§ MR. HAVELOCK WILSON (Middlesbrough)I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he can state if the Board of Trade surveyor who recently investigated the manning of the steamer "Maritta" at Cardiff was an engineer surveyor or a shipwright surveyor; what practical sea experience the surveyor in question had; whether he reported to the Board of Trade that the six unqualified men engaged were not British seamen but Chinamen; if he is aware that by the usual practice where Chinamen or lascars are employed as seamen double the number of men are engaged; what evidence was submitted to the surveyor to prove that these Chinamen had three years sea service; whether, in giving the orders to test the efficiency of these men, such orders were given in the Chinese language; and whether the President of the Board of Trade is aware that the Chinamen wore unable to speak English.
§ MR. LLOYD-GEORGEThe surveyor who investigated the manning of the "Maritta" was a ship surveyor with over twenty-one years service from apprentice to master, of which period about three years were in command. He reported to the Board that the six seamen were Chinamen. No evidence was required as to their having had three years sea service as they were not shipped as "A. B's" but as "seamen." The surveyor states that he gave them several orders in English which they clearly understood, and that although they could not speak English fluently they evidently knew sufficient to make themselves understood. I have no precise information as to the general practice with regard to the proportion of Chinamen and lascars to Europeans when shipped as seamen, but I am advised that in most cases the 893 same number of Chinamon are carried as European seamen.
§ MR. HAVELOCK WILSONArising out of that Answer, may I ask if the right hon. Gentleman's attention has been called to the Manning Committee's Report, in which they say, in the 99th paragraph, "After full consideration of the evidence laid before us, and after regarding that subject from various points of view, we have come to the conclusion that no British steamer of or above 700 tons gross measurement ought to be allowed to proceed to sea from a British port without at least six deck hands—that is, six in addition to the master, and at least two mates—and of those six deck hands at least four should be able seamen." I would like to ask whether the attention of the right hon. Gentleman has been called to that paragraph, and whether, seeing the whole of these Chinamen were ordinary seamen, he thinks this vessel was properly manned under the circumstances.
§ MR. LLOYD-GEORGEOf course the Board of Trade considered all that when they decided whether the vessel was properly manned or not. I cannot go beyond the powers with which I am equipped by the Act of 1897. As far as that Act is concerned this ship was undoubtedly properly manned within the provisions of the Act of Parliament.
§ MR. HAVELOCK WILSONMay I remind the right hon. Gentleman that at the Colonial Conference ho said the Board of Trade had power to detain such ships as were not efficiently manned?
§ MR. LLOYD-GEORGECertainly. I adhere to that opinion, but I cannot go beyond the powers which I have got under this Act of Parliament. I adhere to what I said, but under these powers this ship was properly manned.
§ MR. LEAMay I ask whether in view of the agitation which the Liberal Party has conducted against the employment of Chinese in South Africa, and in order to maintain consistency, the right hon. Gentleman will do all in his power to prohibit the employment of Chinese on ships, especially in view of the fact that many of the ships on which Chinese are employed are owned 894 by Members of this House. [Cries of "Radicals,"] And Tories too.
§ MR. LLOYD-GEORGEThe hon. Member knows perfectly well I have no power to prohibit the employment of any alien sailors. Last year certain provisions were incorporated in the Bill which I piloted through the House, which imposed very considerable restrictions upon the employment of aliens, and I am enforcing those restrictions now.
§ MR. LUPTON (Lincolnshire, Sleaford)May I ask whether it is not a fact that no Party in this House has ever expressed any opinion against the Chinese or against Chinese slavery?
§ [No Answer was returned.]