on. In that case, to compel the police to go in plain clothes was a very dangerous thing to do. He quite agreed that when the offender knew that the person he was dealing with was a policeman, it was no answer for him to say that the man was in plain clothes, but how extremely easy it was for a man charged with an assault on a constable to say he had not the least idea he was a constable. It was almost impossible to prove that he knew he was a constable. He thought this matter ought to be considered before Report, with a view, if possible, to leaving some discretion to the police. He thought it a great pity that the Amendment on the Paper to leave out the last two lines of the clause, which compelled the officer to go in plain clothes, was not moved. In that case the discretion would be with the chief constable, who in an ordinary case would consider the feelings of the members and send an officer in plain clothes, and who, in a suspicious case, would think it the right thing to send the man in uniform, so that the whole club might know he was a member of the force. Failing some assurance from the Government of that kind, he thought they ought to support the Amendment.

SIR S. EVANS

said it was entirely a matter as to whether the people chiefly affected would be more offended by a man in uniform than otherwise, and that being so he would be pleased to make investigations, and see what were the wishes of the clubs in regard to this particular question.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR (City of London)

said he quite accepted the conciliatory manner in which the Solicitor-General had dealt with this matter. The hon. and learned Gentleman would see that the Amendment of his right hon. friend only suggested that the chief constable was to send a man in uniform when he had reason to think that it would not be safe to send him in plain clothes. The pre-

sumption was that, where he could go safely in plain clothes, he would go in plain clothes, but, when the Solicitor-General came to think it over, he would see that to compel a chief constable to send him in plain clothes when the chief constable thought it would be dangerous to do so was to restrict the discretion of the chief constable in a manner which was hardly defensible.

MR. GEORGE ROBERTS

said that in this clause they were dealing with inspection. Where they had evidence that irregularities were habitual in the club, he took it that the Solicitor-General would inform them that proceedings would be taken under the Act of 1902. They were dealing with ordinary inspection, not through a raid, in order to get possession of information as to whether such irregularities did exist.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 77; Noes, 197. (Division List No. 341.)

AYES.
Baldwin, Stanley	Goulding, Edward Alfred	Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond)	Gretton, John	Percy, Earl
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Guinness, W. E. (Bury S. Edm.)	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)	Harrison-Broadley, H. B.	Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Helmsley, Viscount	Ratcliff, Major R. F.
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hill, Sir Clement	Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel
Bowles, G. Stewart	Hogan, Michael	Remnant, James Farquharson
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield)	Renton, Leslie
Carlile, E. Hildred	Houston, Robert Paterson	Renwick, George
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Kerry, Earl of	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Kimber, Sir Henry	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.	Salter, Arthur Clavell
Clive, Percy Archer	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.	Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)
Courthope, G. Loyd	Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham	Stanier, Beville
Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S)	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S)	Starkey, John R.
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Thornton, Percy M.
Craik, Sir Henry	Lowe, Sir Francis William	Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire)
Crosfield, A. H.	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Watt, Henry A.
Cross, Alexander	MacCaw, William J. MacGeagh	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon	Magnus, Sir Philip	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan	Morpeth, Viscount	Young, Samuel
Faber, George Denison (York)	Morrison-Bell, Captain
Fardell, Sir T. George	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Fletcher, J. S.	Nolan, Joseph	Viscount Valentia and Lord
Gardner, Ernest	Oddy, John James	Balcarres.
NOES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Alden, Percy	Barker, John
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Barlow, Percy (Bedford)
Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R.	Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Barnard, E. B.
Agnew, George William	Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Barnes, G. N.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Barran, Rowland Hirst
Beale, W. P.	Higham, John Sharp	Richardson, A.
Berridge, T. H. D.	Hobart, Sir Robert	Ridsdale, E. A.
Bethell, T. R. (Essex. Maldon)	Hodge, John	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Black, Arthur W.	Horniman, Emslie John	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Bowerman, C. W.	Horridge, Thomas Gardner	Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd
Brace, William	Hudson, Walter	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Branch, James	Hutton, Alfred Eddison	Robinson, S.
Brigg, John	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Robson, Sir William Snowdon
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Jardine, Sir J.	Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)
Brooke, Stopford	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea	Roe, Sir Thomas
Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T. (Cheshire	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Rose, Charles Day
Bryce, J. Annan	Kearley, Sir Hudson E.	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Kekewich, Sir George	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Byles, William Pollard	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Scarisbrick, T. T. L.
Cameron, Robert	Lamont, Norman	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis	Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester)
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington	Sears, J. E.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)	Seaverns, J. H.
Clough, William	Lupton, Arnold	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.)
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Lyell, Charles Henry	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W.	Lynch, H. B.	Sloan, Thomas Henry
Cooper, G. J.	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs)	Snowden, P.
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Cory, Sir Clifford John	Maclean, Donald	Soares, Ernest J.
Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Stanger, H. Y.
Crooks, William	M'Callum, John M.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Curran, Peter Francis	Mallet, Charles E.	Steadman, W. C.
Davies, David (Montgomery Co	Mansfield, H. Rendall(Lincoln)	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Marnham, F. J.	Strachey, Sir Edward
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Menzies, Walter	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.	Molteno, Percy Alport	Summerbell, T.
Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)	Mond, A.	Sutherland, J. E.
Erskine, David C.	Montagu, Hon. E. S.	Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)
Essex, R. W.	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)
Esslemont, George Birnie	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)	Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)
Evans, Sir Samuel T.	Murray, Capt. Hn. A. C. (Kincard.)	Thorne, William (West Ham)
Ferens, T. R.	Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.)	Toulmin, George
Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter	Myer, Horatio	Ure, Alexander
Fuller, John Michael F.	Napier, T. B.	Verney, F. W.
Fullerton, Hugh	Nicholls, George	Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent)
Gibb, James (Harrow)	Norman, Sir Henry	Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton
Glendinning, R. G.	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Wardle, George J.
Gooch, George Peabody (Bath)	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan
Grant, Corrie	O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	O'Grady, J.	Waterlow, D. S.
Griffith, Ellis, T.	Partington, Oswald	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Gurdon, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Brampton	Paulton, James Mellor	White, J. Dundas (Dumbart'nsh)
Harcourt, Rt. Hn. L. (Rossendale	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Whittaker, Rt. Hn. Sir Thomas P.
Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	Pirie, Duncan V.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Hart-Davies, T.	Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H.	Wills, Arthur Walters
Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.	Priestley, W. E. B. (Bradford, E.)	Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.)
Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)	Pullar, Sir Robert	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Hedges, A. Paget	Radford, G. H.	Winfrey, R.
Helme, Norval Watson	Rainy, A. Rolland	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)
Henry, Charles S.	Rea, Walter Russell (Searboro'	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.)	Rees, J. D.	Joseph Pease and Mr.
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n	Herbert Lewis.

Question proposed, "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

*MR. BOTTOMLBY (Hackney, S.)

said he opposed the clause as it stood on the ground that it violated to the utmost extent the doctrine of individual liberty and of equality before the law, which, until he entered that House, he thought it was the special prerogative of the Liberal Party to protect. Under the clause as it now stood, they had the fact that a policeman of a certain rank, provided he received the authority of a justice of the peace, might enter the premises of a club, and, having entered, make such inspection and inquiries as he thought fit for the purpose of satisfying his superior officers as to how that club was conducted. This clause, if it was put forward in the interests of good clubs, was absolutely useless. If it was put forward as non-class legislation, it was an absolute farce, because no justice of the peace, under any circumstances, would give the policemen permission to enter such a club as the Carlton or the Reform, of one or other of which he was probably a member; he would think it was so ridiculous to say that anything wrong went on there. Further, he would press on the Committee that under the provisions of the Act of 1902, to which not half enough attention had been given in these discussions, there was ample power to cover everything which the Solicitor-General sought to effect by this clause. Under that Act, first of all, they had the list of grounds on which a club for misconduct could be struck off the register. Then they had the provision that, if a justice of the peace were satisfied that any of those grounds were being infringed, a search warrant might be granted, and the police officer, if necessary by the use of force, might enter that club and make inquiries. He submitted that, as a matter of law, there was no difference between the grounds of misconduct in the present Bill and those contained in the Act of 1902, except that this Bill made it an offence that the club should be used mainly for drinking purposes. That was the only additional misconduct on the part of the club as compared with the grounds given in the Act of 1902. Under that Act the words were— If the club be used for any unlawful purpose," or "if frequent drunkenness took place. whereas under the Bill, the words were— If the club be used mainly for drinking purposes. Being unlicensed premises, any magistrate would hold, he submitted with deference and some confidence, that to use unlicensed premises in the guise of a club "mainly for drinking purposes" would be using that club for an "unlaw- ful purpose." The Solicitor-General smiled.

SIR S. EVANS

I shook my head.

