§ Considered in Committee.
§ (In the Committee.)
§ Clause 1:—
§ [Mr. EMMOTT (Oldham), in the Chair.]
§ Another Amendment proposed—
§
In page 1, line 28, after the words last inserted, to insert the words, 'In the event of the person's name being removed from the register the clerk shall give him notice that his name has been removed.'"—(Mr. Samuel Roberts.)
§ Question again proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR (City of London)said that there was one point which it occurred to him might very well arise, viz., that some gentleman who had not taken the trouble to make his selection before 5th September, might make up his mind that under the Bill he could exercise his vote for the next year. When the revision came, however, he would be struck off and would find that he was not qualified to vote. He thought that under such circumstances a man should have a chance of recording that vote.
§ THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (Mr. HARCOURT,) Lancashire, Rossendalethought the right hon. Gentleman would observe that a man's 901 name might be struck off the register in the Revision Court, but this could only be done after the delivery of the objection to the voter, so that he was in no danger of losing his vote, neither was he in danger of being struck off.
§ *MR. CARLILE (Hertfordshire, St. Albans)said that when the Committee rose the previous night he was endeavouring to point out the essential character of the words contained in the Amendment and the importance of their being embodied in the present Bill. In the absence of these words a voter who was qualified in three constituencies, if an objection taken to his name in one constituency was sustained — unless he was advised of the fact of his removal—would very properly take no action with regard to the other constituencies for which he was qualified; whereas if he received a notice of the removal of his name in one constituency he would have an opportunity, according to an undertaking given by the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill, of selecting one of the other constituencies in which his name appeared on the register. In the event of his getting no notice, however, this would practically mean disfranchisement. Such a condition of things seemed most unjust. Many felt that voters under the Bill were receiving very harsh treatment, and his hon. friend's Amendment was framed for the alleviation of that harshness. If it were possible for a man to be many years on the register without his knowing it, it was far more likely that he might be struck off the register and yet not be told. No notice was now given to the ordinary voter, which was rather a source of grief to him, and was often very hard upon him. He had known cases where a voter, unaware of the fact that his name had been struck off the register, had devoted part of a day, and travelled a considerable distance in order to record his vote, only to find, however, when he reached the polling booth, that he could not exercise the right for which he was duly qualified, because, owing to some slight misunderstanding, his name had been removed from the register. If notice were sent to a voter who had three qualifications that his name had been removed from one; of the registers he would be able to select again and so exercise his important civil 902 right. An ordinary voter, as the Bill stood, was allowed to act in a perfectly free manner, but the poor plural voter had received a very short shrift and very little consideration from the right hon. Gentleman and hon. Members opposite. It was nothing more nor less than an attempt to filch votes from those who were best qualified to exercise them. A man might be passed over for one year by the agent of the opposition, no question being raised. Thus he would be lulled into a position of security. The following year, however, he would be struck off the register. He would have no idea that such an attempt upon his vote would be made, and consequently would fail to take the necessary steps to protect himself. Surely a man was entitled to the small consideration proposed by the Amendment if, for any cause, his name should be removed from the register. There was also another class of voters—those who wanted to put themselves into a safe position. They knew that certain penalties hung over the heads of the unconscious and the unwary, and they were desirous of making themselves immune. Such a voter, therefore, would write to one of the constituencies, asking the clerk to remove his name; he would also write to the other constituency in which he was qualified, informing them that he was no longer a plural voter. No star would be put against his name. The notice apparently would be duly received by the clerk in the first constituency. The notice would be filed, or pigeon-holed, or in some cases overlooked altogether, and the man's name retained upon the register. The man, thinking he had ceased to be a plural voter, would go down in all confidence for his ballot paper, he would vote, and then afterwards find that people were on his trail, and that a charge of personation was hanging over his head — a charge with which was associated the penalty of two years hard labour, without the option of a fine, to be afterwards followed by seven years deprivation of all civil rights. The man, of course, would immediately succumb and would not survive to take even a quarter of the term of imprisonment hanging over his head. If, however, notice was sent, as the Amendment desired, a man could not be in ignorance of the fact that his name had been removed or that his instructions as to his well-being and comfort had failed to be carried out.
903 The great desire of the hon. Member and his supporters was to secure some measure of consideration which at present was entirely absent from the Bill.
§ MR. ROWLANDS (Kent, Dartford)said that what had struck him throughout the whole of the debate was the way in which hon. Members ignored that annual performance known as the registration Court. They had heard a great deal about the plural voter being taken off the register without his knowledge, but if any hon. Member on the other side would look at the registration laws they would see that a vote to which objection was taken could not be removed from the register without notice being served upon the person concerned. If a voter's name was removed otherwise than because somebody declared that he was not duly qualified, the overseers must be deliberately neglecting their duty, and no Amendment of this Bill would meet
§ that case, which belonged to another department of the law.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD (Liverpool, West Derby)said that the overseers prepared the list, and if a man was qualified they were bound to put him on. The purpose of the Amendment was as to giving notice where a man's name had been left off. If a man had been on the register for the previous year, and his name had been removed for the ensuing year he should have some, notice of the fact. It was entirely wrong to suppose that a man's name could not be removed from the register without his knowledge. Such removal was unfair, and it was against it that the Amend was directed.
§ Question put.
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 80; Noes, 301. (Division List No. 343.)
907| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F | Duncan, Robert (Lanark,G'v'n | Neil, Herbert |
| Anstruther-Gray, Major | Fell, Arthur | Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) |
| Ashley, W. W. | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Balcarres, Lord | Forster, Henry William | Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington |
| Balfour, Rt Hn. A. J. (City Lond. | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Percy, Earl |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Gordon, Sir W. Evans-(T'r N'm | Randles, Sir John Scurrah |
| Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester) | Hamilton, Marquess of | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
| Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Heaton, John Henniker | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hills, J. W. | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, E.) |
| Bull, Sir William James | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Butcher, Samuel Henry | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh. |
| Castlereagh Viscount | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W. | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E. | Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich) | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark) |
| Chamberlain. Rt. Hn. J A. (Wor | Liddell, Henry | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt. Col. A. R. | Valentia, Viscount |
| Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm'gh'm | Long, Col. Charles W.(Evesham | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S. | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid |
| Courthope, G. Loyd | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart |
| Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S. | Magnus, Sir Philip | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Craig, Captain James (Down, E | Marks, H. H, (Kent) | Younger, George |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Meysey-Thompson E. C. | |
| Dalrymple Viscount | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Samuel Roberts and Mr. Carlile. |
| Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred. Dixon | Morpeth, Viscount | |
| Doughty, Sir George | Muntz, Sir Philip A. | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) | Barlow, John Emmott (S'm'set | Benn, W.(T'w'r' H'ml'ts,S. Geo |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Bertram, Julius |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Barnard, E. B. | Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford) |
| Alden, Percy | Barran, Rowland Hirst | Billson, Alfred |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Beale, W. P. | Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine |
| Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry | Beaumont, Hn. W. C. B. (Hex'm | Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Beck, A. Cecil | Boland, John |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Bellairs, Carlyon | Boulton, A. C. F. (Remsey) |
| Barker, John | Belloc, Hilare Joseph Peter R. | Brace William |
| Bramsdon, T. A. | Glover, Thomas | Marnham, F. J. |
| Brigg, John | Goddard, Daniel Ford | Massie, J. |
| Bright, J. A. | Grant, Corrie | Meagher, Michael |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | Menzies, Walter |
| Brooke, Stopford | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | Micklem, Nathaniel |
| Brunner, J. F. L.(Lancs., Leigh) | Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill | Molteno, Percy Alport |
| Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J.T.(Chesh. | Gulland, John W. | Money, L. G Chiozza |
| Brvce, Rt. Hn. James(Aberdeen | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | Montagu, E S. |
| Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs) | Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Mooney, J. J. |
| Buchanan, Thomas Rbyurn | Hall, Frederick | Morley, Rt. Hon. John |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis | Morse, L. L. |
| Burnyeat, W. J D. | Hardie, J. Keir Merthyr Tydvil) | Murnaghan, George |
| Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles | Hart-Davies, T. | Murphy, John |
| Byles, William Pollard | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Murray, James |
| Cairns, Thomas | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Myer, Horatio |
| Cameron, Robert | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Napier, T. B. |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Nicholls, George |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Hedges, A. Paget | Nicholson, Charles N. (Donc'r |
| Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight | Helme, Norval Watson | Nolan, Joseph |
| Cawley, Frederick | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Norman, Henry |
| Chance, Frederick William | Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.) | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Higham, John Sharp | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
| Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. | Hobart, Sir Robert | Nuttall, Henry |
| Churchill, Wisnton Spencer | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | O'Brien, Kendal(Tipper'y Mid.) |
| Clarke, C. Goddard | Hogan, Michael | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Clough, W. | Holden, E. Hopkinson | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. |
| Clynes, J. R. | Hooper, A. G. | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | O'Doherty, Philip |
| Cobbold, Felix Thornley | Hudson, Walter | O'Grady, J. |
| Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W. | Hutton, Alfred Eddison | O'Kelly, James(Roscommon, N. |
| Cooper, G. J. | Idris, T. H. W. | O'Malley, William |
| Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Gr'st'd | Illingworth, Percy H. | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Jacoby, James Alfred | Palmer, Sir Charles Mark |
| Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Jenkins, J. | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Cox, Harold | Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) | Paul, Herbert |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Jones, Sir D. Brynmor(Swansea | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) |
| Crossley, William J | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Pearce, William (Limehouse) |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Jones, William(Carnarvonshire | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Davies, M. Vaughan, (Cardigan | Jowett, F. W. | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Kearley, Hudson E. | Pollard, Dr. |
| Delany, William | Kincaid-Smith, Captain | Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central) |
| Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) | Raphael, Herbert H. |
| Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. | Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James | Redmond, John E.(Waterford) |
| Dilke, Hon. Sir Charles | Laidlaw, Robert | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Lambert, George | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Duckworth, James | Lamont, Norman | Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'th |
| Duffy, William J. | Langley, Batty | Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n) |
| Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Layland-Barratt, Francis | Richardson, A. |
| Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Loose, Sir Joseph F.(Accr'gton | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall | Lehmann, R. C. | Ridsdale, E. A. |
| Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Lever, A. Levy (Essex Harwich | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Lewis, John Herbert | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Edwards, Frank (Radnor) | Lloyd-George Rt. Hon. David | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Elibank, Master of | Lough, Thomas | Robertson. Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee |
| Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward | Lundon, W. | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Erskine, David C | Lupton, Arnold | Robinson, S. |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Lyell, Charles Henry | Robson, Sir William Snowdon |
| Everett, R. Lacey | Lynch, H. B. | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Faber, G. H. (Boston) | Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs | Rogers, F. E. Newman |
| Fenwick, Charles | Mackarness, Frederic C. | Rose, Charles Day |
| Ferens, T. R. | Maclean, Donald | Rowlands, J. |
| Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Macnamara, Dr Thomas J | Runciman, Walter |
| Field, William | Macpherson, J. T. | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) |
| Flynn, James Christopher | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. | Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland) |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.) | Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manch'st'r |
| Freeman-Thomas, Freeman | M'Crae, George | Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne |
| Fuller, John Michael F. | M'Kenna Reginald | Seely, Major J. B. |
| Fullerton, Hugh | M'Killop, W. | Shackleton, David James |
| Gardner, Col. Alan (Heref'd, S. | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B. |
| Gibb, James (Harrow) | M'Micking, Major G. | Shipman, Dr. John G. |
| Gill, A. H. | Maddison, Frederick | Sinclair, Rt. Hon John |
| Ginnell, L. | Mallet, Chares E. | Sloan, Thomas Henry |
| Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John | Manfield, Harry (Northants) | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie |
| Smyth, Thomas F.(Leitrim, S | Verney, F. W. | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Snowden, P. | Vivian, Henry | Whittaker, Sir Thomas Palmer |
| Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Wadsworth, J. | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Soares, Ernest J. | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Spicer, Sir Albert | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) | Williamson, A. |
| Stanger, H. Y. | Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S. | Wills, Arthur Walters |
| Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) | Wilson, Hon. C.H. W.(Hull, W. |
| Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.) |
| Strachey, Sir Edward | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N. |
| Stuart, James (Sunderland) | Wardle, George J. | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S. |
| Sullivan, Donal | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Summerbell, T. | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) | Wodehouse, Lord (Norfolk, Mid |
| Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) | Woodhouse, Sir J.T. (H'd'rsf'd |
| Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Watt, H. Anderson | Young, Samuel |
| Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. | Yoxall, James Henry. |
| Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) | Weir, James Galloway | |
| Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) | White, George (Norfolk) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease. |
| Tomkinson, James | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) | |
| Toulmin, George | White, Luke (York, E. R.) | |
| Trevelyan, Charles Philips | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
§ VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGH (Maidstone)said he wished to move the Amendment standing in his name—
In page 1, line 28, after the word 'withdrawn,' to insert the words 'by that person or with his authority in writing in a form to be prescribed by Order in Council made under this Act.'
