§ MR. CARLILE (Hertfordshire, St. Albans)I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that the Bahamian turtling schooner "Georgie" was seized in the month of May, 1908, by the Cuban authorities and conveyed to the port of Santiago, where, the owners were fined for alleged illegal fishing in Cuban waters; 974 whether the "Georgie" was at once released and the fine remitted in consequence of the energetic action of the British Consul at Santiago; whether the schooners "General" and "Emma Smith" were seized by the Cuban authorities under identical circumstances and taken to Cienfuegos, where there is no British Consul; whether His Majesty's Minister at Havana failed to take the necessary steps for their release, and whether, as a consequence, the catch in these cases was confiscated, the vessels and crews detained for three months, and the owners heavily fined; whether the Government propose to take steps, and, if so, what steps, to obtain suitable compensation; and whether he is aware that captains of vessels hitherto engaged in this industry now refuse to continue in it because they fear they will be killed by the Cubans.
§ SIR EDWARD GREYThe information received by His Majesty's Government with regard to the incidents referred to by the hon. Member is to the following effect: The Bahamian schooner "Georgie" was seized by the Cuban revenue cutter "Baire" on 23rd May, and taken to Santiago de Cuba. The commander of the "Baire" stated that the vessel was, at the time of her capture, one mile from the shore. The master of the "Georgie" stated that she was five miles from the shore. The "Georgie" was not accused of illegal fishing. A fine was imposed on the vessel, because one live turtle and thirty-three shells of turtles below the legal size were found on board her, and these and the remaining turtle shells on board were confiscated on the ground that the animals from which they were secured had been taken in Cuban waters. His Majesty's Minister at Havana was immediately informed of the incident by His Majesty's Consul at Santiago, and made representations to the Cuban Government. In consequence of these representations, the fine was entirely remitted, and the vessel finally released by a Government decree of 14th August. The schooners "General" and "Emma Smith" were seized on 11th May, but not under similar circumstances to the "Georgie." On 12th May, the day after the capture of the schooners, the British 975 Vice-Consul telegraphed particulars to His Majesty's Minister at Havana. The latter lost no time in approaching the Cuban Government, and did, I am convinced, all that it was possible to do to expedite the release of the vessels. Owing to his representations, the fines were reduced from $940 in the case of the "General" to $440, and from $830 in the case of the "Emma Smith" to $330, and the vessels were released on 30th July. His Majesty's Government, as at present advised, are not aware of any sufficient ground for claiming compensation in the cases of the "General" and the "Emma Smith," which there is reason to suppose were both seized in territorial waters within the three-mile limit. In the case of the "Georgie," any further evidence in support of a claim for compensation will receive their careful consideration. They have no information to show that captains of Bahamian turtling vessels have ceased to continue their industry.
EARL OF RONALDSHAY (Middlesex, Hornsey)I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if an order was recently given by the captain of the Cuban revenue cutter "Aileen" that the British flag flying on the British turtling schooner "Emma Smith" should be taken down; and if he can say on what grounds such an order was given.
§ SIR EDWARD GREYThere is nothing in the Reports received from His Majesty's Minister at Havana, nor in the depositions of the master and mate of the "Emma Smith," to corroborate the statement that the schooner was called upon by the Cuban revenue cutter "Aileen" to haul down the British flag.
EARL OF RONALDSHAYI beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what was the nature of the investigation recently carried out by the Cuban authorities, with a view to determining the guilt, or otherwise, of the masters of certain British turtling schooners alleged to have been illegally turtling in Cuban waters; and can he say whether the accused masters were given an opportunity of denying upon 976 oath the truth of the charges brought against them.
§ SIR EDWARD GREYThe investigation in question was instituted by the Cuban Department of Finance. At this investigation the masters of the vessels were afforded the opportunity of making their depositions as to the facts, but whether such depositions were taken on oath there is no evidence at present before His Majesty's Government to show. At the instance of His Majesty's Minister at Havana, a further inquiry was undertaken by the Cuban State Department. His Majesty's Minister was satisfied that the schooners were within territorial waters, but a part of the fines was remitted as a result of his representations.
EARL OF RONALDSHAYWas not that portion of the fine which was remitted that which the schooner was not liable to pay as she was taken into harbour under force majeure?
§ SIR EDWARD GREYThat may have been so, but the evidence went to show that the vessels were actually fishing in territorial waters, and, of course, under those circumstances we could not put forward any claim.
EARL OF RONALDSHAYI beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if a sailor on board the British schooner "Empress," engaged in the Bahama turtling business, was recently shot by an officer on board a Cuban revenue cutter; and, if so, what was the reason for such action on the part of the said officer, and what steps are His Majesty's Government taking to safeguard the lives of British subjects in these waters.
§ SIR EDWARD GREYIt is true that Charles Bethel, the cook of the schooner "Empress," was wounded by a shot from a Cuban official of the revenue cutter "Baire." According to the Cuban official account, this was the result of an accident, but the crew of the "Empress" maintain that the shot fired was intentional. The discrepancy between these statements has been brought to the notice of the Cuban 977 Government by His Majesty's Minister, who has pressed for compensation for the sufferer. His Majesty's Government are always ready, as I have before stated, to take the necessary steps for the protection of British interests, but no special measures beyond the demand for compensation seem called for at present, till we know what reply we receive.