*MR. BOTTOMLEY

said there was a good deal in that. He had heard before now in the High Court doctrines set up which learned Gentlemen seemed to think improbable. Leaving legal and technical definitions on one side, he would remind the Committee of the strength of the words of the Act of 1902— If a justice is satisfied by information on oath"— —a very necessary provision— that there is reasonable ground for supposing that any club is carried on so to as constitute a ground for striking it off the register" etc.— he might grant a search warrant. Surely this would cover the case of systematic drinking as the main object of the club. The section went on to say that the warrant might be executed, if necessary, by force. What case had been made for adding to that power under the law? What ground had been suggested to the Committee that at the present moment any club in this country, certainly any club in London, was so conducted that the provisions of the Act of 1902 were not adequate? There had been no such suggestion at all. Just see how it would work. A man might be turned out of a club in the constituency which he represented, and where there were more clubs than in any other Metropolitan constituency; and he knew how strict the committees of those clubs were in their endeavour to keep them free from disorderly conduct and disreputable member ship. They frequently expelled members. If a man were expelled on the ground of his being an undesirable member, under this section he would have a grand opportunity of getting a little of his own back. He would go off to the policeman or to the superintendent, and make his complaint. To the superintendent it was the easiest thing in the world; he did not require a sworn information nor any evidence; he listened to the plausible ex parte statement of the disaffected ex-club-member, and then went off to the justice. Again, how easy it was to get the authority of the justice. If he was a strong temperance man, obviously he would say that it was a case in which drinking was going on, and the club ought to be suppressed. If he happened to be a brewer, obviously he would say that this club was competing with his public-houses, and he would grant a permit. So there would be no trouble in getting authority. It must be borne in mind that they had already arranged by the Bill that once a year every club was to have its membership, its conduct, and its position reviewed by the judicial tribunal, and not by the licensing justices. If once a year the club got a certificate of good character from a Court of Law, if the law as it at present stood said that a club which was used for unlawful purposes, or any of the disqualifying purposes under the Act of 1902, might be raided by force, what more did they want, in the interests of bona fide clubs? There seemed to be a general consensus of opinion on the part of the Committee that bona fide clubs should not be discouraged, but encouraged, if they were properly conducted. This section was inimical to every well-conducted club in the Metropolis. It was all very well for the hon. Member for Barnard Castle to say that these modifications were acceptable to the clubs, but the members of clubs generally were up in arms against the idea that the private life of their clubs should be liable to be invaded by a police officer, whether in plain clothes or in uniform. They regarded it as a matter which took away all sense of security. Every one of those desirable adjuncts of club life—athletic associations, provident funds, sick funds—which depended on annual subscriptions of members, would automatically come to an end. He objected to this clause on the ground that it was a gratuitous and uncalled for interference with the liberty of club life. Above all things, it would only affect the workingmen's club. It was no good for them to pretend there or outside that it was equally applicable to West-End clubs. They would never get a constable authorised to enter any fashionable West-End club. They would easily get it in the case of any working men's club, and especially at the instance of disaffected ex-members of the clubs. He earnestly begged the Solicitor-General, though he knew it was more or less waste of breath and energy to go into the division lobbies, to consider whether, from the point of view of the Liberal Party, it was not a suicidal thing to set up in arms against them the whole of the working mail's clubs of the country. They were their only refuge until this Bill was produced, against the antagonism of the licensing trade. Now, they had made them join hands, so far as this Bill was concerned, and they had club members and licensed victuallers united to oppose this Bill. If the Liberal Party thought that was a desirable course, they would in their wisdom adopt it. For his part, representing a club constituency, and still having some glimmering recollection of the old doctrines of individual liberty and freedom that used to be the organic foundation of their faith, he strenuously opposed the introduction of any such clause as this into any Bill, and he should do his utmost to make quite clear that he, for one, still believed in the liberty of the subject, and was an opponent of any of this grandmotherly interference, which only tended to sap the self-reliance of the people of the country.

*MR. CARLILE

said he wished to raise a small drafting point. He thought the word "or" ought to be substituted for the word "and" as the phrase conveyed the impression to any ordinary person that the inspector, whoever he was, must be accompanied by the chief constable. The word "and" was evidently out of place.

SIR S. EVANS

said he had looked at that. He did not think it was necessary that the two should go together. It gave power to the one and to the other.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said the hon. Member for Hackney had asked a question to which no answer had been vouchsafed by the Government. He would endeavour to give the answer. The hon. Member had asked why, since practically the Act of 1902 had given all the effective power they wanted to deal with clubs, these complicated and irritating conditions were introduced. The answer obviously was this. It was quite true that the Act of 1902 did all that was necessary to deal with clubs. It was quite true that every provision in this Bill dealing with clubs was of a kind which legitimately irritated the members of clubs but did nothing to protect the public against the unlicensed growth of bogus clubs. Though that was absolutely true, nevertheless it was the fact that even this Government could not deal in a drastic manner with the suppression of licences without appearing to deal also with the question of clubs. Though they had not succeeded in obviating in any degree the uncontested evils that would arise from driving people from the public-houses to the clubs, they had at all events pretended to do something and had, therefore, passed the futile and irritating measures of which this clause contained so many examples.

SIR S. EVANS

said that he did not agree that there was no difference between these provisions and the Act of 1902. It was not the law at the present time that a club if conducted mainly for drinking was used for unlawful purposes. If it was not a club, they were selling liquor on unlicensed premises, but if it was a club, the amount of drinking that went on there did not matter. Frequent drunkenness was dealt with under the Act of 1902, but it was no offence for anybody to get drunk in his club so long as he remained there.

MR. BOTTOMLEY

That is a statutory offence under Section 23 of the Act.

SIR S. EVANS

That is entirely wrong. It is no offence on the part of the man; it is a ground for striking off the club.

*MR. CAVE

Does the Bill make it an offence on the part of the man?

SIR S. EVANS

said he had never said that it did. He would not make any answer as to the effect of the measure on the Liberal Party. That was a matter which was pertinent on the Second Reading, and possibly upon some clauses in Committee, but it was not exclusively pertinent to this clause. He preferred to deal with the clauses and Amendments as they came to them, and not to deal with them as if they were Second Reading discussions. The right hon. Gentleman opposite, who had kindly offered to make an answer for him to the hon. Member for Hackney, whom he had so often followed into the division lobby on this measure, had said they did nothing more under the provisions of this Bill to deal with the evils which would arise, and which apparently existed in clubs, than was done under the Act of 1902. If the right hon. Gentleman thought that everything that was necsssary was done under the Act of 1902, away went all his contentions that by the reduction of public-houses they were creating a much greater evil. They attached very great importance to the provision regarding the use of clubs mainly for drinking purposes. That gave a latitude to the justices who would act judicially when they interpreted it, and if there were nothing else in the provisions dealing with clubs in this Bill which was not in the Act of 1902, that alone was sufficient authority for him to ask the Committee to pass the clause. It dealt only with inspection which they thought was necessary in some cases where perhaps it was not justifiable to apply for a search warrant. They provided proper safeguards, as had been admitted, and they were dealing not merely with existing clubs, but with clubs that were going to exist in future, and it was a right and wise provision to enable periodic inspection to take place by the officer whom they had provided for the purpose. The hon. Member for Hackney asked why they did that when there was an opportunity of objecting to the renewal of the club each January. What was the use of giving an opportunity of objecting to the club if they withheld from the police officer the power of inspection? It was for the very purpose of getting information, to which it might be useful to direct the attention of the justices, that they thought this power was necessary and desirable. Irritation was not the intention, and it would not be the effect. It was for the purpose of seeing whether things were going on on the club premises which it would be right: to bring to the attention of the justices.

MR. RAWLINSON (Cambridge University)

asked if they had not now arrived at the time when every person who had tried to keep an open mind on the whole of this Bill must come to the conclusion that in dealing with this most important question of clubs the Government were deliberately giving them what was nothing more or less than an insult. It was idle to attack public-houses as they had done when they were simply substituting clubs for "pubs." Unless they made an effort to deal with the club question the rest of the Bill was a mere farce and a delusion. The Solicitor-General had tried to differentiate the new powers which the Bill was to give. He had said that under the Act of 1902 it was not an offence for a man to be drunk on his club premises. It was not an offence under this Bill.

SIR S. EVANS

I did not say it was.

MR. RAWLINSON

asked why, then, the Solicitor-General instanced it. Under the Act of 1902 if drunkenness was allowed it was an offence against the club. It remained so still. What possible addition had this Bill made except these extraordinary words "used mainly as a drinking club," which he had tried to get made more specific and more detailed, but the Government would not have it? Was it not merely a shop window business? He should certainly vote against this particular clause, because it was an absolute delusion and a sham. Could they imagine anything more farcical? They sent a police constable into a club. What was he to do—this man without uniform but with regulation boots? He was to walk into any club, and if he found a man drunk there he could not do anything. It was a perfect insult to the club to start with, and it was a perfect farce and a delusion that he could do nothing when he got inside but simply remain there—an annoyance to the members. It had been pointed out time after time that under the Act of 1902, if there was any real belief that anything illegal was going on, there was nothing easier than to get a search warrant, and that power was used in the case of gambling clubs in the West End as well as in the East End. This Bill lent no sort of assistance to the present methods of dealing with clubs. He had voted with the Government on many of these club clauses, but he should certainly oppose as strongly as he could such ridiculous suggestions as these, which were a mere insult to clubs and to the Committee to whom they were suggested. No one could believe it was in the least likely to be an adequate section or tend to temperance in any way.