§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR,on a point of order, said that he understood that the noble Lord's Amendment would have been perfectly in order if he had not added the words "or with his authority." It would be in order, he believed, if these words were deleted so that the Amendment read, "by that person in writing in the form prescribed by Order in Council under this Act."
§ VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGHsaid he would move the Amendment in the form suggested by the Leader of the Opposition.
THE CHAIRMANsaid that the noble Lord could not move the Amendment in that form now. He would suggest that the noble Lord should hand in another Amendment.
§ *MR. FELL(Great Yarmouth) moved an Amendment to provide that any technical or other mistake made by the clerk or printer might be rectified by a Judge of the High Court, on the application of the party affected. He thought that such an appeal was necessary in view of the decision come to on the previous 908 day that after the register had been "starred" the decision could not come before the revising banister or anyone who could rectify an error in the "starring." Human nature was inclined to error, and a printer or a town clerk or county council clerk, with whatever care he might take, might be guilty of making certain errors. He was only proposing that where a technical error had been committed, such as the dropping down of a "star," or the starring of another man of the same name, that technical error might be rectified in some way, on the application of the party affected, by a Judge of the High Court. If an elector took sufficient interest in his vote to take the trouble to go to the High Court to get a mistake of that kind rectified it would benefit him and put the thing straight. He hoped the Government would accept the Amendment.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 1, line 28, at end, to insert the words, 'Any technical or other mistake made by the clerk or printer may be rectified by a judge of the High Court on the application of the party affected.'"—(Mr. Fell.)
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid that this matter would be dealt with under his own clause, though possibly not in the actual words of the Amendment. He could assure the hon. Gentleman that the clause he had promised would cover the whole point.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN (Worcestershire, E.)said he understood that the right hon. Gentleman had given an undertaking that there should be a cheaper Court of Appeal than the High Court.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid that it was his wish that they should get a cheaper and an easier Court of Appeal than the High Court.
§ SIR WILLIAM BULL (Hammersmith)said that the objection might come before the revising barrister.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid that several important points in the Bill which made large alterations in the constitution of the country were being taken out of the purview of the Committee of the House of Commons.
THE CHAIRMANsaid that the hon. Member was out of order, as the subject he was discussing did not arise on the Amendment before the Committee.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid that he desired to terminate his remarks by moving that progress be reported, and that leave be asked for the Committee to sit again. He did so on the ground that at least five separate important matters were to be brought up as Amendments on the Report stage by the Minister in charge of the Bill. If they were to be content with dealing with these important matters on the Report stage, it was quite clear that the House of Commons was to be deprived of the right of dealing with them in Committee; and if that practice was to be pursued the greater part of a Bill might be withdrawn from discussion in Committee. It was only reasonable, therefore, that the proceedings of the Committee should be adjourned by reporting progress in order that the Minister in charge of the Bill should have an opportunity of bringing up his Amendments in Committee. It was with that object in view and not with the idea of wasting time that he moved to report progress.
THE CHAIRMANsaid that he had listened to what the hon. Gentleman had said, but he could not put his Motion.
§ *MR. FELLsaid that after the explanation of the right hon. Gentleman he would ask leave to withdraw his Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ MR. NIELD(Middlesex, Ealing) moved an Amendment providing that a notice should be sent to every elector on the register whose residence is not in the constituency for which he is qualified, informing him that he is registered for other than the constituency in which he resides and must make a selection. They had heard of the very serious inconvenience to which working-men were put in moving from one constituency to another in the same district by having their names on two registers involving in case of ignorance the penalty of disfranchisement. The only object he had in submitting the Amendment was to prevent this undoubted hardship and provide that at any rate the penalty should not be incurred without some intimation being given to the unwary. Notice should be given to them that they were registered electors for other than the constituency in which they resided, so as to prevent their bringing down on their heads the serious penalties provided under the Act
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 1, line 28, at end, to insert the words, 'The clerk of the county council, town clerk, or registration officer shall, on or before the fifteenth day of August in each year, send to all electors on the register of voters whose residence is not in the constituency for which he is qualified as a voter, a notice informing him that he is a registered elector for other than the constituency in which he resides, and that he must make a selection on or before the first day of September in accordance with this Act.'"— (Mr. Nield.)
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid it was really impossible to put this great labour upon the town clerks and the clerks of county councils all over the country, and he could not contemplate imposing upon them what was proposed by the hon. Member's Amendment. The Amendment was not coherent even if it was desirable. It did not follow that all 911 plural voters had two or three residences, and it was quite possible that a man, even although he resided in a constitutency, had not a vote. A man, moreover, might not have been at his residence long enough to qualify him for a vote. The scheme embodied in the Amendment was not a coherent one which could be incorporated in the Bill.
§ LORD R. CECILconsidered that this was a much more important Amendment than the right hon. Gentleman seemed to indicate. The right hon. Gentleman, had, however, justly said that it would throw a large amount of work upon the town clerks and the clerks of county councils, and he had pointed out that even this Amendment would not deal with all the difficulties which arose under the Bill. What he wanted to point out was that if these duties were not carried out by the clerks they would have to be carried out, in fact, not by the voters but by somebody else. Nobody imagined that the voters themselves would send in notices of selection, but everybody knew that it would become the duty of the registration agents of the various parties to call the attention of the voters to the provisions of this Act, and to request them to send a notice of selection and take the other means necessary to prevent their being disfranchised. Therefore this labour, which the right hon. Gentleman himself said would be tremendous if it were thrown upon the town clerks or the county council clerks, would, under the Bill, be thrown upon the agents of the various Parties. What would be the effect of that? The effect would, be enormously to increase the expense of registration. That would be one of the two things which this Bill would do. Those two things would be to disfranchise a large number of voters and enormously increase the cost of registration. [MINISTERIAL cries of "No, No."] He thought that that assertion was so indisputable that in his judgment hon. Members who expressed their dissent, did not mean it, but were simply expressing their belief in the infallibility of the Government more than anything else. No doubt the Bill was designed for the purpose 912 of striking off a large number of people from the register. The Liberal Party evidently thought that having got rid of one class of their opponents in the case of the Tory plural voter, they could by the same process get rid of another class of their opponents, viz., the Labour Members.
*THE CHAIRMANsaid he really could not see what the argument of the noble Lord had to do with the Amendment.
§ LORD R. CECILsaid he ventured, with the greatest respect, to urge that unless this Amendment were accepted the Bill would increase the cost of registration and disfranchise a large number of people. He repeated that unless this Amendment were accepted, the Government, having disposed of the Tory Party on the one hand, would dispose of the Labour Party on the other.
*THE CHAIRMANpointed out that the noble Lord was saying that the object of this Bill was to get rid of such and such people and to disfranchise them. That was not a proper argument to use on this Amendment. The Committee was not now engaged in a Second Reading discussion on the intention of the measure. The noble Lord could raise the substance of his argument in another and proper way, but he was not pursuing it properly.
§ LORD R. CECILsaid he was not aware that it was out of order to suggest what was the object of an Amendment. His argument was, however, complete, and he would not pursue the subject further.
§ *MR. NIELDsubmitted that the observation that some persons would not have had a sufficiently long residential qualification had no application whatever. The point was that when the town clerk or the clerk of the county council saw that a residential address was given which was not in the constituency he should give a notice. Everyone knew that this would not be a difficult matter, as, to take his own constituency, which numbered 20,000 voters, there were not more than 2,000 out voters. The simplest way, therefore, was to take the address of the man 913 whose name was on the register and to send him a notice.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid the argument of the right hon. Gentleman had impressed him to the effect that his hon. friend in his Amendment had not gone far enough. Having dealt with the cases which he had in his mind, a still larger number of cases would be left outside the protection of the Amendment. Let the Committee take a case mentioned the other day by the right hon. Baronet the Member for the Forest of Dean. There an examination was made of a particular register with regard to the number of labourers or workmen who had moved their homes from one constituency to another, and whose names ought to have been struck off, but had not been struck off the register for their former place of abode. If a voter had been left on by the overseers in his old place of residence he would be disqualified under this Bill. Under the Amendment he would get no notice that his name appeared upon the register of the place which he had left. If the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill had merely pointed out that the Amendment would not cover all the ground which his hon. friend desired to cover, he should have been entirely at one with, him, but the right hon. Gentleman went on to argue against even this restricted attempt to prevent voters who were qualified from being disfranchised under the provisions of the Bill. It was in his view essential before this Bill left the Committee that they should put into it some provisions to protect voters, to call attention to what their qualifications were, to give them an opportunity of seeing whether I hey had more than one vote, and to call their attention to the absolutely new duty which Parliament imposed upon them of selecting between their different qualifications before the 5th day of September, if they were to record a vote at any time during the following year. He had himself placed an Amendment upon the Paper in the form of a new clause with a view of providing that some such notice should be given. The right hon. Gentleman seemed to think that it was a sufficient answer to his hon. friend to say that any 914 such proposal would entail a great deal of work upon the town clerks, and the clerks of the county councils, but under the Bill somebody else was going to have great cause to complain of the labour entailed. He hoped he should not make an enemy of every town clerk in the country by saying that he would rather they had the trouble than the voter. If the right hon. Gentleman would make an inquiry as to the number of voters who made application for the municipal franchise he would find that it was very small indeed, and in order to get their declarations these plural voters would have to be canvassed and circularised by the agents of the different Parties unless they were to be deprived of the right to vote. There were a great number of people in this country whose politics were not known and who were not permanently attached to one political Party or the other. Who was going to look after their votes when they were not get-at-able? He ventured to say again that before the Bill left Committee it was essential that some means should be devised of giving notice to such people.
