HC Deb 12 February 1908 vol 184 cc44-7
MR. JOHN ROCHE (Galway, E.)

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether Lord Ashtown or his agent, Mr. Trench, made any charge against Mrs. Minnie Walsh, either of obtaining money under false pretences or of carrying on a criminal correspondence, until after the Member for the division put the Crown in motion.

I beg also to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether Lord Ashtown did inform the authorities, previous to 12th September last, that he was in correspondence with Mrs. Minnie Walsh; on which date the county inspector called upon him to explain how he had invited the police to be at Woodlawn church on the night of 31st August; and whether five persons had been invited to go to the church the same night to assist in placing a bomb under the church.

I beg further to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Crown had a letter in their possession written to a man named Larkin offering him a large sum of money if he would assist in placing a bomb under the church at Woodlawn on the night of 31st August last; and, if so, can he state why it was not produced at the late trial.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. CHERRY,) Liverpool, 45 Exchange

My right hon. friend has asked me to answer this and the two following Questions, and with the hon. Member's permission I will answer the three together. Lord Ashtown and his agent, Mr. Trench, from the beginning gave full information to the authorities of the correspondence which was taking place between Mrs. Walsh and them. They did not prefer any direct charge against her. The proceedings against her and her son were taken at my instance upon the information and documents famished by Lord Ashtown and Mr. Trench, in conjunction with those furnished by the hon. Member himself. The first information was given by Lord Ashtown in the month of June last. It is the fact that five persons were invited to assist in blowing up a church; this was done by anonymous letter as proved in evidence at the trial. The letter referred to in the third Question was handed by the hon. Member to the Chief Crown Solicitor's assistant in the police court on 13th December last. The basis of the charges then under investigation consisted of four anonymous letters in precisely similar terms. In order to put this fifth letter in evidence, it would have been necessary to postpone the hearing and have the letter submitted to an expert for examination, and it was not considered necessary to incur the additional expense and delay which would have been involved in adopting this course. No material addition would have been made to the evidence against the accused by this letter.

MR. DILLON (Mayo, E.)

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman what was the date on which Lord Ashtown first communicated to the authorities in Dublin his correspondence with Mrs. Minnie Walsh and the receipt of the anonymous letters with reference to the supposed outrage?

MR. CHEEKY

In June last.

MR. DILLON

How could he communicate to the authorities in Dublin in June the correspondence and letters which were not received until the month of August.

MR. CHERRY

They were earlier. The letters were in June.

MR. KILBRIDE (Kildare, S,)

Is it not a fact that none of these five letters written to men in Galway were written in June—that they were not written earlier than August?

MR. CHERRY

I was not referring to the anonymous letters. These letters were first brought to the attention of the Executive by the hon. Member for East Galway. What I was referring to was the letters between Lord Ashtown, Mr. Trench, and Mrs. Walsh.

MR. SWIFT MACNEILL

May I ask on what date he told about the transaction about the five letters?

MR. CHERRY

I cannot give you that.

MR. SWIFT MACNEILL

But the matter is important.

MR. CHERRY

What I have to say is that they kept in touch with the authorities from day to day, informing them as it went on.

MR. DILLON

Are we to understand then that from June last the authorities in Dublin were aware that Lord Ashtown had Mrs. Walsh in his employment seeking for information as to outrage?

MR. CHERRY

I do not think Lord Ashtown could be said to have her in his employment until he gave her £5.

MR. KILBRIDE

Is it not a fact that the anonymous letter, extracts from which Mr. Trench gave to the Inspector-General of Constabulary in Dublin, was the letter handed in to his office by Percy Walsh, the boy?

MR. CHERRY

I understand the anonymous letters were those which the hon. Member for East Galway gave to the authorities.

MR. KILBRIDE

Is it not a fact that the boy, Percy Walsh, who was acquitted at the trial, handed in to Trench's office an anonymous letter and that it was extracts from that letter that Trench gave to the Inspector-General of Constabulary in Dublin, and that put them in motion, and that that was not done until late in August or in the early part of September?

*MR. SPEAKER

I think the hon. Member should give notice of these details. The Attorney - General cannot be expected to carry them all in his recollection.

MR. CHARLES CRAIG

As it is desirable that this should be cleared up, I wish to ask what it is the right hon. Gentleman means by a direct charge; he said that Lord Ashtown made no direct charge against her; may I ask did he at any time make any charge against her?

MR. CHERRY

What I meant to say was that Lord Ashtown—[NATIONALIST cries of "Answer the Question "]—what I meant to say was that Lord Ashtown merely furnished information as to the facts, stating the letters received and what they were doing in these matters. They left it to us to say whether we would take proceedings or not, and I decided upon my own authority that proceedings should be taken.

MR. JOHN ROCHE

Will the right hon. Gentleman answer the first part of my Question, namely, whether Lord Ashtown or his agent, Mr. Trench, has made any charge against Mrs. Minnie Walsh either of obtaining money under false pretences or of carrying on a criminal correspondence until after the Monday when the Member for the division set the Crown in motion.

MR. CHERRY

I think I have already answered that Question. [NATIONALIST cries of "No."] Lord Ashtown merely stated the facts—it was I who formulated the charge.

MR. JOHN ROCHE

When?

MR. CHERRY

When the prosecution commenced in the police court.