MR. LYTTELTON

said he proposed to make two or three remarks in order to obtain from the Solicitor-General a precise answer, if possible, to the question put by the hon. Member for Hackney, who had stated in point of fact that Section 28 of the 1902 Act did everything for the protection of the public against drinking clubs that was done by this Bill. His right hon. friend had enforced that contention. The Solicitor-General had said that the Government, and he himself, attached immense importance to the expression in Section 37 of this Bill "to be used mainly as a drinking club," and he gathered there was a belief that there was greater latitude and elasticity for justices to make decisions adverse to clubs under those words than under any words in the section of the Act of 1902. Would the Solicitor-General say what additional latitude and elasticity would be given to the justices by the use of the expression "used mainly as a drinking club" that was not conferred by the sections which he would read? Under the Act of 1902 a club might be struck off— If it is not conducted in good faith as a club, if persons who are not members are habitually admitted to the club merely for the purpose of obtaining intoxicating liquor, and if there is frequent drunkenness on the club premises. What possible latitude or elasticity existed for justices under Section 37 which did not exist under those three sub-clauses of Section 28? He would be very glad if the Solicitor-General could answer that question clearly, because in his opinion if it was not answered satisfactorily it was perfectly obvious that this clause and Part IV. of the Bill were an elaborate pretence. He awaited the hon. and learned Gentleman's answer before he said it was an elaborate pretence, but if there was no satisfactory answer he should certainly say it was.

SIR S. EVANS

said he would reply directly, and he hoped clearly, to the points which had been raised. He did not need to deal with the sub-head applying to the supplying of intoxicating liquors to non-members, and he would confine himself to the question of premises not conducted in good faith as a club. A club was an association of people who bought their drink and food in the club. A club would be no less a club although its sole object was to distribute drink amongst its members. [OPPOSITION Cries of "Oh!"] The phrase about "conducted in good faith" referred to clubs which pretended to be clubs belonging to members, but which were proprietary clubs. As to "frequent drunkenness," they could not get rid of a club under the clause of the Act of 1902 unless a bench of magistrates could be persuaded that not only drunkenness, but frequent drunkenness occurred. There could be a constant supply of drink without drunkenness, and there could be drunkenness without frequent drunkenness. He would give a concrete case. Supposing there was a club which consisted only of a bar and a room for the steward. It would be obvious that such a club existed solely as a drinking club; but they had no power under the Act of 1902 to get rid of a club of that kind.

MR. LYTTELTON

Yes, they could under subsection 2 of Section 28.

SIR S. EVANS

Did the right hon. Gentleman think that a club could be got rid of under the Act of 1902 if it could not be proved that there was frequent drunkenness, and not merely on the ground that the existence of the club was due to drinking?

MR. LYTTELTON

said that if the club had only a bar, it would be liable to be struck off under Section 28, sub-head (2) of the Act of 1902, for the Act provided that for the purpose of determining whether it was conducted in good faith as a club, regard should be had to the nature of the premises. Manifestly, if the club premises consisted only of a bar and a steward's room they would be hit under that clause.

SIR S. EVANS

said he entirely disagreed with the right hon. Gentleman, and he challenged him to produce a single instance where a club had been closed if there had been nothing in the nature of frequent drunkenness. He would put to the Committee another case. Supposing they had a magnificent pile of buildings like the Carlton Club, to which no objection could be made as premises, supposing the place was big enough for a coffee-room, smoking-room, and so forth, but nothing was done in those premises and only one room was used for the purpose of drinking: they could not get rid of a club of that kind under the Act of 1902.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD (Liverpool, West Derby)

There is no such club in existence.

SIR S. EVANS

replied that that was not the question put to him by the right hon. Gentleman. What he wanted to know was, what were the differences between the provisions of this Bill and the Act of 1902. Another difference between the two was that the Government gave the opportunity every year to people, who might know something about these clubs, to object to their renewal. That was not in the Act of 1902. Beyond that the power of inspection was given. That, would enable evidence to be collected which would give the justices power to say that the registration of the club should not be renewed.

LORD R. CECIL (Marylebone, E.)

said they now understood what the whole purpose of this provision about drinking clubs really meant. It was to deal with a club which had buildings like the Carlton and only used one room for drinking purposes. That was the only instance the Solicitor-General had been able to give.

SIR S. EVANS

I said that it did not matter what the character of the premises might be. The club could not be shut up under the Act of 1902, unless it was proved that there was frequent drunkenness.

LORD R. CECIL

said the right hon. Gentleman the Member for St. George's Hanover Square, had asked: "Where is the club hit by your words which was not hit by our words under the Act of 1902?" What did "mainly used as a drinking club" mean? Personally, he regarded that provision as a matter of the greatest possible danger. He did not know what those words meant, and he did not think any hon. Member opposite did. Was it to be a mere matter of chance for the justices to determine what they meant? Just after this Bill was introduced he was asked to attend a meeting of a non-political club in his constituency, the members of which were mainly Radicals, in order that he might hear their views about the Bill. One and all of those who spoke singled out this clause as the most objectionable of all. They said that any superintendent of police, or police officer, might come into the club and, seeing some member tired out and dozing in the corner, shake him up to see if he was drunk. They said: "You will not see the police doing that in the Reform Club." He told them he had great confidence in the police; but even in that excellent body there were some who were not so good as others, and they said: "What an opportunity it gives for such a man to go in, and, unless he is treated in a proper manner and given all the advantages of the club, to make an unfair report."

That was the kind of objection they made, and it was futile for the Solicitor-General to say that no hardship would exist or was apprehended by working men. He was sure that his constituents—men who voted against him at his election—would not be satisfied with the modifications which had been made in this clause. The Committee ought to be careful how they assented to it. When the Solicitor-General was challenged to show what this inspection was going to do in enforcing temperance, he replied that it would enable them to see which were drinking clubs, and when the hon. and learned Gentleman was asked what were drinking clubs, he could only give the ridiculous instance he had given that afternoon.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said the main objection he had to this clause was that it would not apply to the clubs of one class of people, but it would apply in a most objectionable manner to the clubs of the lower section of the community. That was neither English nor fair, and it was treating one class of society in one way and another class in another way.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 205; Noes, 86. (Division List No. 342.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Dobson, Thomas W.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness
Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R.	Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)
Agnew, George William	Byles, William Pollard	Erskine, David C.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Cameron, Robert	Essex, R. W.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Esslemont, George Birnie
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Evans, Sir Samuel T.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Cheetham, John Frederick	Faber, G. H. (Boston)
Barker, John	Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S.	Ferens, T. R.
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Clough, William	Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter
Barnard, E. B.	Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Fullerton, Hugh
Barnes, G. N.	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Gibb, James (Harrow)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W.	Glen-Coats, Sir T. (Renfrew, W.
Beale, W. P.	Cooper, G. J.	Glendinning, R. G.
Beaumont, Hon. Hubert	Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Gooch, George Peabody (Bath)
Berridge, T. H. D.	Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Grant, Corrie
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Cory, Sir Clifford John	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough
Black, Arthur W.	Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Griffith, Ellis J.
Brace, William	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Gurdon, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Brampton
Branch, James	Crooks, William.	Harcourt, Rt. Hn. L. (Rossendale
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Cross, Alexander	Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose)
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Curran, Peter Francis	Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)
Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)	Davies, M. Vaughan- ((Cardigan	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)
Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T. (Cheshire	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)
Bryce, J. Annan	Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.
Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)	Menzies, Walter	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Hedges, A. Paget	Molteno, Percy Alport	Snowden, P.
Helme, Norval Watson	Mond, A.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Montagu, Hon. E. S.	Soares, Ernest J.
Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.)	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Stanger, H. Y.
Henry, Charles S.	Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.	Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.)	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Myer, Horatio	Strachey, Sir Edward
Higham, John Sharp	Nicholls, George	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Hodge, John	Norman, Sir Henry	Summerbell, T.
Holland, Sir William Henry	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Sutherland, J. E.
Hooper, A. G.	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Horridge, Thomas Gardner	O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)	Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)
Hudson, Walter	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.
Hutton, Alfred Eddison	Pearce, William (Limehouse	Thomasson, Franklin
Jackson, R. S.	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton
Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Pirie, Duncan V.	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Jardine, Sir J.	Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H.	Toulmin, George
Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea	Pullar, Sir Robert	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Radford, G. H.	Verney, F. W.
Joynson-Hicks, William	Rainy, A. Holland	Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent)
Kekewich, Sir George	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton
Laidlaw, Robert	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'	Wardle, George J.
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Rees, J. D.	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan
Lamont, Norman	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis	Richardson, A.	Waterlow, D. S.
Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Acrington	Ridsdale, E. A.	Watt, Henry A.
Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	White, J. Dundas Dumbart'nsh
Lupton, Arnold	Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Lyell, Charles Henry	Robinson, S.	Whittaker, Rt. Hn. Sir Thomas P.
Lynch, H. B.	Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)	Wiles, Thomas
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Roe, Sir Thomas	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth]
Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs	Rose, Charles Day	Williamson, A.
Mackarness, Frederic C.	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.	Wills, Arthur Walters
Maclean, Donald	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)	Wilson, Henry J. (York. W. R.)
Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Scarisbrick, T. T. L.	Winfrey, R.
M'Callum, John M.	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
M'Laren, Sir C. B. (Leicester)	Sears, J. E.	Yoxall, James Henry
M'Micking, Major G.	Seaverns, J. H.
Mallet, Charles E.	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—MR.
Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Joseph Pease and Mr. Herbert
Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	Lewis.
Marnham, F. J.	Sloan, Thomas Henry
NOES.
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan	MacCaw, William J. MacGeagh
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Fardell, Sir T. George	M'Arthur, Charles
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.	Fletcher, J. S.	Magnus, Sir Philip
Balcarres, Lord	Gardner, Ernest	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)
Baldwin, Stanley	Goulding, Edward Alfred	Morrison-Bell, Captain
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond)	Gretton, John	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Guinness, Hon. R. (Haggerston	Nolan, Joseph
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)	Guinness, W. E. (Bury S. Edm.)	Oddy, John James
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Harris, Frederick Leverton	O'Grady, J.
Bowerman, C. W.	Harrison-Broadley, H. B.	Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington
Bowles, G. Stewart	Helmsley, Viscount	Percy, Earl
Brooke, Stopford	Hill, Sir Clement	Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Butcher, Samuel Henry	Hills, J. W.	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Carlile, E. Hildred	Houston, Robert Paterson	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Kerry, Earl of	Ratcliff, Major R. F.
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Kimber, Sir Henry	Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel
Clive, Percy Archer	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham	Remnant, James Farquharson
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.	Renton, Leslie
Courthope, G. Loyd	Long, Col. Charles W. Evesham	Renwick, George
Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S)	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.)	Lonsdale, John Rrownlee	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Craik, Sir Henry	Lowe, Sir Francis William	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Salter, Arthur Clavell

Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert	Thornton, Percy M.	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Stanier, Beville	Valentia, Viscount	Young, Samuel
Starkey, John R.	Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire
Steadman, W. C.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)	Bottomley and Mr. George
Thorne, William (West Ham)	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart	D. Faber.

Clause 42:

MR. BLACK (Bedfordshire, Biggleswade)

moved an Amendment to insert after "club" the following words, "after the hours at which licensed houses are closed in the licensing district in which the club is situated, nor shall intoxicating liquor be supplied in a club." He said that that was the only way in which to secure that all clubs would receive equal treatment. He believed it would remove a legitimate grievance which the licence-holders had at the present time. Clubs were allowed to sell liquor as long as they kept their doors open, and in that way became most unfair competitors with the public-houses in towns and villages. If the Government were anxious to secure real temperance reform, and if the Members of the Opposition desired to co-operate in that object, they would support him in the division lobby.

Amendment proposed— In page 20, line 28, after the word 'club,' to insert the words 'after the hours at which licensed houses are closed in the licensing district in which the club is situated, nor shall intoxicating liquor be supplied in a club.'"—(Mr. Black.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

MR. HERBERT SAMUEL

said the Government could not accept the Amendment. They thought that public opinion would not sanction clubs being placed on the same footing as public-houses. The Royal Commission for various reasons

drew a clear distinction between the two, and laid it down that a club ought not to be dealt with in the same way as a licensed house.

*MR. LUTTRELL

thought this was an extremely important Amendment. This Bill was a Bill to prevent excessive drinking, and to do this the Government were going to close a considerable number of public-houses. One of the objections brought against the Bill generally was that while they were closing public-houses, they were still leaving drinking facilities in other places. That objection had been raised, too, on the ground of the Government treatment not being equal. People might say that while the poorer men would be prevented from getting their drinks in the public-houses, those who could afford to belong to clubs would be able to get what drinks they pleased. This Amendment, if accepted, would get rid of that objection. He could not see that there was any great hardship in saying to clubs that they should not be able to supply drink to their members except at those times when it could be supplied in public-houses. The State had already laid down what, in the interests of the public, those hours should be. In the interest of temperance the Amendment was one which ought to be supported.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 61; Noes, 222. (Division List No. 343.)

AYES.
Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R.	Craik, Sir Henry	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Cross, Alexander	Henry, Charles S.
Barnard, E. B.	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Higham, John Sharp
Barnes, G. N.	Ferens, T. R.	Hodge, John
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)	Fullerton, Hugh	Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield]
Bertram, Julius	Glendinning, R. G.	Hudson, Walter
Branch, James	Gooch, George Peabody (Bath)	Hutton, Alfred Eddison
Byles, William Pollard	Grant, Corrie	Jones, Leif (Appleby)
Cameron, Robert	Gurdon, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Brampton	Kincaid-Smith, Captain
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Clough, William	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Lowe, Sir Francis William	Ridsdale, E. A.	Verney, F. W.
Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire)
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester	Robinson, S.	Wardle, George J.
Mackarness, Frederic C.	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Maclean, Donald	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)	White, Sir George (Norfolk)
M'Arthur, Charles	Snowden, P.	Winfrey, R.
Nicholls, George	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Nussey, Thomas Willans	Steadman, W. C.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr.
Randles, Sir John Sourrah	Sutherland, J. E.	Black and Mr. Lattrell.
Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel	Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ
Richardson, A.	Thorne, William (West Ham)
NOES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.
Agnew, George William	Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.	Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham)
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Dobson, Thomas W.	Lupton, Arnold
Alden, Percy	Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)	Lyell, Charles Henry
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan	Lynch, H. B.
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Erskine, David C.	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.
Astbury, John Meir	Essex, R. W.	M'Callum, John M.
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon. Sir H.	Esslemont, George Birnie	M'Laren, Sir C. B. (Leicester)
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Evans, Sir Samuel T.	M'Micking, Major G.
Balcarres, Lord	Faber, George Denison (York)	Magnus, Sir Philip
Barbury, Sir Frederick George	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Mallet, Charles E.
Barker, John	Fardell, Sir T. George	Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Fletcher, J. S.	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston]
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter	Marnham, F. J.
Beale, W. P.	Gardner, Ernest	Massie, J.
Beaumont, Hon. Hubert	Glen-Coats, Sir T. (Renfrew, W.	Menzies, Walter
Benn, W. (T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Goulding, Edward Alfred	Molteno, Percy Alport
Berridge, T. H. D.	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Mond, A.
Bethell, T. R. (Essex Maldon)	Gretton, John	Morpeth, Viscount
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Griffith, Ellis, J.	Morrison-Bell, Captain
Bottomley, Horatio	Guinness, Hon. R. (Haggerston)	Morton, Alpheus Cleophas
Bowerman, C. W.	Guinness, W. E. (Bury S. Edm.)	Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.]
Bowles, G. Stewart	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Myer, Horatio
Brace, William	Harcourt, Rt. Hn. L. (Rossendale	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose	Norman, Sir Henry
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Brodie, H. C.	Harrison-Broadley, H. B.	Oddy, John James
Brooke, Stopford	Hart-Davies, T.	O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)
Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)	Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)	O'Grady, J.
Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir. J. T. (Cheshire	Hedges, A. Paget	Paulton, James Mellor
Bryce, J. Annan	Helmsley, Viscount	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Pearce, William (Limehouse)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.)	Percy, Earl
Butcher, Samuel Henry	Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.)	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Pirie, Duncan V.
Carlile, E. Hildred	Hill, Sir Clement	Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H.
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Hills, J. W.	Pullar, Sir Robert
Cave, George	Holland, Sir William Henry	Radford, G. H.
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Hooper, A. G.	Rainy, A. Rolland
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Horniman, Emslie John	Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Horridge, Thomas Gardner	Ratcliff, Major R. F.
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S.	Houston, Robert Paterson	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)
Clive, Percy Archer	Hunt, Rowland	Rea, Walter Russell (Searboro')
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Isaacs, Rufus Daniel	Rees, J. D.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Jackson, R. S.	Remnant, James Farquharson
Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W.	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Renton, Leslie
Cooper, G. J.	Jardine, Sir J.	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea)	Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Kekewich, Sir George	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Kerry, Earl of	Robson, Sir William Snowdon
Courthope, G. Loyd	Kimber, Sir Henry	Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)
Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.)	Laidlaw, Robert	Roe, Sir Thomas
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Lamont, Norman	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.)	Layland-Borratt, Sir Francis	Rose, Charles Day
Crooks, William	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.
Crosfield, A. H.	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington	Salter, Arthur Clavell
Curran, Peter Francis	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwch)	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

Scarisbrick, T. T. L.	Summerbell, T.	Whittaker, Rt. Hn.Sir ThomasP.
Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)	Tennant, H. J. Berwickshire)	Wiles, Thomas
Seaverns, J. H.	Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset E)	Williamson, A.
Shipman, Dr. John G.	Thornton, Percy M.	Wills, Arthur Walters
Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	Torrance, Sir A. M.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York. E. R.]
Sloan, Thomas Henry	Toulmin, George	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	Trevelyan, Charles Philips	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Soames, Arthur Wellesley	Walters, John Tudor	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Soares, Ernest J.	Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Spicer, Sir Albert	Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton	Young, Samuel
Stanger, H. Y.	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan	Yoxall, James Henry
Stanier, Reville	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Starkey, John R.	Waterlow, D. S.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Stewart, Halley (Greenock)	Watt, Henry A.	Joseph Pease and Mr. Herbert
Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)	White, J. Dundas (Dumbart'nsh	Lewis.
Strachey, Sir Edward	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Straus, B. S. (Mile End)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)

Amendment proposed— In page 20, line 29, to leave out from the word 'premises' to the end of line 30."—(Mr. Herbert Samuel.)

Amendment agreed to.