§ SIR WILLIAM BULLdid not think the right hon. Gentleman opposite really understood what the mover of the Amendment meant when he alluded to a registered voter whose residence was not in the constituency. When the revising barrister had the list before him he looked down the two columns and at once saw the description of the qualifying property in one and the place of residence in the other, and his case was that where it was obvious that there was a difference between the two places notice should be given to the voter. In Liverpool only one voter last year came up and deliberately selected the place at which he would vote. The others left it in the hands of the Party agents.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ *MR. NIELDmoved to insert the following proviso at the end of the clause:—"Provided always chat the clerk shall give public notice before the registers are finally printed that they are open for 915 inspection at his office between the hours of ten of the clock in the forenoon and four of the clock in the afternoon, and any person shall be at liberty to attend at such office for the purpose of pointing out any mistake made in regard to any selection, and the said clerk shall correct any such mistake which is proved to have been made." He pointed out that it threw no expense upon anyone. What he suggested was that after the list had been made up there should be a limited time given in which persons affected might make corrections in it. That would clear the ground considerably for the Amendments which he understood were to be moved by the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill. It would obviate a great deal of expense also by giving the persons affected the opportunity to correct obvious inaccuracies in the list during the period allowed by public advertisement for that purpose and avoid the necessity for an application to the High Court or even the County Court if it was proposed to give jurisdiction to that tribunal—for even County Court proceedings involved expense. After this opportunity had been given and when the lists were finally closed the inaccuracy must be a very serious one for anyone to incur the expense of an application to the Court. He begged to move.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 1, line 28, after the words last inserted, to insert the words 'Provided always that the clerk shall give public notice before the registers are finally printed that they are open for inspection at his office between the hours of ten of the clock in the forenoon and four of the clock in the afternoon, and any person shall be at liberty to attend at such; office for the purpose of pointing out any mistake made in regard to any selection, and the said clerk shall correct any such mistake which is proved to have been made.'"—(Mr. Nield.)
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid he could not accept this Amendment. The list could not be open to inspection before it was printed, because the margin of time at the disposal of the clerk was too narrow to permit of it. The 20th would be the last day for printing. But if the list was open to inspection after it was printed, the voter would be able 916 to see between then and the time it became current on the 1st of January and would be able to get redress by the method he (Mr. Harcourt) had suggested.
§ *MR. NIELDpointed out that he provided by his Amendment for an inspection between the time when the list was in proof and the time it was finally printed.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid he feared it would be impossible to depart from the date fixed under the Bill without some; very special and pressing reason for the departure. Notice might be given up to the 20th, but further corrections could not be made after that date except by the order of the Court. He was, however, anxious to make that as easy as possible.
§ MR. FORSTER (Kent, Sevenoaks)pointed out that some parts of the register were printed long before the 20th. As soon as one part of the register was passed by the revising barrister it was set up in type and proofs were struck, and he could not see any reason why the suggestion of his hon. friend could not be accepted in order that obvious mistakes might be corrected and the list made fairly accurate.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDregretted the right hon. Gentleman could not see his way to accept the Amendment. There were provisions in all the Acts affecting representation that these lists should be open to inspection, and seeing that the lists were in many cases printed weeks before the time suggested, and having regard to the fact that this inspection had always been allowed, he could not see why it should not be given now. At a later date, the 5th of September, the proper officer would revise the particular notice. All that was asked by the Amendment was that some further opportunity, a few days, should be given to the public to see that the register, which ought to be marked in a certain way, was, in fact, so marked.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid he had not the slightest intention of further limiting the time during which the list was open to the inspection of the voter. He would take care that in the Order in Council the 917 time now available for inspection by a voter should not be diminished in any way.
§ SIR E. CARSON (Dublin University)observed that it they did not allow the clerk to correct an obvious mistake they put a lawsuit upon the unfortunate voter, who would have to make an application in what the right hon. Gentleman was pleased to call some neighbouring Court, whereas all he would have to do if he were allowed to do what the Amendment suggested would be to point out to the clerk that he had sent in a notice, and to ask why his name was not on the list. It would be a very poor recompense to the voter if, after the trouble he had taken to investigate the register, he was told he must take legal proceedings before a Court to have the matter put right. Further, as he understood, the lists were signed at the end of the registration by the revising barrister. If these alterations were to hang on they would have to be put upon the lists after the revising barrister had signed them. It seemed to him to be a very bad practice and a very bad system for lists to be altered after they were signed. What was to happen,
§ supposing the voter was successful? Was he then to be marked on the list? Suppose there were several mistakes, was the list to be reprinted, or what was to happen? Surely before the date fixed by Parliament the list should become complete, and everything should be done to make the list perfect, so that those who were qualified might be able to see their names on the register. The whole of the difficulty arose from the simple fact that those who framed the Bill, instead of leaving, as Parliament had done hitherto under the Franchise Acts, to the revising barrister the duty for which he was paid, of settling these lists, had set up an entirely now tribunal. Anything more cumbrous than this proceeding it was impossible to imagine—the clerk, revising barrister, the County Court, the High Court, and no doubt the voter would end in the Coroner's Court. He certainly thought that the Amendment of his hon. friend was a good one and should be accepted.
§ Question put.
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 85; Noes, 329. (Division List No. 344.)
921| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F. | Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Morpeth, Viscount |
| Anstruther-Gray, Major | Doughty, Sir George | Muntz, Sir Philip A. |
| Ashley, W. W. | Faber, George Denison (York) | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(City Lond. | Fell, Arthur | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Percy, Earl |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Forster, Henry William | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester) | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Handles, Sir John Scurrah |
| Barrie, Hn. T. (Londonderry, N.) | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Gordon, Sir W. Evans-(T'r Ham | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hamilton, Marquess of | Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'd | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Bull, Sir William James | Hay, Hon. Claude George. | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Heaton, John Henniker | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Butcher, Samuel Henry | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Carson, Kt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W. | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G.(Oxf'd Univ |
| Cave, George | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark |
| Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C. W. | Liddell, Henry | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Valentia, Viscount |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Wor. | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesh'm | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.) | Warde, Col. C. E (Kent, Mid.) |
| Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm'gh'm | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Courthope G. Loyd | Magnus, Sir Philip | Younger, George |
| Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S. | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | |
| Craig, Captain James (Down, E. | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | |
| Craik, Sir Henry | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Nield and Mr. Marks. | |
| Dalrymple, Viscount | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N.E. | Delany, William | Jacoby, James Alfred |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Jenkins, J. |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. | Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) |
| Alden, Percy | Donelan, Captain A. | Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea) |
| Ambrose, Robert | Duckworth, James | Jones, Leif (Appleby) |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Duffy, William J. | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) |
| Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness | Jowett, F. W. |
| Astbury, John Meir | Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Joyce, Michael |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Kearley, Hudson E. |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight | Dunne Major Emartin (Walsall) | Kekewich, Sir George |
| Barker, John | Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Kincaid-Smith, Captain |
| Barlow, John Emmott (S'm'rset) | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James |
| Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Edwards, Frank (Radnor) | Laidlaw, Robert |
| Barnard, E. B. | Elibank, Master of | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward | Lambert, George |
| Beale, W. P. | Erskine, David C. | Lamont, Norman |
| Beaumont, Hn. W. C. B. (Hex'm) | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Langley, Batty |
| Beck, A. Cecil | Everett, R. Lacey | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) |
| Bellairs, Carlyon | Faber, G. H. (Boston) | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
| Belloc, Hilaire Joseph Peter R. | Fenwick, Charles | Leese, Sir Josep F. (Accrington) |
| Benn, W.(T'w'rH'ml'ts,S. Geo.) | Ferens, T. R. | Lehmann, R. C. |
| Bertram, Julius | Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich) |
| Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford) | Field, William | Lewis, John Herbert |
| Billson, Alfred | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace | Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Flynn, James Christopher | Lough, Thomas |
| Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire) | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Lundon, W. |
| Boland, John | Freeman-Thomas, Freeman | Lyell, Charles Henry |
| Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey) | Fuller, John Michael F. | Lynch, H. B. |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Fullerton, Hugh | Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs. |
| Brace, William | Gardner, Col. Alan (Hereford, S.) | Mackarness, Frederic C. |
| Bramsdon, T. A. | Gibb, James (Harrow) | Maclean, Donald |
| Brigg, John | Gill, A. H. | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. |
| Bright, J. A. | Ginnell, L. | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John | MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.) |
| Brooke, Stopford | Glover, Thomas | M'Crae, George |
| Brunner, J. F L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Goddard, Daniel Ford | M'Kean, John |
| Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T.(Chesh. | Grant, Corrie | M'Kenna, Reginald |
| Bryce, Rt. Hn. James Aberdeen | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | M'Killop, W. |
| Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs) | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward | M'Micking, Major G. |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Griffith, Ellis J. | Maddison, Fredrick |
| Burnyeat, W. J. D. | Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill | Mallet, Charles E. |
| Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles | Gulland, John W. | Manfield, Harry (Northants) |
| Byles, William Pollard | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | Mansfield. H. Rendall (Lincoln |
| Cairns, Thomas | Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Marnham, F. J. |
| Cameron, Robert | Hall, Frederick | Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry) |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis | Massie, J. |
| Carr-Gomm, H W | Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil) | Masterman, C. F. G. |
| Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Wore'r) | Meagher, Michael |
| Cawley, Frederick | Hart-Davies T. | Menzies, Walter |
| Chance, Frederick William | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Micklem, Nathaniel |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Harwood, George | Molteno, Perey Alport |
| Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Money, L. G. Chiozza |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Montagu, E. S. |
| Clough, W, | Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Mooney, J. J. |
| Clynes, J. R. | Hedges, A. Paget | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen |
| Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.) | Helme, Norval Watson | Morley, Rt. Hon. John |
| Cobbold, Felix Thornley | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Morrell, Philip |
| Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W. | Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.) | Morse, L. L. |
| Cooper, G. J. | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Murnaghnn, George |
| Corbett, C. H (Sussex, E. Grinst'd | Higham, John Sharp | Murphy, John |
| Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Hobart, Sir Robert | Murray, James |
| Cox, Harold | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | Myer, Horatio |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Hodge, John | Napier, T. B. |
| Crossley, William J. | Hogan, Michael | Newnes, Sir George (Swansea) |
| Dalmeny, Lord | Hooper, A. G. | Nicholls, George |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Hudson, Walter | Nolan, Joseph |
| Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan) | Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Norman, Henry |
| Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Idris, T. H. W. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Illingworth, Percy H. | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
| Nuttall, Harry | Robson Sir William Snowdon | Vivian, Henry |
| O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid | Rogers, F E. Newman | Wadsworth, J. |
| O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Rose, Charles Day | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose |
| O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) | Rowlands, J. | Walker, D. De R. (Leicester) |
| O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Runciman, Walter | Walters, John Tudor |
| O'Doherty, Philip | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.) |
| O'Grady, J. | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent |
| O'Malley, William | Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester) | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton |
| O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Scott, A. H. (Ashtonunder Lyne) | Wardle, George J. |
| Palmer, Sir Charles Mark | Seely, Major J. B. | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Parker, James (Halifax) | Shackleton, David James | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
| Paul, Herbert | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B. | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney |
| Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Watt, H. Anderson |
| Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton) | Sloan, Thomas Henry | Weir, James Galloway |
| Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | White, George (Norfolk) |
| Pickersgill, Edward Hare | Smyth, Thos. F. (Leitrim, S.) | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
| Pirie, Duncan V. | Snowden, P. | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Pollard, D. | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central) | Soares, Ernest J. | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Price, Robert John(Norfolk, E.) | Spicer, Sir Albert | Whittaker, Sir Thomas Palmer |
| Raphael, Herbert H. | Stanger, H. Y. | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n) |
| Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Steadman, W. C. | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Redmond, William (Clare) | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Wills, Arthur Walters |
| Rees, J. D. | Strachey, Sir Edward | Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull, W. |
| Rendall, Athelstan | Stuart, James (Sunderland) | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R. |
| Renton, Major Leslie | Sullivan, Donal | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.) |
| Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'th | Summerbell, T. | Wilson, J. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
| Rchards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Richardson, A. | Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Winfrey, R. |
| Rickett, J. Compton | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Wodehouse, Lord(Norfolk, Mid) |
| Ridsdale, E. A. | Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (H'd'rsf'd) |
| Roberts Charles H. (Lincoln) | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) | Young, Samuel |
| Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Thorne, William | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) | Tomkinson, James | |
| Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee | Toulmin, George | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease. |
| Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips | |
| Robinson, S. | Verney, F. W. |
Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and agreed to.
