HC Deb 05 August 1907 vol 179 cc1539-42
LORD R. CECIL (Marylebone, E.)

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Education whether he can state the substance of any communication that he has sent to the Merioneth local education authority on the subject of the date of payment of the salaries of teachers; whether he has received any reply; and, if so, what is the substance of such reply.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF EDUCATION (Mr. MCKENNA, Monmouthshire, N.)

The substance of my communication to the local education authority consisted of a request to them to pay the salaries of the teachers in the voluntary schools as soon as possible. I have not as yet received a reply, and I do not suppose the authority have had time to convene a meeting to consider my letter.

LORD EDMUND TALBOT (Sussex, Chichester)

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman had also communicated with the West Riding education authority in regard to the Low Valley School.

MR. MCKENNA

said he had communicated with the West Riding education authority, and he hoped the question would be ended satisfactorily.

LORD R. CECIL

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the local education authority for Merioneth is not assembled at the present moment?

MR. MCKENNA

I was not aware of that fact, but I have no doubt a special meeting will be called.

SIR WILLIAM ANSON (Oxford University)

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Education whether he is exercising, or proposes to exercise, his powers under The Defaulting Authorities Act, 1904, to secure that the teachers in the voluntary schools of Merioneth are not deprived of the enjoyment of their holidays by the withholding of the salaries which they have earned until the expiration of the holidays, or whether the council of Merioneth can offer any explanation of the distinction which they make in time of payment between the teachers in council and in voluntary schools.

MR. MCKENNA

So far as I am aware no question of the exercise of my powers under the Education (Local Authority Default) Act, 1904, can be considered, as the conditions precedent for the exercise of such powers do not appear to have been satisfied.

SIR WILLIAM ANSON

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is the duty of the local education authority to maintain the schools within its area and to maintain all schools alike, and that if the local authority declines to do this, either by making direct payments or otherwise, with regard to one class of teachers, that creates a case of hardship which the Defaulting Authorities Act was passed to avoid?

MR. MCKENNA

The Defaulting Authorities Act requires as a condition of being enforced that the managers should have paid the salaries themselves, and should have appeared to have paid those salaries to keep the schools efficient. In the present case the managers have not paid the salaries, and therefore, there is no ground on which the Defaulting Authorities Act can be enforced.

SIR WILLIAM ANSON

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that by informing the local authority of the intentions of the Board when the right thing is not being done he may get the right thing done more promptly than if he waits for the action of the managers in paying out of their own pockets money which ought to be provided by the local authorities?

MR. MCKENNA

I am not sure that I apprehend the course the hon. Gentleman wishes me to take.

SIR WILLIAM ANSON

I should like the right hon. Gentleman to communicate with the local authority to say that, if they were not treating this class of teachers fairly, the Defaulting Authorities Act would be put into operation.

MR. MCKENNA

I could make no such communication to the local authority. It would be contrary to the law if I were to attempt to put the Act into force when the necessary conditions have not arisen.

LORD E. CECIL

Will the right hon. Gentleman say that if the managers do pay the salaries he will repay them the cost to which they have been put? Has it not been the usual practice of the Education Department in reference to this Act?

MR. McKENNA

The Answer is no to both Questions.

LORD E. CECIL

Is the right hon. Gentleman not prepared to put in force the Defaulting Authorities Act under any circumstances?

MR. McKENNA

I shall be prepared to state what I will do when the necessary conditions have arisen.

SIR WILLIAM ANSON

Will the right hon. Gentleman communicate with the managers as well as the local authority to ascertain whether this case of hardship has arisen?

MR. McKENNA

I understand hardship has not arisen. I am informed the salaries have been paid by another party.

LORD R. CECIL

Does the right hon. Gentleman refer to the National Union of Teachers? If so, does payment by thorn apply to anybody except those teachers who are members of that society?

MR. McKENNA

I am informed the teachers have been paid.

LORD R. CECIL

By whom?

MR. McKENNA

By the National Union of Teachers.