Question put, "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 228; Noes, 79. (Division List No. 344.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W.	Henry, Charles S.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.)
Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R.	Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Cory, Sir Clifford John	Higham, John Sharp
Alden, Percy	Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Hodge, John
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Holland, Sir William Henry
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Crooks, William	Hooper, A. G.
Astbury, John Meir	Crosfield, A. H.	Horniman, Emslie John
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Curran, Peter Francis	Horridge, Thomas Gardner
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan	Hudson, Walter
Barker, John	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Hutton, Alfred Eddison
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.	Hyde, Clarendon
Barnard, E. B.	Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon	Isaacs, Rufus Daniel
Barnes, G. N.	Dobson, Thomas W.	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Jardine, Sir J.
Beale, W. P.	Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea
Beaumont, Hon. Hubert	Erskine, David C.	Jones, Leif (Appleby)
Bellairs, Carlyon	Essex, R. W.	Kekewich, Sir George
Benn, W. (T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Esslemont, George Birnie	Laidlaw, Robert
Berridge, T. H. D.	Evans, Sir Samuel T.	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Lamont, Norman
Black, Arthur W.	Ferens, T. R.	Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis
Bottomley, Horatio	Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington
Brace, William	Fullerton, Hugh	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)
Branch, James	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Glen-Coats, Sir T. (Renfrew, W.	Lupton, Arnold
Brodie, H. C.	Glendinning, R. G.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Brooke, Stopford	Gooch, George Peabody (Bath)	Lyell, Charles Henry
Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)	Grant, Corrie	Lynch, H. B.
Bryce, J. Annan	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Griffith, Ellis J.	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Gurdon, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Brampton	Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Mackarness, Frederic C.
Byles, William Pollard	Harcourt, Rt. Hn. L. (Rossendale	Maclean, Donald
Cameron, Robert	Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose)	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.
Cave, George	Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)	M'Callum, John M.
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	M'Laren, Sir C. B. (Leicester)
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	M'Micking, Major G.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.	Mallet, Charles E.
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S.	Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)	Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)
Clough, William	Hedges, A. Paget	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Marnham, F. J.
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Henderson,. J. M. (Aberdeen, W.)	Massie, J.
Menzies, Walter	Robinson, S.	Thomasson, Franklin
Molteno, Percy Alport	Robson, Sir William Snowdon	Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E.
Mond, A.	Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)	Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)
Montagu, Hon. E. S.	Roe, Sir Thomas	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Rose, Charles Day	Toulmin, George
Morpeth, Viscount	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Verney, F. W.
Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.)	Salter, Arthur Clavell	Walters, John Tudor
Myer, Horatio	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)	Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent)
Nicholls, George	Scarisbrick, T. T. L.	Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton
Norman, Sir Henry	Sears, J. E.	Wardle, George J.
Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Seaverns, J. H.	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan
Nussey,. Thomas Willans	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Wason, John Catheart (Orkney)
O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Waterlow, D. S.
Paulton, James Mellor	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	Watt, Henry A.
Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Sloan, Thomas Henry	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	While, Sir George (Norfolk)
Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington	Snowden, P.	White, J. Dundas (Dumbart'nsh
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Soames, Arthur Wellesley	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Soares, Ernest J.	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Pirie, Duncan V.	Spicer, Sir Albert	Whittaker, Rt. Hn. Sir Thomas P.
Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H.	Stanger, H. Y.	Wiles, Thomas
Pullar, Sir Robert	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Radford, G. H.	Steadman, W. C.	Williamson, A.
Rainy, A. Rolland	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)	Wills, Arthur Walters
Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel	Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Strachey, Sir Edward	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)	Winfrey, R.
Rees, J. D.	Summerbell, T.	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n	Sutherland, J. E.	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Richardson, A.	Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ.	Yoxall, James Hemy
Ridsdale, E. A.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr.
Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)	Joseph Pease and Mr. Herbert
Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)	Lewis.
NOES.
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Goulding, Edward Alfred	Percy, Earl
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon. Sir H.	Gretton, John	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Balcarres, Lord	Guinness, Hon. R. (Haggerston)	Randles, Sir John Seurrah
Baldwin, Stanley	Guinness, W. E. (Bury S. Edm.)	Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Harrison-Broadley, H. B.	Ratcliff, Major R. F.
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)	Helmsley, Viscount	Remnant, James Farquharson
Bertram, Julius	Hill, Sir Clement	Renton, Leslie
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hills, J. W.	Renwick, George
Bowerman, C. W.	Houston, Robert Paterson	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Bowles, G. Stewart	Hunt, Rowland	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Jackson, R. S.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Butcher, Samuel Henry	Kerry, Earl of	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Carlile, E. Hildred	Kimber, Sir Henry	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	King, Sir Henry Seymour (Hull)	Stanier, Beville
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham	Starkey, John R.
Clive, Percy Archer	Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.	Thorne, William (West Ham)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham	Thornton, Percy M.
Cooper, G. J.	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.)	Valentia, Viscount
Courthope, G. Loyd	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire)
Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.	Lowe, Sir Francis William	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Craig, Captain James (Down, E)	MacCaw, William J. MacGeagh	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Craik, Sir Henry	M'Arthur, Charles	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Cross, Alexander	Magnus, Sir Philip	Young, Samuel
Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan	Morrison-Bell, Captain
Faber, George Denison (York)	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Fardell, Sir T. George	Nield, Herbert	Mr. Evelyn Cecil and Mr.
Fletcher, J. S.	Oddy, John James	Leverton Harris.
Gardner, Ernest	O'Grady, J.

And, it being Five of the clock, the CHAIRMAN proceeded, in pursuance of the Order of the House of the 17th July, successively to put forthwith the Question on the Amendments moved by the Government, of which notice had been given, and the Questions necessary to dispose of the Business to be concluded this day.

Clause 43:

Amendments proposed— In page 21, line 10, to leave out from the word 'resolution' to the word 'and' in line 12. In page 21, line 14, after the word 'Wales' to insert the words 'with the exception that a majority of two-thirds of the votes given shall be required for the carrying of the resolution or the extinction of all on-licences instead of a bare majority and.'

"In page 21, line 32, to leave out the word 'a,' and to insert the words 'the necessary.'"—(Sir S. Evans.)

Amendments agreed to.

Question put, "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 224; Noes, 84. (Division List No. 345.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Erskine, David C.	Maclean, Donald
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Essex, R. W.	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.
Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R.	Esslemont, George, Birnie	M'Callum, John M.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Evans, Sir Samuel T.	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald
Alden, Percy	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	M'Laren, Sir C. B. (Leicester)
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud	Ferens, T. R.	M'Micking, Major G.
Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert Henry	Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter	Mallet, Charles E.
Astbury, John Meir	Fullerton, Hugh	Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Glen-Coates, Sir T. (Renfrew, W.	Marnham, F. J.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Glendinning, R. G.	Massie, J.
Barker, John	Gooch, George Peabody (Bath)	Menzies, Walter
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Grant, Corrie	Molteno, Percy Alport
Barnes, G. N.	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Mond, A.
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Griffith, Ellis J.	Montagu, Hon. E. S.
Beale, W. P.	Gurdon, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Brampton	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)
Beaumont, Hon. Hubert	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Morton, Alpheus Cleophas
Bellairs, Carlyon	Harcourt, Rt. Hn. L. (Rossendale	Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.)
Benn, Sir J. Williams (Devonp'rt	Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose)	Myer, Horatio
Benn, W. (T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Nicholls, George
Berridge, T. H. D.	Hart-Davies, T.	Norman, Sir Henry
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Black, Arthur W.	Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Bowerman, C. W.	Hedges, A. Paget	O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)
Brace, William	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	O'Grady, J.
Branch, James	Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.)	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Henry, Charles S.	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)
Brodie, H. C.	Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.)	Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Brooke, Stopford	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Pirie, Duncan V.
Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)	Higham, John Sharp	Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H.
Bryce, J. Annan	Hodge, John	Pullar, Sir Robert
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Holland, Sir William Henry	Radford, G. H.
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Hooper, A. G.	Rainy, A. Rolland
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Horniman, Emslie John	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)
Byles, William Pollard	Horridge, Thomas Gardner	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'
Cameron, Robert	Hudson, Walter	Rees, J. D.
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Hutton, Alfred Eddison	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n)
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Hyde, Clarendon	Richardson, A.
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Isaacs, Rufus Daniel	Ridsdale, E. A.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Jackson, R. S.	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S.	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd
Clough, William	Jardine, J.	Robinson, S.
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea)	Robson, Sir William Snowdon
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)
Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W.	Kekewich, Sir George	Roe, Sir Thomas
Cooper, G. J.	Laidlaw, Robert	Rose, Charles Day
Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Lamont, Norman	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.
Cory, Sir Clifford John	Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford
Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Leese, Sir Joseph E. (Accrington	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Crooks, William	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Sears, J. E.
Crosfield, A. H.	Lupton, Arnold	Seaverns, J. H.
Curran, Peter Francis	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Shaw, Rt. Hon. (Hawick, B.)
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Lyell, Charles Henry	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Lynch, H. B.	Simon, John Allsebrook
Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Ducan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)	Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs)	Sloan, Thomas Henry
Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Snowdon, P.	Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Soames, Arthur Wellesley	Thorne, William (West Ham)	Whitehead, Rowland
Soares, Ernest J.	Torrance, Sir A. M.	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Spicer, Sir Albert	Toulmin, George	Whittaker, Rt. Hn. Sir Thomas P.
Stanger, H. Y.	Trevelyan, Charles Philips	Wiles, Thomas
Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)	Verney, F. W.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Steadman W. C.	Walters, John Tudor	Williamson, A.
Stewart, Halley (Greenock)	Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent)	Wills, Arthur Walters
Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)	Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Strachey, Sir Edward	Wardle, George J.	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Straus, B. S. (Mile End)	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan	Winfrey, R.
Summerbell, T.	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Sutherland, J. E.	Waterlow, D. S.	Yoxall, James Henry
Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	Watt, Henry A.
Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr.
Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E)	White, Sir George (Norfolk)	Joseph Pease and Mr
Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E.	White, J. Dundas(Dumbart'nsh.	Herbert Lewis.
NOES.
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Goulding, Edward Alfred	Oddy, John James
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Gretton, John	Percy, Earl
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.	Guinness, Hn. R. (Haggerston)	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Balcarres, Lord	Guinness, W. E. (Bury S. Edm.)	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Baldwin, Stanley	Harris, Frederick Leverton	Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Harrison-Broadley, H. B.	Ratcliff, Major R. F.
Barnard G. B.	Heaton, John Henniker	Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)	Helmsley, Viscount	Remnant, James Farquharson
Bertram, Julius	Hill, Sir Clement	Renton, Leslie
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hills, J. W.	Renwick, George
Bowles, G. Stewart	Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Houston, Robert Paterson	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Butcher, Samuel Henry	Hunt, Rowland	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Carlile, E. Hildred	Joynson-Hicks, William	Salter, Arthur Clavell
Cave, George	Kerry, Earl of	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Kimber, Sir Henry	Stanier, Beville
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	King, Sir Henry Seymour (Hull)	Starkey, John R.
Clive, Percy Archer	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham	Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.	Thornton, Percy M.
Courthope, G. Loyd	Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham	Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire)
Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S)	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-
Craik, Sir Henry	Lowe, Sir Francis William	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Cross, Alexander	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Young, Samuel
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon	MacCaw, William J. MacGeagh
Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan	M'Arthur, Charles	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Viscount
Faber, George Denison (York)	Magnus, Sir Philip	Valentia and Mr. Pike
Fardell, Sir T. George	Morrison-Bell, Captain	Pease.
Fletcher, J. S.	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)
Gardner, Ernest	Nield, Herbert