§
VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGH moved to add at the end of sub-section (2) the words—
The notice of selection may be withdrawn by the voter himself, or by an agent authorised by him in writing, in a form to be prescribed by Order in Council under this Act.
These words he considered to be absolutely necessary. At the present moment there was no provision whatever in the Bill as to who might withdraw the notice of selection. In this connection there was a certain amount of ambiguity—a characteristic which had been noticed in other parts of the Bill. As the Bill stood it was possible for a notice to be sent without the authority of the voter, and it was obvious that if the town clerk acted bona fide on a notice of withdrawal the voter would necessarily be disfranchised. There were many persons who perhaps had a high moral character at other times, but at election times were apt to have their sense of morality dimmed, and consequently he felt that a notice of
922
withdrawal might be sent in by an unscrupulous agent or some person with a view of not allowing a voter to exercise his right to vote. It was a point that had not been previously raised, and he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would give an assurance that it should be considered or that a penalty should be imposed in the case of anyone sending in a notice of withdrawal without the consent of the voter himself. He knew there were objections entertained by the right hon. Gentleman to a prescribed form, but he did not share those objections, for he felt sure that the electors would soon accustom themselves to the rule. The right hon. Gentleman had made a point at the beginning of the section that the notice of selection should be signed by the voter, so that he was entirely at a loss to understand why similar words had not been inserted in respect of the notice of withdrawal. He would not like to suggest that the omission was due to
923
careless drafting, although up to the present it had been a very obvious feature of the provisions of the Bill. In moving this Amendment he was endeavouring to assist in the simplification of the working of the Bill, for while he hoped it would never come into force, if it did pass he hoped it would be in a form that would be simple and free from difficulties.
§
Amendment proposed—
On page 1, line 28, to add the words, 'The notice of sleection may be withdrawn by the voter himself or by an agent authorised by him in writing in a form preseribed by Order in Council made under this Act.'"—(Viscount Castlereagh.)
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there added."
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid he could not accept this Amendment. All through he had been very anxious to save the plural voter trouble, and now the noble Lord wished to make the withdrawal only in a prescribed form. They agreed that the form of notice of selection should be optional in the Order in Council. There would equally be an optional form of withdrawal. It would be a hardship nor, to be able to withdraw a notice of selection by an ordinary letter just as the voter was able to make it by an ordinary letter. Probably the noble Lord had in mind some of those unscrupulous men of whom he seemed to have had experience at election times. Any action of the kind which had been referred to would be forgery and punishable as such. He could not possibly accept the Amendment. He would like to take this opportunity of making an appeal to the Committee. This was the fifth day, and as far as he could, without sacrificing the principle of the measure, he had endeavoured to meet every reasonable request that had been made by the Opposition. He had promised to put in a number of provisions which he did not, believe were necessary, and the only Amendments he had refused were those which he thought would be mischievous. He had tried to meet the wishes of hon. Members opposite in every possible way, and he hoped they would now allow the discussion on this clause to proceed more quickly.
§ SIR E. CARSONsaid the statement which they had just listened to showed that the right hon. Gentleman opposite was capable of exhibiting in this House a good deal of effrontery. [Cries of "Sneak."]
§ MR. J. WARDYou are an expert on the subject.
§ SIR E. CARSONsaid anybody who had listened to the discussion must have concluded that a more ill-considered measure from any point of view had never come before the House of Commons. Early in the discussions the right hon. Baronet the Member for the Forest of Dean stated that the Bill had been brought in in an absolutely unworkable form. After all the efforts made by the Opposition to knock the Bill into some sort of workable shape the right hon. Gentleman came forward and made an appeal to them as if there had been obstruction in connection with the measure. There never was a case in which there was less ground for making such a charge. The present Amendment merely asked that the person who made the selection should be protected by some provision which would prevent a fraud upon him after he had made his selection, and yet such a proposal had been refused by the right hon. Gentleman.
§ *MR. MITCHELL-THOMSON (Lanarkshire, N.W.)said he could not support the Amendment in its present form, but he thought a voter ought to be able to withdraw his selection by a letter or a form. A great deal had been put in the Bill with regard to the notice of selection, but from first to last in their discussions they had not heard a word about the form which the notice of withdrawal was going to take. Did the right hon. Gentleman propose that the withdrawal should be by a form or that it should be optional and that the voter would be entitled to write a letter? If so, did he propose that either the form or the letter should be signed by the voter himself? Did he propose to take the necessary steps to see that this provision would be actually put into practice and not disregarded, as the Committee had been told the existing statute was 925 disregarded? If the right hon. Gentleman proposed to make the withdrawal on all tours with the notice of selection, why did he not say so in the Bill? He should like to know clearly, was the notice of withdrawal to be kept and preserved by the clerk in the same way as the notice of selection? Where there were a number of divisions in one borough, could a man send a notice of withdrawal and selection on the same piece of paper?
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid two notices were mentioned, namely, the notice of selection and the notice of withdrawal. In his opinion the notice of withdrawal was just as important as the notice of selection, because the giving of the notice of withdrawal might be absolutely essential to secure a man's right to vote in some other constituency. The criticism which had been directed to the wording of the Bill and the arguments used in support of this Amendment showed conclusively that all the safeguards necessary to protect the notice of selection ought to be repeated and have the same application to the notice of withdrawal.
§ MR. LANE-FOX (Yorkshire, W.R., Barkston Ash)hoped the right hon. Gentleman would give a further answer upon this question. There was a great deal to be said for the argument that a withdrawal should only be made by the person concerned or with his authority in writing. The Amendment would not impair the principle of the Bill at all. In fact, it would be a distinct improvement. The right hon. Gentleman said his desire was to save the plural voter trouble, and he would be doing this if he made fraud impossible.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid he agreed that the matter of selection and withdrawal should be on the same footing. He wished to keep them exactly on all fours, and if there were any words necessary to provide that the withdrawal should be made in writing by the voter himself he would see that they were introduced. They had already decided that the selection should be made by the voter and signed by him, and the withdrawal must be on the same basis. He would inquire 926 whether any words were necessary to secure this object.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDasked when they might expect to see the subsection carrying out what the right hon. Gentleman had just promised.
§ MR. HARCOURTOn the Report stage.
§ VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGHsaid he was prepared to accept the right hon. Gentleman's assurance that on the Report stage he would put in words which would carry out the object he had in view. Under those circumstances he asked leave to withdraw his Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§
*MR. FELL moved to leave out subsection (3). He held that the subsection was unnecessary, and ought to be omitted. If a man voted twice at any given election the sub-section had nothing whatever to do with that point. The first part of the section provided that no one should vote twice or ask for a ballot or voting-paper for the purpose of so voting, and any person who contravened that section would incur heavy penalties, It was proposed by this sub-section that heavy penalties should be incurred if a man who made an error in regard to the register of the constituency in which he voted, but that had nothing to do with his voting twice or attempting to vote twice. When they examined sub-section (3) in detail they saw that for trivial offences a man was to be deemed guilty of an illegal practice within the meaning of the Corrupt and Illegal Practice Act, 1883. He believed the Committee would agree that this sub-section in its entirety had better be left out. Under it it was proposed to make it an illegal practice if any person—
sends or causes to be sent a notice of his election of a voting constituency to the clerk of the county council or town clerk of more than one constituency to take effect in the same year.
Chat did not give him two votes, and what they wanted to stop was plural noting. What would happen would be hat the votes would be starred in two
927
constituencies instead of one, but under this sub-section if a man by accident, or in any other way, sent notices of selection to the clerks of two counties he would be guilty of an illegal practice. The second part of the sub-section made it an offence if any person—
sends or causes to be sent a notice of his selection of a voting constituency without withdrawing any notice which is in operation in any other constituency.
The penalty for that offence would be a fine of £100 and disfranchisement for five years. Sub-sections (1) and (2) provided that a person registered as a Parliamentary elector in more than one constituency should vote only in one, and sub-section (3) merely provided machinery for keeping the register in a more correct condition than it would otherwise be. It also created two new crimes which had never before been dreamt of in this country, and provided for punishing guilty persons by heavy penalties. He hoped the Committee would agree that it was not necessary to add these two new crimes to the calendar.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 1, to leave out sub-section (3)."—(Mr. Fell.)
§ Question proposed, "That the words 'if any person' stand part of the clause."
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid it had been argued that this sub-section dealt with what would be a trivial offence, but if a man by not withdrawing a selection or sending more than one selection was marked as a, voter in several constituencies contrary to the intention of the Act it was a serious offence, because he would be able to evade the law much more easily. The moment a man got this distinguishing mark against his name he put all personation agents and others off the scent. Selection of a constituency was an essential part of the Bill, and if they were to have selection it was quite clear that they must have penalties to enforce the two things dealt with by sub-section (3).
§ SIR F. BANBURY (City of London)said there was some force in what the 928 right hon. Gentleman said, but on the other hand he wished to point out that the penalties proposed to be enforced for what might only be a lapse of memory or want of knowledge were extremely heavy and hard.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid the whole question was governed by the words—
Knowingly and with intent to evade the provisions of this Act.
§ SIR F. BANBURYsaid if the right hon. Gentleman could assure him that sub-section (3) was governed by those words he would not press his objection. But if those words governed the subsection they should come in after and not before it.
§ MR. HARCOURTthought the object desired could be attained by accepting the Amendment of the hon. Member for Liverpool.
§ SIR F. BANBURYsaid he understood the right hon. Gentleman was willing to put in words, and therefore he would not continue to press his point.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid if the right hon. Gentleman would accept the words of a later Amendment standing in his name it seemed to him that the necessities of the case would be met. It was clear that the right hon. Gentleman only wanted the penalties inflicted where the offence had been committed knowingly and with intent to evade the provisions of the Act. The punishment which could be given for an illegal Act was only £100, not £200, as had been stated, and it was not possible to inflict imprisonment at all. Then the loss of civil rights, instead of being for seven years, which it would be under the Corrupt Practices Act, was only for five years; and that only applied to the constituency in which the illegal practice took place. It seemed to him, although he objected to this Bill altogether and to these notices of selection, that this particular sub-section was essential to the framework of the Bill.
§ MR. FELLsaid that after what had been said by the Minister in charge of 929 the Bill he would ask leave to withdraw his Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 1, after the word 'person,' to insert the words, 'knowingly and with intent to evade the provisions of this Act.' "—(Mr. William Rutherford.)
§ VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGHsaid that the Committee had the assurance of the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill that he would on Report consider the subject matter of the next Amendment standing in his name, and he hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would inflict a severe penalty on a person who, without the sanction of the elector, sent or caused to be sent a notice of withdrawal of selection.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 9, to insert the words, '(c) Sends or causes to be sent a notice of withdrawal of selection without the authority of the person who has the right to select.'"—(Viscount Castlereagh.)
