§ MR. MOONEY (Newry)I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he can now state how many firms, and give their names, other 1597 than Messrs. Kynoch were found to be using a percentage of mercury in the manufacture of explosives; if he can state on what date these manufacturers ceased to manufacture these explosives; if he can state the number of pounds, if any, of such explosive these manufacturers had in their possession on such date; if he can state whether, in the public interest or in the interest of public safety, he has seized these explosives, or, if not, has he allowed them to go into use in the ordinary way.
§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. GLADSTONE, Leeds, W.)One other firm—the National Explosives Company, not Messrs. Eley, as I was erroneously reported to have said the other day—is known to have used mercuric chloride in their explosives. I believe they ceased to do so towards the end of last year. I have no knowledge of the quantity of explosive which was then in their possession. At the present time a large quantity of explosive containing mercury, belonging to this firm, is under seizure.
§ MR. MOONEYI beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if the magazine at Cardiff belonging to Messrs. Kynoch, licensed for 30,0001bs. of explosives, held 23,000lbs. when seized; if of this 23,0001bs. only very little contains the ingredient complained of; whether under the terms of the seizure the magazine is and has been since the date of the seizure devoted to the use of the Secretary of State, and cannot be utilised by Messrs. Kynoch for storage purposes; and whether, in view of the dislocation of trade caused by the Home Office action, he can see his way to allow the explosives in this magazine, other than the particular explosives complained of, to be put into use in the ordinary way.
§ MR. GLADSTONE23,000lbs. of explosive were seized in the magazine mentioned. Mercuric chloride was found by His Majesty's Inspectors in several samples taken from this magazine, but they are unable to say in what proportion of the whole the ingredient is present, as necessarily only samples were examined. Messrs. Kynoch are not prohibited from using the magazine up to the limit of quantity allowed by the licence; and 1598 there remains therefore a surplus of licensed capacity at their disposal. The inconvenience, if any, to Messrs. Kynoch's trade is not due to the action of my Department, inasmuch as the case in connection with this magazine would have been disposed of several months ago but for the postponements which Messrs. Kynoch have themselves obtained. In these circumstances, the whole of the explosive must, I fear, remain under seizure until the matter is settled.
§ MR. MOONEYasked the right hon. Gentleman whether he would consider the advisability either of taking Messrs. Kynoch's assurances as regarded the explosives which were in this magazine or of having the matter tested so that the explosive which did not contain the unauthorised ingredient could be used.
§ MR. GLADSTONEI do not know what Messrs. Kynoch's assurances are.
§ MR. MOONEYHas the right hon. Gentleman not read the letter forwarded to his Department as far back as 13th May by Messrs. Kynoch's solicitors?
§ MR. GLADSTONEThe correspondence is becoming voluminous, but I do not quite see how Messrs. Kynoch's assurances that this explosive, or part of it, may be safe bears on the point of the action taken by my Department, which is that samples taken from this particular magazine showed that a large part of the explosive in the magazine contained mercury, and, in my judgment, it is clearly impossible to allow that explosive to be taken from that magazine.
§ SIR E. CARSON (Dublin University)asked the right hon. Gentleman whether he could say when this matter would be settled one way or the other.
§ MR. GLADSTONEI should be very glad to settle it at once, but Messrs. Kynoch have resorted to the law, and I am not in a position to settle it.
§ MR. MOONEYasked whether it was not a fact that, in the letter to which he had referred, Messrs. Kynoch stated that there was a certain amount of the explosive in this magazine containing the ingredient which the Home Office complained of, but that there was also in the 1599 magazine a very large amount of explosive which, they assured the Home Office, had not been treated in the same way, and whether they asked the Home Office to allow them to use that portion and not to lock up the explosive which was manufactured in accordance with the licence of the Home Office.
§ MR. GLADSTONEI think the hon. Member is correct, but the whole case is still under the consideration of the Court, and by the judgment of the Court, as far as it has gone, all this cordite is liable to seizure. The question cannot be determined until the legal proceedings are concluded.
§ MR. MOONEYIs it not the fact that the whole case before the Court at the present time is whether or not Messrs. Kynoch used in the manufacture of certain cordite an unauthorised ingredient; and what I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman is whether, while the appeal of Messrs. Kynoch as regards the unauthorised cordite is pending, they are to be made to suffer by having the cordite which does not contain any unauthorised ingredient also seized by the Home Office?
§ MR. GLADSTONEI do not think the hon. Member has stated the case quite accurately. Messrs. Kynoch admit, as I understand, that there was a certain amount of mercuric chloride in this explosive. Their point now is that the amount of mercury is so small as to be innocuous. Our contention is that any mercury put into this explosive is against the law and renders the explosive dangerous.
§ MR. MOORE (Armagh, N.)asked whether the 23,000lbs. which the Government were now impounding was safe while it was there.
§ MR. GLADSTONEAs the hon. Member is aware, magazines are only authorised under certain conditions, and, though it is not very pleasant to have an explosion in a magazine, if it does occur it is reasonably safe, and the prescribed distance practically secures safety to life and limb.
§ MR. JOHN REDMOND (Waterford)asked whether, in view of the fact that 1600 the complaint only referred to a certain portion of the explosive in this magazine, the Home Office had authority to remove that portion of the explosive, and thereby free the magazines for the general business of the company.
§ MR. GLADSTONEsaid he could not add anything to the Answer he had given to the supplementary Question of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Dublin University.