Clause 44:

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 230; Noes, 77. (Division List No. 346.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Beale, W. P.	Bryce, J. Annan
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Beaumont, Hon. Hubert	Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn
Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R.	Bellairs, Carlyon	Burns, Rt. Hon. John
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Benn, Sir J. Williams (Devonp'rt	Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles
Alden, Percy	Benn, W. (T'W'r Hamlets, S. Geo)	Byles, William Pollard
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Berridge, T. H. D.	Cameron, Robert
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Carr-Gomm, H. W.
Astbury, John Meir	Black, Arthur W.	Cawley, Sir Frederick
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Bowerman, C. W.	Channing, Sir Francis Allston
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Brace, William	Cheetham, John Frederick
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Branch, James	Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S.
Barker, John	Brocklehurst, W. B.	Clough, William
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Brodie, H. C.	Cobbold, Felix Thornley
Barnard, E. B.	Brooke, Stopford	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)
Barnes, G. N.	Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)	Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W.
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T. (Cheshire	Cooper, G. J.

Question put, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."

Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Cory, Sir Clifford John	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Scarisbrick, T. T. L.
Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Lupton, Arnold	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Cox, Harold	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Sears, J. E.
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Lyell, Charles Henry	Seaverns, J. H.
Crooks, William	Lynch, H. B.	Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick, B.)
Crosfield, A. H.	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Curran, Peter Francis	Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs	Simon, John Allsebrook
Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan)	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Maclean, Donald	Sloan, Thomas Henry
Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N)	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)	Snowden, P.
Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)	M'Callum, John M.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Erskine, David C.	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald	Soares, Ernest J.
Essex, R. W.	M'Laren, Sir (C. B. (Leicester)	Spicer, Sir Albert
Esslemont, George Birnie	M'Micking, Major G.	Stanger, H. Y.
Evans, Sir Samuel T.	Mallet, Charles E.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Ghesh.)
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)	Steadman, W. C.
Ferens, T. R.	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter	Marnham, F. J.	Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)
Fullerton, Hugh	Massie, J.	Strachey, Sir Edward
Gibb, James (Harrow)	Menzies, Walter	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Glen-Coats, Sir T. (Renfrew, W.)	Molteno, Percy Alport	Sutherland, J. E.
Glendinning, R. G.	Mond, A.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Gooch, George Peabody (Bath)	Montagu, Hon. E. S.	Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)
Grant, Corrie	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)
Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E.
Griffith, Ellis J.	Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.)	Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)
Gurdon, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Brampton	Myer, Horatio	Thorne, William (West Ham)
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Newnes, F. (Notts, Bassetlaw)	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Harcourt, Rt. Hn. L. (Rossendale	Nicholls, George	Toulmin, George
Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose)	Norman, Sir Henry	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Verney, F. W.
Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r.)	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Walters, John Tudor
Hart-Davies, T.	O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)	Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)
Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.	O'Grady, J.	Ward, W. Dudley (Southampt'n)
Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Wardle, George J.
Hedges, A. Pagot	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Philips, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.)	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Waterlow, D. S.
Henry, Charles S.	Pirie, Duncan V.	Watt, Henry A.
Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.)	Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H.	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Pullar, Sir Robert	White, Sir George (Norfolk)
Higham, John Sharp	Radford, G. H.	White, J. Dundas (Dumbart'nsh.
Hodge, John	Rainy, A. Rolland	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Holland, Sir William Henry	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Whitehead, Rowland
Horniman, Emslie John	Rea, Walter Russell (Searboro')	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Horridge, Thomas Gardner	Rees, J. D.	Whittaker, Rt. Hn. Sir Thomas P.
Hudson, Walter	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n)	Wiles, Thomas
Hyde, Clarendon	Richardson, A.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Isaacs, Rufus Daniel	Ridsdale, E. A.	Williamson, A.
Jackson, R. S.	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Wills, Arthur Walters
Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Robertson, Sir C. Scott (Bradf'rd	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Jardine, Sir J.	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea)	Robinson, S.	Winfrey, R.
Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Robson, Sir William Snowdon	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Kekewich, Sir George	Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)	Yoxall, James Henry
Laidlaw, Robert	Roe, Sir Thomas
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Rose, Charles Day	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Lamont, Norman	Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter	Mr. Joseph Pease and Mr.
Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.	Herbert Lewis.

NOES.
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Bridgeman, W. Clive	Craig, Captain James (Down, E.)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Carlile, E. Hildred	Craik, Sir Henry
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon. Sir H.	Cave, George	Cross, Alexander
Baldwin, Stanley	Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)	Clive, Percy Archer	Faber, George Denison (York)
Bertram, Julius	Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Fardell, Sir T. George
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Courthope, G. Loyd	Fletcher, J. S.
Bowles, G. Stewart	Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.	Gardner, Ernest

Goulding, Edward Alfred	Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.	Renton, Leslie
Gretton, John	Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham)	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Eeclesall)
Guinness, Hon. R. (Haggerston)	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.)	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Guinness, W. E. (Bury S. Edm.)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Harris, Frederick Leverton	Lowe, Sir Francis William	Salter, Arthur Clavell
Harrison- Broadley, H. B.	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Heaton, John Henniker	MacCaw, William J. MacGeagh	Stanier, Reville
Helmsley, Viscount	M'Arthur, Charles	Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'rd Univ.
Hill, Sir Clement	Magnus, Sir Philip	Thornton, Percy M.
Hills, J. W.	Morrison-Bell, Captain	Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire)
Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield)	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)	Wilson, A. Sranley (York, E. R.)
Houston, Robert Paterson	Nield, Herbert	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Hunt, Rowland	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Joynson-Hicks, William	Randles, Sir John Scurrah	Young, Samuel
Kerry, Earl of	Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Kimber, Sir Henry	Ratcliffe, Major R. F.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
King, Sir Henry Seymour (Hull)	Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel	Viscount Valentia and Mr.
Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham)	Remnant, James Farquharson	Pike Pease.

Clause 45:

Amendment proposed— In page 22, line 34, to leave out from the word 'they' to the word 'and' in line 36, and insert the words 'were buildings newly erected.'"—(Sir S. Evans.)

Question put, "That the Amendment be made."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 226;Noes, 73. (Division List No. 347.)