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid that he could not undertake to add another penalty for an offence which was already covered at common law. He thought that, a special enactment, such as was suggested by the noble Lord, would produce the impression that the common law could not be applied.
§ VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGHsaid that the question at issue was whether any person who sent in a notice of withdrawal of selection without the authority of the person who had the right to select should not be subjected to a penalty.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid that if any person withdrew a notice of selection without the authority of the voter who had the right to select, he would be guilty of a forgery.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid that they had had an interesting debate the other day in which the right hon. Member for Forest of Dean had described this as one of the ordinary parts of our electoral machinery. The right hon. Gentleman said that it had been deliberately and expressly laid down that persons were to sign the application themselves and that if their signature were placed on the notice by somebody else that was a forgery. The right hon. Gentleman had even put the case where the signature was not the imitated handwriting of the person supposed to be making the application. He did not think that that would amount to forgery at common law.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid that hon. Members were dealing with rather different eases. In one case they were dealing with a man who was acting for the advantage of a voter, and in the other case they were dealing with a man who was acting to the injury of the voter. At common law it was essential in order to constitute an offence that the man should be trying to inflict an injury on the person whose name lie was forging.
§ LORD R. CECILasked if the right hon. Gentleman was sure of that? He thought it was only where pecuniary damage had been done by the forger.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid it was difficult for a layman to give a decided opinion; but he had taken the advice of a very high legal authority, and he would refer the noble Lord to an authority which he would appreciate, although it was not binding on the Courts. In Stephens' Digest, an offence was denned as forgery where any document was altered by which any other person might be injured. That was an expression of opinion which had been generally acted upon at common law.
§ Question, put and negatived.
§ *MR. FELL moved an Amendment to sub-section (3) by which the penalty for an offence under the sub-section should be simply a fine of 40s. instead of five years deprivation of civil rights. The only benefit which a man could got by such a malpractice would be the power 931 to vote in the constituency which he thought would do his friends most good. It was not an attempt to exercise his vote twice at an election. That was not a very serious offence.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 9, to leave out from the word 'be' to end of sub-section, and to insert the words, 'liable to a fine not exceeding forty shillings.'"—(Mr. Fell.)
§ Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out, to the word 'an,' in line 9, stand part of the clause."
932§ MR. HARCOURTsaid the penalty which the hon. Member proposed would be a ridiculous one and he really could not accept it. This Bill dealt with a large property-owning class, and therefore to inflict a fine of 40s. would be no more a deterrent than it was in the case of a motor driver. Moreover, it certainly was not a fine which should be inflicted in a case of this kind.
§ Question put.
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 358; Noes, 89. (Division List No. 345.)
935| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) | Cairns, Thomas | Everett, R. Lacey |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Cameron, Robert | Faber, G. H. (Boston) |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Fenwick, Charles |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Ferens, T. R. |
| Alden, Percy | Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight | Ferguson, R. C. Munro |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Cawley, Frederick | Field, William |
| Ambrose, Robert | Chance, Frederick William | Flynn, James Christopher |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Cheetham, John Frederick | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry |
| Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry | Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. | Freeman-Thomas, Freeman |
| Astbury, John Meir | Churchill, Winston Spencer | Fuller, John Michael F. |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Clarke, C. Goddard | Fullerton, Hugh |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Clough, W. | Gardner, Col. Alan (Hereford, S |
| Barker, John | Clynes, J. R. | Gibb, James (Harrow) |
| Barlow, John Emmott (Somerset | Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.) | Gill, A. H. |
| Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Cobbold, Felix Thornley | Ginnell, L. |
| Barnard, E. B. | Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W | Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John |
| Barnes, G. N. | Cooper, G. J. | Glover, Thomas |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd | Goddard, Daniel Ford |
| Beale, W. P. | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Gooch, George Peabody |
| Beauchamp, E. | Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Grant, Corrie |
| Beaumont, Hn. W.C. B. (Hexham | Cox, Harold | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) |
| Beck, A. Cecil | Cremer, William Randal | Greenwood, Hamar (York) |
| Bellairs, Carlyon | Crooks, William | Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward |
| Bonn, W. (Tw'r Hamlets, S. Geo. | Crosfield, A. H. | Griffith, Ellis J. |
| Bertram, Julius | Crossley, William J. | Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill |
| Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford) | Dalmeny, Lord | Gulland, John W. |
| Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Dalziel, James Henry | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton |
| Billson, Alfred | Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Hall, Frederick |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis |
| Black Arthur W. (Bedfordshire | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Hardie, J. Keir (Mtrthyr Tydvil) |
| Boland, John | Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S. | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) |
| Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E. | Delany, William | Hart-Davies, T. |
| Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey) | Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S) | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) |
| Howennan, C. W. | Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.) | Harwood, George |
| Brace, William | Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N. | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) |
| Bramsdon, T. A. | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) |
| Brigg, John | Donelan, Captain A. | Haworth, Arthur A. |
| Bright, J. A. | Duckworth, James | Hazel, Dr. A. E. |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Dutfy, William J. | Hedges, A. Paget |
| Brodie, H. C. | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness | Helme, Norval Watson |
| Brooke, Stopford | Duncan, J. H. (York. Otley) | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) |
| Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs, Leigh.) | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.) |
| Brunner, R. Hn. Sir J.T. (Chesh | Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) |
| Bryce, Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen | Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Higham, John Sharp |
| Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs) | Edwards, Enoch (Hanky) | Hobart, Sir Robert |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Elibank, Master of | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward | Hodge, John |
| Burnyeat, W. J. D. | Erskine, David C. | Hogan, Michael |
| Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas. | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Helden, E. Hopkinson |
| Byles, William Pollard | Eve, Harry Trelawney | Holland, Sir William Henry |
| Hooper, A. G. | Murnaghan, George | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie |
| Horridge, Thomas Gardne | Murphy, John | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Hudson, Walter | Murray James | Snowden, P. |
| Hutton, Alfred Edddison | Myer, Horatio | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Idris, T. H. W. | Napier, T. B. | Soares, Ernest J. |
| Illingworth, Percy H. | Newnes, Sir George (Swansea) | Spicer, Sir Albert |
| Jacoby, James Alfred | Nicholls, George | Stanger, H. Y. |
| Jenkins, J. | Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doneast'r | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulp (Chesh.) |
| Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) | Nolan, Joseph | Steadman, W. C. |
| Jones, Sir D. Brynmor) Swansea | Norman, Henry | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) |
| Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Strachey, Sir Edward |
| Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire | Nussey, Thomas Willans | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) |
| Jowett, F. W. | Nuttall, Harry | Stuart, James (Sunderland) |
| Joyce, Michael | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid | Sullivan, Donal |
| Kearley, Hudson, E. | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Summerbell, T. |
| Kekewich, Sir George | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) |
| Kincaid-Smith Captain | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| King, Alfred John (Knutsford) | O'Doherty, Philip | Taylor, Theodore. C. (Radcliffe) |
| Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James | O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth) | Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) |
| Laidlaw, Robert | O'Grady, J. | Thomas, Abel (Carmorghen, E. |
| Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster | O'Malley, William | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E. |
| Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr |
| Lambert, George | Palmor, Sir Charles Mark | Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset E. |
| Lamont, Norman | Parker, James (Halifax) | Thorne, William |
| Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Paul, Herbert | Tomkinson, James |
| Layland-Barratt, Francis | Pearce, Robert (Stalls, Leek) | Torrance, Sir A. M. |
| Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington) | Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Toulmin, George |
| Lehmann, R. C. | Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich | Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) | Verney, F. W. |
| Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral | Pickersgill, Edward Hare | Vivian, Henry |
| Levy, Maurice | Pirie, Duncan V. | Wadsworth, J. |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Pollard, Dr. | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose |
| Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David | Price, C. E (Edinb'gh, Central | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) |
| Lough, Thomas | Price, Robt. John (Norfolk, E.) | Wallace, Robert |
| Lundon, W. | Raphael, Herbert H. | Walsh, Stephen |
| Lyell, Charles Henry | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Walters, John Tudor |
| Lynch, H. B. | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro' | Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.) |
| Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Mackarness, Frederic C. | Redmond, William (Clare) | Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent) |
| Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Rees, J. D. | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton |
| MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.) | Rendall, Athelstan | Wardle George J. |
| MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.) | Renton, Major Leslie | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| M'Crae, George | Richards, Thos. (W. Monmouth) | Wason Eugene Clackmannan) |
| M'Kean, John | Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mptn | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| M'Kenna, Reginald | Richardson, A. | Watt, H. Anderson |
| M'Killey, W. | Rickett, J. Compton | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) | Ridsdale, E. A. | Weir, James Galloway |
| M'Micking, Major G. | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | White, George (Norfolk) |
| Maddison, Frederick | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
| Mallet, Charles E. | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Manfield, Harry (Northants) | Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Mansfield, H. Kendall (Lincoln) | Robinson, S. | Whitehead, Rowland |
| Markham, Arthur Basil | Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Whitley, J. H. (Haliafx) |
| Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston | Roe, Sir Thomas | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Marnham, F. J. | Rogers, F. E. Newman | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthn |
| Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry) | Rose, Charles Day | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Massie, J. | Rowlands, J. | Wilson, Hn. C H. W. (Hull, W. |
| Masterman, C. F. G. | Runciman, Walter | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R. |
| Meagher, Michael | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
| Menzies, Walter | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestershire, N |
| Micklem, Nathaniel | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Molteno, Percy Alport | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Winfrey, R. |
| Money, L. G. Chiozza | Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester) | Wodehouse, Lord (Norfolk, Mid |
| Montagu, E. S. | Scott, A. H. (Ashton under Lyne | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Huddersfd. |
| Montgomery, H. G. | Sears, J. E. | Young, Samuel |
| Mooney, J. J. | Soely, Major J. B. | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall) | Shackleton, David James | |
| Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease. |
| Morrell, Philip | Shipman, Dr. John G. | |
| Morse, L. L. | Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John | |
| Morton, Alpheus Cleophas | Sloan, Thomas Henry |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F. | Craig, Capt. James (Down, E. | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. |
| Anstruther-Gray, Major | Craik, Sir Henry | Mildmay, Francis Bingham |
| Ashley, W. W. | Dalrymple, Viscount | Morpeth, Viscount |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Muntz, Sir Philip A. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond. | Doughty, Sir George | Nield, Herbert |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Duncan, Robert (Lanark. Govan | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Faber, George Denison (York) | Percy, Earl |
| Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Randles, Sir John Scurrah |
| Barrio, H. T. (Londonderry, N.) | Forster, Henry William | Rawlinson, John Frederick Pee |
| Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Hamilton, Marquess of | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
| Boyle, Sir Edward | Hardy, Lanrence (Kent, Ashford | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Bull, Sir William James | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Heaton, John Henniker | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East |
| Butcher, Samuel Henry | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Curlile, E. Hildred | Hills, J. W. | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh. |
| Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Kenyon-Slaney Rt. Hn. Col. W. | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Cave, George | Kimber, Sir Henry | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark |
| Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W. | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Liddell, Henry | Valentia, Viscount |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Wore. | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) | Wilson, A. Stanley(York, E. R.) |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S. | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birmingh'm | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Younger, George |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | M'Calmont, Colonel James | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— Mr. Fell and Mr. Watson Rutherford. |
| Courthope, G. Loyd | Magnus, Sir Philip | |
| Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.) | Marks, H. H. (Kent) |
§ MR.RAWLINSON(Cambridge University) moved to amend Clause 1, by leaving out the words stating that an offender would be guilty of "an illegal practice within the meaning of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Prevention Act, 1883," in order to insert: "And an offence and hall on summary conviction he liable to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds, and be incapable during a period of five years from the date of his conviction of being registered as an elector or voting at any election (whether it be a Parliamentary election or an election for a public office held for or within the county or borough in which the illegal practice has been committed)." The hon. Member explained that the object of his Amendment was very simple: that instead of referring to various Acts of Parliament the penalties should all be stated in this Bill. He had, in order to carry out his intention, looked up the provisions of all the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Arts. He had never known any body who had anything to do with Acts of Parliament 10 justify this system of legislation by reference. The right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer on a previous occasion had frankly admitted that he had used the same 936 arguments when in Opposition and proceeded to give the same answer as that which he had then received, namely, that it was done as a matter of convenience, and if these penalties were set out in the Bill it would lead to a great deal of discussion and innumerable Amendments. If it was true that Parliament did not know what it had done when it legislated in this way then the system ought to come to an end. In a case with which they were sadly familiar at the present time, the West Riding case, Mr. Justice Farwell said that in Acts of Parliament there were frequently ambiguous expressions, and the learned Judge almost suggested that sometimes those ambiguities were purposely allowed to remain in Acts by this House. If that was so it was a scandalous state of things. If that were true there could be no harm, instead of legislating by reference, in taking this opportunity to add the Amendment, which he had placed upon the Paper, to the Bill. He begged to move.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 9, to leave out from the word 'of,' to end of clause, and to insert the words, 'an offence, and shall on summary conviction be
937
able to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds, and be incapable during a period of live years from the date of his conviction of being registered as an elector or voting at any election (whether it be a Parliamentary election or an election for a public office) held for or within the county or borough in which the illegal practice has been committed.'"—(Mr. Rawlinson.)
§ Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out, to the second word 'of,' in line 9, stand part of the clause."
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid that the arguments of the hon. Member as to the undesirable character of legislation by reference to other Acts were very familiar to the Loaders of the Unionist Party. He did not think that the House or Ministers would over part now with a habit which they had by compulsion adopted of legislating as far as they could by reference and in order to save themselves from the plethora of eloquence to which they were often exposed on Amendments which wore almost frivolous in their character. ["Oh, oh."] It was not necessary to argue the question of legislation by reference, but if the hon. Member wanted a defence of the method, he must apply to his Leader sitting below him. It was, however, a moderately convenient method, and the Government hoped by its means to attain the result at which they aimed.
§ LORD R. CECILsaid the defence of the Minister in charge of the Bill amounted to the statement that a practice had now grown up of legislating by reference which could not be ignored. That argument only wanted to be carried a little further and it would be said that this was a precedent which could not be departed from. The second argument of the right hon. Gentleman was that it had already been done by the Leader of the Opposition. If it had been done, he (Lord R. Cecil) had no knowledge of it personally, and he could only regret it. He trusted the present democratic House of Commons would free the Legislature from that reproach. All it meant was this: that Ministers got up and said, "If we cannot legislate in this way we cannot legislate at all." In other words, their plea was that the House of Commons was no longer capable of doing what it was constituted to do. If that was so, let them have a new House of Commons; let them 938 not put upon the Statute Book a mass of ill-considered statutes. He ventured to appeal once again to hon. Members, many of whom he knew were perfectly in agreement with him upon this question, to put into Bills where they could the enacting words. They might not be able to do it in all cases, but at all events let them in this case create a precedent and insert the enacting words of this Amendment, instead of referring to previous statutes. It was doubly necessary in a matter of criminal law that persons should know the penalties that might be incurred instead of, their having to search through the Statute Book.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid there were really two points before the Committee. Upon one he was in general agreement with his hon. friend. Upon the other and more general question he thought there was a very large assumption of what a longer Parliamentary experience would show to be an impracticable ideal. In the present case he should think there could be no difficulty in introducing the words of his hon. friend. There could only be one opinion upon the advantage of not legislating by reference if it could be avoided, and there were arguments of strength for introducing words and thus making quite clear what were the penalties. This was a case where it was very desirable that the actual words should be introduced. If the result of introducing those words would be to create a protracted debate he should think the course adopted by the Government might be justified. But was it alleged that the introduction of the words of his hon. friend would lead to a great flow of eloquence or that progress would be delayed by adopting the suggestion? If that was not alleged this was one of the cases in which everything pointed in the direction of legislating directly by placing the penalties in the Bill rather than indirectly by referring to previous statutes. But whilst urging the Government to accept this Amendment he did not think it possible in the modern House of Commons, however constituted, for legislation by reference to be wholly evaded. His two hon. and learned friends approached this question
§ without a very long Parliamentary experience behind them. Both were eminent lawyers and both saw the inconvenience of this modern practice of legislating by reference, but he was quite certain that it could not be avoided. He was absolutely convinced from his own experience that every Government would be drawn into this method, objectionable as it was. It was not convenient to lawyers, but it was quite impossible that it should be avoided. Did anyone deny—he certainly never had denied—that if they had an assembly of 670 Members, all qualified to speak, and many of them very anxious to speak, debates in this House must be prolonged. He had never denied that the prolongation might be such that each Government might be driven in turn to adopt closure by compartment, which, though a disastrous method, was in some cases absolutely essential. If those were the straits to which they had been driven already by the inevitable development of our Parliamentary institutions, then he said they could not afford to give up any device such as that by legislation by reference. He was himself responsible for much legislation by reference, and now that he was in opposition he was not going to repudiate views which he honestly held then and still held. Therefore on the question of the broad necessity of using this method of legislation by reference he did not think the Government
940§ were open to attack. He did not think the Government, however, were very wise in this particular case, because they were dealing with a penalty to which large numbers of voters in the country might render themselves liable, and there was a plain advantage, not from the lawyer's point of view in this case, but from the point of view of the public, in placing on the face of the statute the precise penalty which it was meant to inflict. As he was quite unable to see how proceedings on this Bill would be prolonged by stating in plain language how if was intended to punish and what punishment was to be given, he did press upon the Government that without abandoning the general standpoint of the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill they might make a concession in the case of this Amendment.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDrose to speak.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANrose in his place and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."
§ Question put, "That the Question be now put."—(Sir H. Campbell-Banner-man.)
§ '"The Committee divided:—Ayes, 356; Noes, 96. (Division List No. 346.)
943| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) | Benn, W. (T'w'rHamlets, S. Geo. | Burnyeat, W. J. D. |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Bertram, Julius | Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas. |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford) | Byles, William Pollard |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon | Cairns, Thomas |
| Alden, Percy | Billson, Alfred | Cameron, Robert |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. |
| Ambrose, Robert | Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire | Carr-Gomm, H. W. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Boland, John | Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight |
| Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry | Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Cawley, Frederick |
| Astbury, John Meir | Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey) | Chance, Frederick William |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Bowerman, C. W. | Cheetham, John Frederick |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Brace, William | Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight | Bramsdon, T. A. | Churchill, Winston Spencer |
| Barker, John | Brigg, John | Clarke, C. Goddard |
| Barlow, John Emmott (Somers't | Bright, J. A. | Clough, W. |
| Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Brocklehurst, W. B. | Clynes, J. R. |
| Barnard, E. B. | Brodie, H. C. | Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.) |
| Barnes, G. N. | Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Cobbold, Felix Thornley |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Brunner, Rt Hn. Sir J. T. (Chesh.) | Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W |
| Beale, W. P. | Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs) | Corbett CH. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd |
| Beauchamp, E. | Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. |
| Beaumont, Hn. W. C. B. (Hexh'm | Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Cotton, Sir H. J. S. |
| Heck, A. Cecil | Burke, E. Haviland- | Cox, Harold |
| Bellairs, Carlyon | Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) |
| Cremer, William Randal | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | Morse, L. L. |
| Crooks, William | Hodge, John | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas |
| Crosfield, A. H. | Hogan, Michael | Murnaghan, George |
| Dalmeny, Lord | Holden, E. Hopkinson | Murphy, John |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Holland, Sir William Henry | Murray, James |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Hooper, A. G. | Myer, Horatio |
| Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan | Horridge, Thomas Gardner | Napier, T. B. |
| Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Hudson, Walter | Newnes, Sir George (Swansea) |
| Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Nicholls, George |
| Delany, William | Hyde, Clarendon | Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r) |
| Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Illingworth, Percy H. | Nolan, Joseph |
| Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N. | Jacoby, James Alfred | Norman, Henry |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Jenkins, J. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Dunelan, Captain A. | Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
| Duckworth, James | Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea | Nuttall, Harry |
| Duffy, William J. | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Jowett, F. W. | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Joyce, Michael | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Dunne, Major E. Martn (Walsall | Kearley, Hudson E. | O'Doherty, Philip |
| Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Kekewich, Sir George | O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth) |
| Edwards, Frank (Radnor) | Kincaid-Smith, Captain | O'Grady J. |
| Elibank, Master of | King, Alfred John (Knutsford | O'Kelly, Jas (Roscommon, N.) |
| Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward | Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James | O'Malley, William |
| Erskine, David C. | Laidlaw, Robert | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster | Palmer, Sir Charles Mark |
| Eve, Harry Trelawney | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Everett, R. Lacey | Lambert, George | Paul, Herbert |
| Faber, G. H (Boston) | Lamont, Norman | Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek) |
| Fenwick, Charles | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Pearce, William (Limehouse) |
| Ferens, T. R. | Layland-Barratt, Francis | Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton |
| Forguson, R. C. Munro | Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington | Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) |
| Fiennes, Hon. Eustace | Lehmann, R. C. | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Flynn, James Christopher | Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Levy, Maurice | Pollard, Dr. |
| Freeman-Thomas, Freeman | Lewis, John Herbert | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Fuller, John Michael F. | Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David | Rainy, A. Rolland |
| Fullerton, Hugh | Lough, Thomas | Raphael, Herbert H. |
| Gardner, Col. Alan (Hereford, S. | Lundon, W. | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) |
| Gibb, James (Harrow) | Lupton, Arnold | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro' |
| Gill, A. H. | Lyell, Charles Henry | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Ginnell, L. | Lynch, H. B. | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John | Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Bghs. | Rees, J. D. |
| Glover, Thomas | Maclean, Donald | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Renton, Major Leslie |
| Gooch, George Peabody | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. | Richards, Thos. (W. Monm'th) |
| Grant, Corrie | MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.) | Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n |
| Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | M'Crae, George | Richardson, A. |
| Greenwood, Hamar (York) | M'Kean, John | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward | M'Kenna, Reginald | Ridsdale, E. A. |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | M'Killop, W. | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln |
| Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Gulland, John W. | M'Micking, Major G. | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | Maddison, Frederick | Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee) |
| Hall, Frederick | Mallet, Charles E. | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Harcourt, Right Hon. Lewis | Manfield, Harry (Northants) | Robinson, S. |
| Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil) | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln) | Robson, Sir William Snowdon |
| Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) | Markham, Arthur Basil | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Hart-Davies, T. | Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston) | Rogers, F. E. Newman |
| Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry) | Rose, Charles Day |
| Harwood, George | Massie, J. | Runciman, Walter |
| Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Masterman, C. F. G. | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) |
| Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Menzies, Walter | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) |
| Haworth, Arthur A. | Micklem, Nathaniell | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) |
| Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Molteno, Percy Alport | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) |
| Hedges, A. Paget | Money, L. G. Chiozza | Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester) |
| Helme, Norval Watson | Montagu, E. S. | Scott, A. H. (Ashton under Lyne |
| Hemmerde, Edward George | Montgomery, H. G. | Sears, J. E. |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Mooney, J. J. | Seely, Major J. B. |
| Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.) | Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall) | Shackleton, David James |
| Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B. |
| Higham, John Sharp | Morley, Rt. Hon. John | Shipman, Dr. John G. |
| Hobart, Sir Robert | Morrell, Philip | Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John |
| Sloan, Thomas Henry | Thorne, William | Weir, James Galloway |
| Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | Tomkinson, James | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire |
| Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S. | Torrance, Sir A. M. | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Snowden, P. | Toulmin, George | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Trevelyan, Charles Philips | Whitehead, Rowland |
| Soares, Ernest J. | Verney, F. W. | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Spicer, Sir Albert | Vivian, Henry | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) | Wadsworth, J. | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n |
| Steadman, W. C. | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose | Williams Osmond (Merioneth |
| Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) | Wilson, Hon. C. H. W. (Hull, W. |
| Strachey, Sir Edward | Wallace, Robert | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.) |
| Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | Walsh, Stephen | Wilson, J.H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Stuart, James (Sunderland) | Walters, John Tudor | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.) |
| Sullivan, Donal | Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S. | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
| Summerbell, T. | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth | Ward, John(Stoke-upon-Trent | Winfrey, R. |
| Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Ward, W. Dudley (South'mpt. | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudd'rsf'd |
| Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe | Wardle, George J. | Young, Samuel |
| Pennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E. | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan | |
| Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E. | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease. |
| Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr | Watt, H. Anderson | |
| Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E | Wedgwood, Josiah C. | |
| NOES. | ||
| Anstruther-Gray, Major | Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington |
| Ashley, W. W. | Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan | Percy, Earl |
| Balcarres, Lord | Faber, George Denison (York) | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Fell, Arthur | Randles, Sir John Scurrah |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (CityLond. | Finch, Rt. Hn. George H. | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Forster, Henry William | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
| Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester) | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
| Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.) | Hamilton, Marquess of | Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) |
| Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Hay, Hon, Claude George | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Boyle, Sir Edward | Heaton, John Henniker | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Smith, F.E (Liverpool, Walton |
| Bull, Sir William James | Hills, J. W. | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H. | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.) |
| Butcher, Samuel Henry | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W. | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Kimber, Sir Henry | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv. |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark) |
| Cave, George | Liddell, Henry | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W. | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham) | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.) | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R. |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Worc | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birmingham | M'Calmont, Colonel James | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Magnus, Sir Philip | Younger, George |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Marks, H. H. (Kent) | |
| Courthope, G. Loyd | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and |
| Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.) | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | |
| Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | Morpeth, Viscount | Viscount Valentia. |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Muntz, Sir Philip A. | |
| Dalrymple, Viscount | Nield, Herbert |
§ Question put accordingly, "That the words proposed to be left out, to the
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 359; Noes, 95. (Division List No. 347.)
| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Ainsworth, John Stirling | Ambrose, Robert |
| Abraham William (Rhondda) | Alden, Percy | Ashton, Thomas Gair |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry |
§ second word 'of,' in line 9, stand part of the clause."
949H. CAMPBELLL-BANNERMANclaimed "That the Question "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill be now put."
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 361; Noes, 96. (Division List No. 318.)
| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Ainsworth, John Stirling | Ambrose, Robert |
| Abraham William (Rhondda) | Alden, Percy | Ashton, Thomas Gair |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry |
| Astbury, John Meir | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Hudson, Walter |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Hutton, Alfred Eddison |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Delany, William | Hyde, Clarendon |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Illingworth, Percy H. |
| Barker, John | Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras N | Jacoby, James Alfred |
| Barlow, John Emmott (S'm's't | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Jenkins, J. |
| Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Donelan, Captain A. | Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) |
| Barnard, E. B. | Duckworth, James | Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea |
| Barnes, G. N. | Duffy, William J. | Jones, Leif (Appleby) |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire |
| Beale, W. P. | Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Jowett, F. W. |
| Beauchamp, E. | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Joyce, Michael |
| Beaumont, Hn. W. C. B. (H'x'm | Dunne, Major E. Martin (Wals'l | Kearley, Hudson E. |
| Beck, A. Cecil | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Kekewich, Sir George |
| Bellairs, Carlyon | Edwards, Frank (Radnor) | Kelley, George D. |
| Benn, W (Tow'rHamlets, S. Geo. | Elibank, Master of | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) |
| Bertram, Julius | Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward | Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James |
| Bethell, J. R. (Esses, Romford) | Erskine, David C. | Laidlaw, Robert |
| Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster |
| Billson, Alfred | Eve, Harry Trelawney | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Everett, R. Lacey | Lambert, George |
| Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordsh.) | Faber, G. H. (Boston) | Lamont, Norman |
| Boland, John | Fenwick, Charles | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) |
| Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Ferens, T. R. | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
| Boulton, A. C. P. (Ramsey) | Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Field, William | Lehman, Rt. C. |
| Brace, William | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace | Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich |
| Bramsdon, T. A. | Flynn, James Christopher | Levy, Maurice |
| Branch, James | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Lewis, John Herbert |
| Brigg, John | Freeman-Thomas, Freeman | Lough, Thomas |
| Bright, J. A. | Fuller, John Michael F. | Lundon, W. |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Fullerton, Hugh | Lyell, Charles Henry |
| Brodie, H. C. | Gardner, Col. Alan (Heref'd, S.) | Lynch, H. B. |
| Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Gibb, James (Harrow) | Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs |
| Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T. (Chesh. | Gill, A. H. | Maclean, Donald |
| Bryce, Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen | Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. |
| Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs) | Glover, Thomas | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Goddard, Daniel Ford | MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E. |
| Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Gooch, George Peabody | M'Crae, George |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Grant, Corrie | M'Kean, John |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | M'Kenna, Reginald |
| Burnyeat, W. J. D. | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | M'Killop, W. |
| Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles | Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) |
| Byles, William Pollard | Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill | M'Micking, Major G. |
| Cairns, Thomas | Gulland, John W. | Maddison, Frederick |
| Cameron, Robert | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | Mallet, Charles E. |
| Campbell-Bannermm, Sir H. | Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Manfield, Harry (Northants) |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Hall, Frederick | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln |
| Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis | Markham, Arthur Basil |
| Cawley, Frederick | Hardie, J. Kier (Merthyr T'dv'l | Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston |
| Chance, Frederick William | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) | Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry) |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Hart-Davies, T. | Massie, J. |
| Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Masterman, C. F. G. |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Harwood, George | Meagher, Michael |
| Clarke, C. Goddard | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Menzies, Walter |
| Clough, W. | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Micklem, Nathaniel |
| Clynes, J. R. | Haworth, Arthur A. | Moltono, Percy Alport |
| Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.) | Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Money, L. G. Chiozza |
| Cobbold, Felix Thornley | Hedges, A. Paget | Montagu, E. S. |
| Collins, Sir Wm J (S. Pancras, W. | Helme, Norval Watson | Montgomery, H. G. |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Hemmerde, Edward George | Mooney, J. J. |
| Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Gr'std') | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall) |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S. | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen |
| Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Morley, Rt. Hon. John |
| Cox, Harold | Higham, John Sharp | Morrell, Philip |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Hobart, Sir Robert | Morse, L. L. |
| Cremer, William Randal | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas |
| Crooks, William | Hodge, John | Murnaghan, George |
| Crosfield, A. H. | Hogan, Michael | Murphy, John |
| Dahneny, Lord | Holden, E. Hopkinson | Murray, James |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Holland, Sir William Henry | Myer, Horatio |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Hooper, A. G. | Napier, T. B. |
| Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan | Horridge, Thomas Gardner | Newnes, Sir George (Swansea) |
| Nicholls, George | Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee) | Tomkinson, James |
| Nicholson, Charles N. (Donc's) | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Torrance, Sir A. M. |
| Nolan, Joseph | Robinson, S. | Toulmin, George |
| Norman, Henry | Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Roe, Sir Thomas | Verney, F. W. |
| Nussey, Thomas Willans | Rogers, F. E. Newman | Vivian, Henry |
| Nuttall, Harry | Rose, Charles Day | Wadsworth, J. |
| O'Brien, Kendal (Tip'ry Mid.) | Runciman, Walter | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose |
| O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) |
| O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland | Wallace, Hubert |
| O'Connor, John (Kiklaro, N.) | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Walsh, Stephen |
| O'Doherty, Philip | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Walters, John Tudor |
| O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth) | Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manch'ster | Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S. |
| O'Grady, J. | Scott, A. H. (Ashton-under-Lyne | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N | Sears, J. E. | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent |
| O'Malley, William | Seely, Major J. B. | Ward, W. Dudley (S'th'mpton |
| O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Shackleton, David James | Wardle, George J. |
| Palmer, Sir Charles Mark | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B. | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Parker, James (Halifax) | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Wason, Eugune (Clackmannan |
| Paul, Herbert | Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney |
| Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) | Sloan, Thomas Henry | Watt, H. Anderson |
| Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'th'mpt'n) | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S. | Weir, James Galloway |
| Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) | Snowdon, P. | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
| Pickersgill, Edward Hare | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Pirie, Duncan V. | Soares, Ernest J. | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Pollard, Dr. | Spicer, Sir Albert | Whitehead, Rowland |
| Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central) | Stanger, H. Y. | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Rainy, A. Rolland | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Raphael, Herbert H. | Steadman, W. C. | Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'th'n |
| Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro | Strachey, Sir Edward | Wilson, Hon. C. H. W. (Hull, W |
| Redmond, John E. (Waterford | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.) |
| Redmond, William (Clare) | Stuart, James (Sunderland) | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Rees, J. D. | Sullivan, Donal | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N) |
| Rendall, Athelstan | Summerbell, T. | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
| Renton, Major Leslie | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'h | Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Winfrey, R. |
| Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (H'dersf'd |
| Richardson, A. | Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) | Young, Samuel |
| Rickett, J. Compton | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E. | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Ridsdale, E. A. | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E. | |
| Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | Thomas, David Alfred (Merth'r | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr, Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease. |
| Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Thompson, J. W. H. (Somers't, E | |
| Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) | Thorne, William | |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Rt Hn. Sir Alex. F. | Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Wor. | Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H. |
| Anstruther-Gray, Major | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W. |
| Ashley, W. W. | Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birmingh'm | Kimber, Sir Henry |
| Balcarres, Lord | Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Courthope, G. Loyd | Lane-Fox, G. R. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(City, Lond. | Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S. | Liddell, Henry |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Craig, Captain James (Down. E. | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R. |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Craik, Sir Henry | Lond, Col. Charles W. (Evesh'm |
| Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester | Dalrymple, Viscount | Lond, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin. S. |
| Barire, H. T. (Londonderry. N. | Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Lowe, Sir Francis William |
| Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Gov'n | Lyttleton, Rt. Hon. Alfred |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Faber, George Denison (York) | M'Calmont, Colonel James |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Fell, Arthur | Magnus, Sir Philip |
| Boyle, Sir Edward | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Marks, H. H. (Kent) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Forster, Henry William | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. |
| Bull, Sir William James | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Mildmay, Francis Bingham |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Morpeth, Viscount |
| Butcher, Samuel Henry | Hamilton, Marquess of | Muntz, Sir Philip A. |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'd | Nield, Herbert |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Harrison-Boardley, Col. H. B. | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Percy, Earl |
| Cave, George | Heaton, John Henniker | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C. W. | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Randles, Sir John Scurrah |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Hill, J. W. | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'ah. | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E R.) |
| Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter | Stone, Sir Benjamin | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) | Talbot, Lord K. (Chichester) | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart |
| Salter, Arthur Clavell | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Lanark) | Younger, George |
| Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) | Thornton, Percy M. | |
| Smith, Abel H. (Hortf'd, East) | Valentia, Viscount | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Rawlinson and Lord Robert Cecil. |
| Smith, F. E. (Liverpool, Walton | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard | |
| Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.) |
| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Erskine, David C. |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Burnyeat, W. J. D. | Esmonde, Sir Thomas |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Buxton, Rt. Hn Sydney Charles | Eve, Harry Trclawney |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Byles, William Pollard | Everett, R. Lacey |
| Alden, Percy | Cairns, Thomas | Faber, G. H. (Boston) |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Cameron, Robert | Fenwick, Charles |
| Ambrose, Robert | Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Ferens, T. R. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Ferguson, R. C. Munro |
| Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry | Causton, Rt Hn Richard Knight | Field, William |
| Astbury, John Meir | Cawley, Frederick | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Chance, Frederick William | Flynn, James Christopher |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Cheetham, John Frederick | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Cherry, Rt Hon. R. R. | Freeman-Thomas, Freeman |
| Barker, John | Churchill, Winston Spencer | Fuller, John Michael F. |
| Barlow, John Emmott (S'm'rs't | Clarke, C. Goddard | Fullerton, Hugh |
| Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Cleland, J. W. | Gardner, Col. Alan (Hereford. |
| Barnard, E. B. | Clongh, W. | Gibb, James (Harrow) |
| Barnes, G. N. | Clynes, J. R. | Gill, A. H. |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W. | Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert J. |
| Beale, W. P. | Cobbold, Felix Thornley | Glover, Thomas |
