HC Deb 15 July 1908 vol 192 cc840-2
MR. MACKARNESS (Berkshire, Newbury)

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Secretary of State is in possession of any information enabling him to fix the probable date of the termination of the preliminary examination of Dinizulu, or whether any definite charge has yet been formulated against that chief.

THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (Colonel SEELY,) Liverpool, Abercromby

No, Sir, I regret that up to the present it has not been possible to fix a definite date. If the prisoner is committed for trial the indictment will, of course, formulate definite charges.

MR. MACKARNESS

Is it not the fact that this preliminary examination has been going on for upwards of seven months, and that 100 witnesses have been examined on behalf of the prosecution?

COLONEL SEELY

Yes, the examination has been going on for a long time, and a great number of witnesses have been examined; but at present it is not possible to say when this prolonged examination will be concluded.

MR. FLYNN (Cork, N.)

Have any witnesses for this man's defence been examined?

COLONEL SEELY

As soon as the case for the prosecution it? concluded witnesses for the defence will be called.

MR. VERNEY (Buckinghamshire, N.)

Have any definite charges been formulated?

COLONEL SEELY

A great many charges have been brought, but definite charges have not been and will not be formulated until he is committed for trial, which is uncertain.

MR. RAMSAY MACDONALD (Leicester)

Has this preliminary investigation to decide as to this man's guilt or innocence?

COLONEL SEELY

At present it is uncertain whether he is guilty or innocent; this is a preliminary investigation into various charges.

MR. RAMSAY MACDONALD

But the hon. Gentleman said witnesses would be called for the defence.

COLONEL SEELY

Yes, after those for the prosecution.

MR. FLYNN

Is there any precedent in Colonial affairs for a preliminary examination lasting over seven months?

COLONEL SEELY

I cannot say definitely, but I believe this is a very exceptional case.

MR. REES

Is the gift of self-government to the Transvaal to be counterbalanced by the withdrawal of self-government from Natal?

COLONEL SEELY

No, and I do not think that question arises.

MR. MACKARNESS

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether a Bill has been introduced into the Natal Legislature for the purpose of d creating a special tribunal for the trial of Dinizulu; and, if so, with whom, under that Bill, rests the power of appointing y the Judges to form the tribunal; and n whether the law administered, and the rules of evidence applied, will be those in force in the Supreme Court of Natal.

COLONEL SEELY

The Bill has not yet been introduced and I am not, therefore, in a position to make any announcement. I hope, however, to be able to make a full statement before long.

MR. H. C. LEA (St. Pancras, E.)

Is it not the general opinion of Members of e the House that the conduct of the prosecution of Dinizulu is vindictive and tyrannical to a degree, as well as absolutely abhorrent and contrary to the whole spirit of English justice?

COLONEL SEELY

The hon. Member b has possibly more knowledge than I of the opinions of hon. Members.