Molteno, Percy Alport	Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)	Thorne, William (West Ham)
Mond, A.	Roe, Sir Thomas	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Montague, Hon. E. S.	Rose, Charles Day	Toulmin, George
Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.	Verney, F. W.
Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.)	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Walters, John Tudor
Myer, Horatio	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)	Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)
Napier, T. B.	Scarisbrick, T. T. L.	Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton
Norman, Sir Henry	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)	Wardle, George J.
Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Sears, J. E.	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan
Nussey, Thomas Willans	Seaverns, J. H.	Wason, John Catheart (Orkney)
O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.)	Waterlow, D. S.
O'Grady, J.	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Watt, Henry A.
Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Simon, John, Allsebrook	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	White, Sir George (Norfolk)
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Sloan, Thomas Henry	White, J. Dundas (Dumbart'nsh.
Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Pirie, Duncan V.	Snowden, P.	Whitehead, Rowland
Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Pullar, Sir Robert	Soares, Ernest J.	Whittaker, Rt. Hn.Sir ThomasP.
Radford, G. H.	Spicer, Sir Albert	Wiles, Thomas
Rainy, A. Rolland	Stanger, H. Y.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph(Chesh.)	Williamson, A.
Rea, Waller Russell (Scarboro'	Steadman, W. C.	Wills, Arthur Walters
Rees, J. D.	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n	Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Richardson, A.	Strachey, Sir Edward	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Ridsdale, E. A.	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)	Yoxall, James Henry
Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Sutherland, J. E.
Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd	Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)	Mr. Joseph Pease, and Mr.
Robinson, S.	Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E.	Herbert Lewis.
Robson, Sir William Snowdon	Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)

NOES.
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Guinness, Hon. R. (Haggerston)	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Guinness, W. E. (Bury S. Edm.)	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.	Harris, Frederick Leverton	Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Banhury, Sir Frederick George	Harrison-Broadley, H. B.	Ratcliff, Major, R. F.
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)	Heaton, John Henniker	Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel
Bertram, Julius	Helmsley, Viscount	Remnant, James Farquharson
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hill, Sir Clement	Renton, Leslie
Bowles, G. Stewart	Hills, J. W.	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hope,, James Fitzalan (Sheffield	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Carlile, E. Hildred	Houston, Robert Paterson	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	Salter, Arthur Clavell
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Joynson-Hicks, William	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone E.)	Kerry, Earl of	Stanier, Beville
Clive, Percy Archer	Kimber, Sir Henry	Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	King, Sir Henry Seymour (Hall)	Thornton, Percy M.
Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.)	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham	Walker, Col. W. J. T. (Lancashire)
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.)	Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Craik, (Sir Henry	Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Cross, Alexander	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.)	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan	Lowe, Sir Francis William	Young, Samuel
Faber, George Denison (York)	MacCaw, William J. MacGeagh
Fardell, Sir T. George	M'Arthur, Charles	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Fletcher, J. S.	Magnus, Sir Philip	Viscount Valentia and Mr.
Gardner, Ernest	Morrison-Bell, Captain	Pike Pease.
Goulding, Edward Alfred	Neild, Herbert

Amendment proposed— In page 22, line 38, to leave out from the word 'apply' to the word 'and' in line 40, and insert the words 'accordingly; and for the purpose of all the provisions so applied the owner or other person in receipt of the rent of the premises shall be treated as a ratepayer, whether he is in fact a ratepayer or not.' In page 23, line 1, to leave out the word 'eighteen,' and insert the word 'seven.' In page 23, line 2, to leave out the word '1907,' and tinsert the word '1908.' In page 23, line 5, to leave out the word 'seven,' and to insert the word 'eight.'"—(Sir S. Evans.)

Amendments agreed to.

Question put, "That the clause, as I amended, stand part of the Bill."

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Glen-Coats, Sir T. (Renfrew, W.)	Norman, Sir Henry
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Glendinning, R. G.	Norman, Capt. Cecil William
Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R.	Gooch, George Peabody (Bath)	Nussey, Thomas William
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Grant, Corrie	O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)
Alden, Percy	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	O'Grady, J.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Griffith, Ellis J.	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Gurdon, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Brampton	Philips, Owen C. (Pembroke)
Astbury, John Meir	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Harcourt, Rt. Hn. L. (Rossendale	Pirie, Duncan V.
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose)	Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Pullar, Sir Robert
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r.)	Radford, G. H.
Barnard, E. B.	Hart-Davies, T.	Rainy, A. Holland
Barnes, G. N.	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)	Rees, J. D.
Beale, W. P.	Hedges, A. Paget	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Beaumont, Hon. Hubert	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Richardson, A.
Bellairs, Carlyon	Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.)	Ridsdale, E. A.
Benn, Sir J. Williams (Devonp'rt	Henry, Charles S.	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Benn, W. (T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo)	Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.)	Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd
Berridge, T. H. D.	Higham, John Sharp	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Hodge, John	Robinson, S.
Black, Arthur W.	Holland, Sir William Henry	Robson, Sir William Snowdon
Bowerman, C. W.	Hooper, A. G.	Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)
Brace, William	Horniman, Emslie John	Roe, Sir Thomas
Branch, James	Horridge, Thomas Gardner	Rose, Charles Day
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Hudson, Walter	Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter
Brodie, H. C.	Hyde, Clarendon	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.
Brooke, Stopford	Isaacs, Rufus Daniel	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)	Jackson, R. S.	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Bryce, J. Annan	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Scarisbrick, T. T. L.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Jardine, Sir J.	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea)	Sears, J. E.
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Seaverns, J. H.
Byles, William Pollard	Kekewich, Sir George	Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick B.)
Cameron, Robert	Laidlaw, Robert	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Simon, John Allsebrook
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Lamont, Norman	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis	Sloan, Thomas Henry
Cheetham, John Frederick	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S.	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Snowden, P.
Clough, William	Lupton, Arnold	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Soares, Ernest J.
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Lyell, Charles Henry	Spicer, Sir Albert
Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W.	Lynch, H. B.	Stanger, H. Y.
Cooper, G. J.	Macdonald, J. M. (Leicester)	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs	Steadman, W. C.
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Cory, Sir Clifford John	Maclean, Donald	Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)
Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Strachey, Sir Edward
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth	M'Callum, John M.	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Crooks, William	M'Laren, Sir C. B. (Leicestor)	Sutherland, J. E.
Crosfield, A. H.	M'Mickirg, Major G.	Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)
Curran, Peter Francis	Mallet, Charles E.	Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)	Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E.
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)	Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton
Dickinson, W. H. (St, Pancras, N.	Marnham, F. J.	Thorne, William (West Ham)
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Massie, J.	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Erskine, David C.	Menzies, Walter	Toulmin, George
Essex, R. W.	Molteno, Percy Alport	Verney, F. W.
Esslemont, George Birnie	Mond, A.	Walters, John Tudor
Evans, Sir Samuel T.	Montagu, Hon. E. S.	Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent)
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Ward, W. Dudley (Southampt'n)
Ferens, T. R.	Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Wardle, George J.
Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter	Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.)	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan
Fullerton, Hugh	Myer, Horatio	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Gibb, James (Harrow)	Napier, T. B.	Waterlow, D. S.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 217; Noes, 72. (Division List No. 348.)

Watt, Henry A.	Whittaker, Rt. Hn. Sir Thomas P.	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Wedgwood, Josiah C.	Wiles, Thomas	Yoxall, James Henry
White, Sir George (Norfolk)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
White, J. Dundas (Dumbart'nsh.	Williamson, A.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
White, Luke (York, E. R.)	Wills, Arthur Walters	Mr. Joseph Pease and Mr.
Whitehead, Rowland	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)	Herbert Lewis.
Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

NOES
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Guinness, Hn. R. (Haggerston)	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Guinness, W. E. (Bury S. Edm.)	Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.	Harris, Frederick Leverton	Ratcliff, Major R. F.
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Heaton, John Henniker	Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)	Hill, Sir Clement	Remnant, James Farquharson
Bertram, Julius	Hills, J. W.	Renton, Leslie
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield)	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Bowles, G. Stewart	Houston, Robert Paterson	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hunt, Rowland	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Carlile, E. Hildred	Joynson-Hicks, William	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Cave, George	Kerry, Earl of	Stanier, Beville
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Kimber, Sir Henry	Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ.
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	King, Sir Henry Seymour (Hull)	Thornton, Percy M.
Clive, Percy Archer	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham	Valentia, Viscount
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.	Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire)
Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S)	Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Craik, Sir Henry	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-
Cross, Alexander	Lowe, Sir Francis William	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon	MacCaw, William J. MacGeagh	Young, Samuel
Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan	M'Arthur, Charles
Faber, George Denison (York)	Magnus, Sir Philip	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Fardell, Sir T. George	Morrison-Bell, Captain	Viscount Helmsley and Mr.
Fletcher, J. S.	Nield, Herbert	Salter.
Gardner, Ernest	Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington
Goulding, Edward Alfred	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp

Clause 46:

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 204; Noes, 59. (Division List No. 349.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Branch, James	Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan)
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Brodie, H. C.	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)
Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R.	Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)	Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Bryce, J. Annan	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness
Alden, Percy	Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Erskine, David C.
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Evans, Sir Samuel T.
Astbury, John Meir	Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Faber, G. H. (Boston)
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Byles, William Pollard	Ferens, T. R.
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Cameron, Robert	Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Gibb, James (Harrow)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Cawley, Sir Frederick	Glen-Coats, Sir T. (Renfrew, W.
Barnard, E. B.	Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Glendinning, R. G.
Barnes, G. N.	Cheetham, John Frederick	Gooch, George Peabody (Bath)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S.	Grant, Corrie
Beale, W. P.	Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)
Beaumont, Hon. Hubert	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Griffith, Ellis J.
Bellairs, Carlyon	Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W.	Gurdon, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Brampton
Benn, Sir J. Williams (Devonp'rt	Cooper, G. J.	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.
Benn, W. (T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Harcourt, Rt. Hn. L. (Rossendale
Berridge, T. H. D.	Cory, Sir Clifford John	Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose)
Bertram, Julius	Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)
Black, Arthur W.	Crooks, William	Hart-Davies, T.
Bowerman, C. W.	Crosfield, A. H.	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.
Brace, William	Curran, Peter Francis	Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

Question, put, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."

