HC Deb 12 May 1908 vol 188 cc940-2
MR. O'SHAUGHNESSY (Limerick, W.)

On behalf of the hon. Member for the College Green division of Dublin I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury if he is aware that the unskilled labourers in the Army Ordnance Department at Island Bridge, Dublin, which is situate beside the wall of the Phœnix Park, are in receipt of 20s. a week wages; can he say with what class the comparison has been made as regards the wages of the Board of Works labourers in the Phœnix Park of 15s. or 16s. a week; and whether, in view of the amount required for the subsistence of a labourer in the city of Dublin, where the cost of living is only 6 per cent. below London according to the Board of Trade Report recently presented to Parliament, he will now have the case of the park labourers considered with a view to increase their pay.

MR. HOBHOUSE

My right hon. friend the Secretary of State for War informs me that the Answer to the first part of the Qestion is in the affirmative. I am informed by the Board of Works that the staff of labourers employed by them in the Phœnix Park consists partly of men engaged on garden and forestry work, who compare, as regards wages, with men engaged on similar duties in private gardens in the neighbourhood of Dublin. The remainder are ordinary labourers employed throughout the park on work of a general kind, and in their case comparison has been made with agricultural labourers in districts adjoining the park. In both cases the careful inquiry which I have caused to be made shows that the wages paid by the Board of Works, when allowance is made for the special privileges enjoyed by labourers in the Board's service, compare favourably with the rates current in the district.

MR. O'SHAUGHNESSY

Having regard to the higher cost of living in Dublin, will the hon. Gentleman consider the desirability of increasing the pay to 20s. a week?

MR. HOBHOUSE

I quite agree that the rate appears low, but I do not think the Treasury can pay more than the rate current in the district.

MR. O'SHAUGHNESSY

Should it not pay as much as the Army Ordnance Department for similar labour?

MR. HOBHOUSE

They are different classes of work, and therefore we pay different rates of wages.

MR. O'SHAUGHNESSY

But if both sets of labourers live in the city is not the cost of living the same in each case?

MR. HOBHOUSE

I do not know what the rates of pay are outside Government Departments, but I believe they are not as high as those paid by the Government.

MR. O'SHAUGHNESSY

Can the hon. Gentleman hold out no hope that these workers will have their wages increased? Will he again consider the matter fully?

MR. HOBHOUSE

Very careful inquiry has been made. These are the rates current in the district, and we cannot go beyond that.

MR. CROOKS (Woolwich)

Will the hon. Gentleman hear an appeal from the Dublin Trade Union?

MR. HOBHOUSE

Certainly.

MR. T. F. RICHARDS (Wolverhampton, W.)

Is it not better that the Government should set a good example rather than take advantage of a bad one and pay just what other people in the district like to pay?

MR. HOBHOUSE

The Treasury represent the general community, and I do not think it would be right in going beyond the rate of wages current in the district. These men have special privileges in the form of continuous employment, sick pay, public holidays, gratuities on retirement, all in excess of the rates current for similar labour in the district.

MR. T. F. RICHARDS

But in cases of this kind many co-operative societies set a good example. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of that? Surely the Government should not lag behind them?

MR. O'SHAUGHNESSY

Do the Treasury really consider that 15s. is a fair wage for a man who has to support a wife and family in the city of Dublin?

MR. HOBHOUSE

The wage, I believe, is 16s., and that is the rate paid by private employers.

MR. JOYCE (Limerick)

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that elected public bodies in Dublin pay a far higher rate of wages? Why should not the Treasury bring their rate up to the same standard as that paid by these public bodies?

MR. HOBHOUSE

I am not aware that these public bodies do pay a higher rate than the Treasury.

MR. JOYCE

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will inquire.