CLASS V. (Hansard, 11 February 1908)

§ LORD BALCARRES (Lancashire, Chorley)
said he wished to ask for a assurance from the right hon. Gentleman on two or three points in his speech the day before, which he reserved for future consideration. He could not expect a precise reply, but in view of the fact that in five or six weeks time the new Territorial Army would come into existence, it was desirable that the right hon. Gentleman should at the earliest possible moment explain to the House what the decision of the Government was. The night before the right hon. Gentleman on three or four occasions stated that the Government's mind was not made up on certain very important aspects of the question, but it was difficult to reconcile that statement with the facts of the case, after a perusal of instructions which had already been issued to the County Associations. 1610 His right hon. friend the Member for Derbyshire had given a specific example of what was going on throughout the country. The County Association of Derbyshire would be responsible for 3,000 or 4,000 men, but was limited for the expenses of its secretariat to £184 per annum. The secretary of that County Association would have a very onerous duty placed upon his shoulders. The district was a large and scattered one, many parishes were very inaccessible, and the secretariat must involve the employment of some clerk or shorthand writer to carry out the Departmental work. The right hon. Gentleman and the War Office Committee had, however, directed from the War Office that this inadequate sum only should be allowed for this work. It was ridiculous for the War Office to expect that the associations could get good men to serve as secretaries unless they paid a decent salary. What was happening now? There were County Associations in England which had already received the names of possible candidates for the secretarial position. He knew one particular county where a large number of retired officers applied for the post. The County Association reduced the number to six, and of these six gentlemen, no less than five declined to undertake the charge for which they originally applied when they discovered that the salary was of so insignificant a character. He might take another example, that of Lancashire, with which he was connected. Lancashire was too large to be managed by one association, and was accordingly divided into Western and Eastern Associtions. The Western Association, which had its headquarters at Liverpool, was informed that all they could be allowed for the office was the sum of £50.

§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. HALDANE,) Haddington
You are quite mistaken.

§ LORD BALCARRES
said that although the right hon. Gentleman said he was quite mistaken, the County Association understood that it was the direction of the War Office that not more than £50 should be annually spent for office accommodation.

§ MR. HALDANE
On what grounds do they understand it?

§ LORD BALCARRES
replied that it was on grounds similar to that which made the County Association of Derbyshire understand that they were limited to £184 for their secretariat. If there was any doubt about the matter, surely it was imperative in the interests of this model army that the right hon. Gentleman should set at rest the doubts which had been caused by the vagueness and indecision of the War Office. That was the difficulty, and it was no use saying that those doubts had arisen through misapprehension, and so on. It was for the right hon. Gentleman and his Army Committee to remove those doubts, by giving precise and specific information. The absence of such information, he considered, was one of the things which was militating enormously against the County Associations. The doubt and the hesitation which existed in people's minds were to be found in the minds of the recruits—the potential or actual members of the Territorial Force—because they did not know what the conditions were under which they were going to be. As he had said, they were within four or five weeks of the actual inception of this great scheme, and yet these doubts existed. The right hon. Gentleman had obligingly undertaken to issue new regulations in pamphlet form in order that it might be made clear what was the actual responsibility which would rest upon these new associations and upon the men in them, and no doubt such information was needed. This particular Vote for £8,000 no doubt only represented a very small fraction of what would be required, but he wished the Government could see its way to expedite the really important information which was needed. In regard to the financial question as to whether the money might not have been better devoted to the extinction of National Debt he would not enter into it, as the Conservative Party were financial heretics, and did not lay claim to the financial purity of hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite. Therefore, it was for the latter to criticise the action of the Government; but there was a matter which was infinitely more 1612 important—a hundredfold more important—than that, and it was that the Government should make up its mind as to the policy it was going to adopt about these finances. The right hon. Gentleman said that latitude was going to be allowed, but he rather doubted whether it was necessary to allow latitude in the particular case. It was not fair to a County Association, that of Derbyshire for instance, to say: "We will recommend a sum of £180 odd yearly, for your secretary, and then if you like to save money upon other items of your £1,800 you can add that to it." That had been done in one or two cases already, and secretaries had been appointed on the terms of the payment of nominal sums and the County Associations were going to save on all their other administrative Votes; they had told their secretary so, and at the end of the financial year they were going to pay to him as much money as they found remaining to their credit. That was not in his opinion right.
And, it being a quarter past Eight of the Clock, Further Proceeding was postponed without Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 4.