Hedges, A. Paget	Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Spicer, Sir Albert
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.)	Stanger, H. Y.
Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.)	Myer, Horatio	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.
Henry, Charles S.	Napier, T. B.	Steadman, W. C.
Hodge, John	Norman, Sir Henry	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Holland, Sir William Henry	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)
Hooper, A. G.	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Strachey, Sir Edward
Horridge, Thomas Gardner	O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Hudson, Walter	O'Grady, J.	Sutherland, J. E.
Hyde, Clarendon	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)
Isaacs, Rufus Daniel	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)
Jackson, R. S.	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E.
Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)
Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea	Pirie, Duncan V.	Thorne, William (West Ham)
Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Pullar, Sir Robert	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Kekewich, Sir George	Radford, G. H.	Toulmin, George
Laidlaw, Robert	Rainy, A. Rolland	Verney, F. W.
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Walters, John Tudor
Lamont, Norman	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'	Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)
Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis	Rees, J. D.	Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton
Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n	Wardle, George J.
Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Richardson, A.	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan
Lupton, Arnold	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd	Waterlow, D. S.
Lyell, Charles Henry	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Watt, Henry A.
Lynch, H. B.	Robinson, S.	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester,	Robson, Sir William Snowdon	White, Sir George (Norfolk)
Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs	Roch, Waller F. (Pembroke)	White, J. Dundas (Dumbart'nsh.
Mackarness, Frederic C.	Roe, Sir Thomas	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Maclean, Donald	Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter	Whitehead, Rowland
Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Whittaker, Rt. Hn.Sir ThomasP.
M'Callum, John M.	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald	Scarisbrick, T. T. L.	Williamson, A.
M'Laren, Sir C. B. (Leicester)	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)	Wills, Arthur Walters
M'Micking, Major G.	Sears, J. E.	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.
Mullet, Charles K.	Seaverns, J. H.	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Yoxall, James Henry
Marnham, F. J.	Simon, John Allsebrook
Massie, J.	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	TELLERS FOR THE AVES—Mr
Menzies, Walter	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	Joseph Pease and Mr.
Mond, A.	Snowden, P.	Herbert Lewis.
Montagu, Hon. E. S.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Soares, Ernest J.

NOES.
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Goulding, Edward Alfred	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Guinness, Hon. R. (Haggerston)	Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon. Sir H.	Guinness, W. K. (Bury S. Edm.)	Ratcliff, Major R. F.
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.	Hill, Sir Clement	Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hills, J. W.	Remnant, James Farquharson
Bowles, G. Stewart	Houston, Robert Paterson	Renton, Leslie
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hunt, Rowland	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Carlile, E. Hildred	Kerry, Earl of	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Cave, George	Kimber, Sir Henry	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	King, Sir Henry Seymour (Hull)	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham	Stanier, Beville
Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.	Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham	Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ.
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.)	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.	Thornton, Percy M.
Craik, Sir Henry	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Cross, Alexander	Lows, Sir Francis William	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon	MacCaw, William. J. MacGeagh	Wortley, RT. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan	M'Arthur Charles	Young, Samuel
Faber, George Denison (York)	Magnus, Sir Philip
Fardell, Sir T. George	Morrison-Bell, Captain	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Fletcher, J. S.	Nield, Herbert	Pike Pease and Mr. James
Gardner, Ernest	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp	Hope,

Clause 47 agreed to.

New clause— In page 21, after Clause 43, to insert the following clause: (1) In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires: (a) The expression "urban area" means a ward in the case of a borough or urban district divided into wards, and a borough or urban district in the case of a borough or urban district not divided into wards, and for the purposes of the definition of an "urban area" a metropolitan borough shall be deemed to be a borough. Where at the passing of this Act part of an urban area is situated in one licensing district and part in another, the Secretary of State shall make such an order as may be necessary for the purpose of securing that the whole of the urban area shall be included in one licensing district, and may by the order cither alter the boundaries of the licensing districts, or, if be is of opinion that each part of the area can properly be treated as a separate urban area, declare that each

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Cheetham, John Frederick	Hedges, A. Paget
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)
Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R.	Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.)
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Henry, Charles S.
Alden, Percy	Cooper, G. J.	Hodge, John
Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert Henry	Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Hooper, A. G.
Astbury, John Meir	Cory, Sir Clifford John	Horniman, Emslie John
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Horridge, Thomas Gardner
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Hudson, Walter
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Crooks, William	Hyde, Clarendon
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Crosfield, A. H.	Isaacs, Rufus Daniel
Barnard, E. B.	Curran, Peter Francis	Jackson, R. S.
Barnes, G. N.	Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea
Beale, W. P.	Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.	Jones, Leif (Appleby)
Beaumont, Hon. Hubert	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Kekewich, Sir George
Bellairs, Carlyon	Erskine, David C.	Laidlaw, Robert
Benn, Sir J. Williams (Devonp'rt	Evans, Sir Samuel T.	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Benn, W. (T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Lamont, Norman
Berridge, T. H. D.	Forens, T. R.	Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)
Blank, Arthur W.	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David
Bowerman, C. W.	Glen-Coats, Sir T. (Renfrew, W.	Lupton, Arnold
Brace, William	Glendinning, R. G.	Lyell, Charles Henry
Brunch, James	Gooch, George Peabody (Bath)	Lynch, H. B.
Brodie, H. C.	Grant, Corrie	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs
Bryce, J. Annan	Griffith, Ellis J.	Mackarness, Frederic C.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Gurdon, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Brampton	Maclean, Donald
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Harcourt, Rt. Hn. L. (Rossendale	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.
Byles, William Pollard	Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose)	M'Callum, John M.
Cameron, Robert	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Hart-Davies, T.	M'Laren, Sir C. B. (Leicester)
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.	M'Micking, Major G.
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)	Mallet, Charles E.

part shall be so treated, and the order shall take effect accordingly; (b) the expression "rural parish" means a parish in a rural district; (c) the expression "Licensing Acts' means the Licensing Acts, 1828 to 1906, and this Act. (2) Any reference in this Act to any provision of the Licensing Acts, 1828 to 1906, which has been amended by any subsequent Act, or is amended by this Act, shall be construed as a reference to the provision as so amended.'"—(Sir S. Evans.)

Brought up, and read the first time.

Question put, "That the clause be added to the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 198; Noes, 58. (Division List No. 350.)

Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)	Robson, Sir William Snowdon	Thorne, William (West Ham)
Marnham, F. J.	Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Massie, J.	Roe, Sir Thomas	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Menzies, Walter	Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter	Verney, F. W.
Mond, A.	Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.	Walters, John Tudor
Montagu, Hon. E. S.	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)
Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)	Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton
Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Scarisbrick, T. T. L.	Wardle, George J.
Murray, James (Aberdeen, E.)	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)	Wason, Rt. Hn. E. (Clackmannan
Myer, Horatio	Sears, J. E.	Wason, John Catheart (Orkney)
Napier, T. B.	Seaverns, J. H.	Waterlow, D. S.
Norman, Sir Henry	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Watt, Henry A.
Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Nussey, Thomas Willans	Simon, John Allsebrook	White, Sir George (Norfolk)
O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	White, J. Dundas (Dumbart'nsh
O'Grady, J.	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Snowden, P.	Whitehead, Rowland
Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Soames, Arthur Wellesley	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Soares, Ernest J.	Whittaker, Rt. Hn. Sir Thomas P.
Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Spicer, Sir Albert	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Pirie, Duncan V.	Stanger, H. Y.	Williamson, A.
Pullar, Sir Robert	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)	Wills, Arthur Walters
Radford, G. H.	Steadman, W. C.	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Rainy, A. Rolland	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)	Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'	Strachev, Sir Edward	Yoxall, James Henry
Rees, J. D.	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Richardson, A.	Sutherland, J. E.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)	Mr. Joseph Pease and Mr.
Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd	Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)	Herbert Lewis
Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E.
Robinson, S.	Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)

NOES.
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Guinness, W. E. (Bury S. Edm.)	Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Hill, Sir Clement	Ratcliff, Major R. F.
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon. Sir H.	Hills, J. W.	Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)	Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield)	Remnant, James Farquharson
Bertram, Julius	Houston, Robert Paterson	Renton, Leslie
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hunt, Rowland	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Bowles, G. Stewart	Kerry, Earl of	Ronaldshay, Earl of
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Kimber, Sir Henry	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Carlile, E. Hildred	King, Sir Henry Seymour (Hull)	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Cave, George	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham	Stanier, Beville
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham	Talbot, Rt, Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.	Thornton, Percy M.
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	White, Patrick (Meath, North),
Craik, Sir Henry	Lowe, Sir Francis William	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Cross, Alexander	MacCaw, William J. MacGeagh	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon	M'Arthur, Charles	Young, Samuel
Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan	Magnus, Sir Philip
Fletcher, J. S.	Morrison-Bell, Captain	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Gardner, Ernest	Nield, Herbert	Pike Pease and Mr. George
Goulding, Edward Alfred	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp	D. Faber.
Guinness, Hon. R. (Haggerston)	Randles, Sir John Scurrah

Committee report Progress; to sit again upon Monday next.

And, it being half-past Five of the Clock, Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 3.

Adjourned at nine minutes before Six o'clock till Monday next.