HC Deb 18 May 1908 vol 188 cc1643-5
MR. ASHLEY

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether, having regard to the fact that the effective strength of the Royal Field Artillery has been reduced during the past four months by 1,076, and is now 570 below the number provided for in the Estimates, he will say what steps he proposes to take beyond the training of 934 Special Reservists with the training brigades to carry out the pledge he gave on 4th March in this House, that the strength of the Royal Field Artillery should not be reduced till for every man so reduced four or five trained Militiamen were ready to take his place.

MR. HALDANE

The hon. Member has committed the error of comparing strength with establishment.

MR. ASHLEY

No, no.

MR. HALDANE

Yes, yes! Moreover he has probably been misled by the fact that there has been, as there generally and normally is in the beginning of every year, a large outflow to the Reserve. The vacancies caused in the strength with the colours will be filled up again by the ordinary process of recruiting.

MR. ASHLEY

Does the right hon. Gentleman deny that the strength of the Field Artillery on 1st May was 570 below the establishment, whereas it was 400 and something above the establishment on 1st January?

MR. HALDANE

The strength always oscillates. You cannot take it at a particular moment and say that that is the strength compared with the establishment. A month later it may be far different.

MR. ARNOLD-FORSTER

Is it not a plain matter of fact that, according o the figures given by the right hon. Gentleman, the Field Artillery has been reduced?

MR. HALDANE

For the moment it may be, but at other moments it is above. The point of these questions is to make out that we have reduced the Field Artillery. It is absolutely untrue that we have done anything of the kind. The Field Artillery is higher in numbers than at the time the right hon. Gentleman was in office.

MR. ARNOLD-FORSTER

The right hon. Gentleman says my hon. friend is mistaken. My object is to point out that my hon. friend is not mistaken. I should like to know in what respect my hon. friend was mistaken when he stated a plain matter of fact.

MR. HALDANE

That means there are two people mistaken now.

MR. ASHLEY

Does the right hon. Gentleman deny that the Field Artillery are 1,076 men less in strength than on 1st January last?

MR. HALDANE

At particular moments of the year the strength is below, and at other times of the year above the establishment. It is a misleading Question, and depends on a confusion of thought between strength and establishment.