| Beauchamp, E. | Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W | Goddard, Daniel Ford |
| Beaumont, Hn. (W. C. B.) (H'x'm | Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grins'd | Gooch, George Peabody |
| Beck, A. Cecil | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Grant, Corrie |
| Bellairs, Carlyon | Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) |
| Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets. S. Goo. | Cox, Harold | Greenwood, Hamar (York) |
| Berridge, T. H. D. | Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward |
| Bertram, Julius | Cremer, William Randal | Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill |
| Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romf'd) | Crooks, William | Gulland, John W. |
| Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Crosfield, A. H. | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton |
| Billson, Alfred | Dalmeny, Lord | Hall, Frederick |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Dalziel, James Henry | Harcourt, Right Hon. Lewis |
| Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire | Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr T'dvil |
| Boland, John | Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) |
| Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Hart-Davies, T. |
| Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey) | Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S. | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Delany, William | Harwood, George |
| Brace, William | Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S. | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) |
| Bramsdon, T. A. | Dickinson, W. H.(St. Pancras, N. | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) |
| Branch, James | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Haworth, Arthur A. |
| Brigg, John | Donelan, Captain A. | Hazel, Dr. A. E. |
| Bright, J. A. | Duckworth, James | Hedges, A. Paget |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Duffy, William J. | Helme, Norval Watson |
| Brodie, H. C. | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness | Hemmerde, Edward George |
| Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) |
| Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T.(Chesh. | Dunn, A. Edward (Cam borne) | Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon. S |
| Bryce Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen) | Dunne, Major E. Martin (Wals'l | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) |
| Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Higham, John Sharp |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Edwards, Frank (Radnor) | Hobart, Sir Robert |
| Buekmaster, Stanley O. | Elibank, Master of | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward | Hodge, John |
| Hogan, Michael | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas | Sloan, Thomas Henry |
| Holden, E. Hopkinson | Murnaghan, George | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie |
| Holland, Sir William Henry | Murphy, John | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S. |
| Hooper, A. G. | Murray, James | Snowdon, P. |
| Horridge, Thomas Gardner | Myer, Horatio | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Hudson, Walter | Napier, T. B. | Soares, Ernest J. |
| Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Newnes, F Notts, (Bassetlaw) | Spicer, Sir Albert |
| Hyde, Clarendon | Newnes, Sir George (Swansea) | Stanger, H. Y. |
| Illingworth, Percy H. | Nicholls, George | Stanley, Hn A. Lyulph (Chesh. |
| Jacoby, James Alfred | Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r | Steadman, W. C. |
| Jenkins, J. | Nolan, Joseph | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) |
| Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) | Norman, Henry | Strachey, Sir Edward |
| Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) |
| Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Nussey, Thomas Willans | Stuart, James (Sunderland) |
| Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Nuttall, Harry | Sullivan, Donal |
| Jowett, F. W. | O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid | Summerbell, T. |
| Joyce, Michael | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) |
| Kearley, Hudson E. | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | Taylor, John W (Durham) |
| Kekewich, Sir George | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N. | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Kelley, George D. | O'Doherty, Philip | Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) |
| Kincaid-Smith, Captain | O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth) | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) |
| King, Alfred John (Knutsford) | O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon, N.) | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E. |
| Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James | O'Malley, William | Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr |
| Laidlaw, Robert | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E |
| Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster | Palmer, Sir Charles Mark | Thorne, William |
| Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) | Parker, James (Halifax) | Tomkinson, James |
| Lambert, George | Paul, Herbert | Torrance, Sir A. M. |
| Lamont, Norman | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) | Toulmin, George |
| Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W) | Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Layland-Barratt, Francis | Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton) | Verney, F. W. |
| Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington | Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) | Vivian, Henry |
| Lehmann, R. C. | Pickersgill, Edward Hare | Wadsworth, J. |
| Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich | Prire, Duncan V. | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose |
| Levy, Maurice | Pollard, Dr. | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) | Wallace, Robert |
| Lough, Thomas | Rainy, A. Rolland | Walsh, Stephen |
| Lundon, W. | Raphael, Herbert H. | Walters, John Tudor |
| Lupton, Arnold | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.) |
| Lyell, Charles Henry | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro') | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Lynch, H. B. | Redmond, John E. (Waterford | Ward, John (Stoke upon-Trent |
| Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghe | Redmond, William (Clare) | Ward, W. Dudley (South'mpt'n |
| Mackarness, Frederic C. | Rees, J. D. | Wardle, George J. |
| Maclean, Donald | Rendall, Ethelstan | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Renton, Major Leslie | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
| MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. | Richards, Thomas(W. Monm'th | Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney) |
| MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E. | Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n | Watt, H. Anderson |
| M'Crae, George | Richardson, A. | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| M'Kean, John | Rickett, J. Compton | Weir, James Galloway |
| M'Kenna, Reginald | Ridsdale, E. A. | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire |
| M'Killop W. | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| M'Micking, Major G. | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) | Whitehead, Rowland |
| Maddison, Frederick | Robertson, Rt. Hn. E.(Dundee) | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Markham, Arthur Basil | Robinson, S. | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n |
| Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston | Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry) | Roe, Sir Thomas | Williamson, A. |
| Massie, J. | Rogers, F. E. Newman | Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull, W. |
| Meagher, Michael | Rose, Charles Day | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.) |
| Menzies, Walter | Runciman, Walter | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Micklem, Nathaniel | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.) |
| Molteno, Percy Alport | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
| Money, L. G. Chiozza | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Montagu, E. S. | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Winfrey, R. |
| Montgomery, H. G. | Scott, A. H. (Ashton-under-Lyne | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Huddr'sf.) |
| Mooney, J. J. | Sears, J. E. | Young, Samuel |
| Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall) | Seely, Major J. B. | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Shackleton, David James | |
| Morley, Rt. Hon. John | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease. |
| Morrell, Philip | Shipman, Dr. John G. | |
| Morse, L. L. | Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John |
| NOES. | ||
| Anstruthor-Gray, Major | Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington |
| Ashley, W. W. | Doughty, Sir George | Percy, Earl |
| Balcarres, Lord | Duncan, Robt. (Lanark, Govan | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Faber, George Dension (York) | Randles, Sir John Scurrah |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn A. J. (City Lond.) | Fell, Arthur | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Forster, Henry William | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
| Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester) | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
| Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N. | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) |
| Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hamilton, Marquess of | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Boyle, Sir Edward | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Smith, F. E. (Liverpool, Walton |
| Bull, Sir William James | Hills, J. W. | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.) |
| Butcher, Samuel Henry | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W. | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Garlile, E. Hildred | Kimber, Sir Henry | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv. |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Liddell, Henry | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark) |
| Cave, George | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W. | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S. | Walker, Col. W. H.(Lancashire) |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid. |
| Chamberlain, Rt Hn. A. J. (Worc. | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Wilson, A. Stauley (York, E. R.) |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | M'Calmont, Colonel James | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birminghm | Magnus, Sir Philip | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Corbett, A. (Cameron (Glasgow) | Marks, H. H. (Kent) | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Courthope, G. Loyd | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | Younger, George |
| Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S. | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | |
| Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | Morpeth, Viscount | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood, and Viscount Valentia. |
| Craik, Sir Hennry | Muntz, Sir Philip A. | |
| Dalrymple, Viscount | Nield, Herbert |
§ Question put, "That the Question 'That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill be now put."
953§ Question put accordingly, "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."
954§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 362; Noes, 93. (Division List No. 349.)
957| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) | Bothell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Carr-Gomm, H. W. |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Billson, Alfred | Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Birroll, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Cawley, Frederick |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire | Chance, Frederick William |
| Alden, Percy | Boland, John | Cheetham, John Frederick |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E. | Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. |
| Ambrose, Robert | Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey) | Churchill, Winston Spencer |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Bowerman, C. W. | Clarke, C. Goddard |
| Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry | Brace, William | Cleland, J. W. |
| Astbury, John Meir | Bramsdon, T. A. | Clough, W. |
| Atherley-Jones L. | Branch, James | Clynes, J. R. |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Brigg, John | Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.) |
| Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury. E.) | Bright, J. A. | Cobbold, Felix Thornley |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Brocklehurst, W. B. | Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W |
| Barker, John | Brodie, H. C. | Corbett, C. H (Sussex, E. Grinst'd |
| Barlow, John Emmott (Somerset | Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. |
| Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Brimncr, Rt Hn. Sir J. T. (Chesh.) | Cotton, Sir H. J. S. |
| Barnard, E. B. | Bryce, Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen | Cox, Harold |
| Barnes, G. N. | Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs) | Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Cremer, William Randal |
| Beale, W. P. | Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Crooks, William |
| Beauchamp, E. | Burke, E. Haviland- | Crosfield, A. H. |
| Beaumont, Hn W. C. B.(Hexham | Burns, Rt. Hon John | Dalmeny, Lord |
| Beck, A. Cecil | Burnyeat, W. J. D. | Dalziel, James Henry |
| Bellairs, Carlyon | Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas. | Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) |
| Bonn, W. (T'w'rH'mlets, S. Geo. | Byles, William Pollard | Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan) |
| Berridge, T. H. D. | Cairns, Thomas | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) |
| Bertram, Julius | Cameron, Robert | Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) |
| Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford) | Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Delany, William |
| Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N. | Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Nuttall, Harry |
| Duckworth, James | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary, Md |
| Duffy, William J. | Jowett, F. W. | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Joyce, Michael | O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W.) |
| Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Kearley, Hudson E. | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Kekewich, Sir George | O'Doherty, Philip |
| Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall | Kelley, George D. | O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth) |
| Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Kincaid-Smith, Captain | O'Grady, J. |
| Edwards, Frank (Radnor) | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) | O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon, N.) |
| Elibank, Master of | Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James | O'Malley, William |
| Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward | Laidlaw, Robert | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Erskine, David C. | Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster) | Palmer, Sir Charles Mark |
| Esn onde, Sir Thomas | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) | Parver, James (Halifax) |
| Eve, Harry Trelawney | Lambert, George | Partington, Oswald |
| Everett, R. Lacey | Limont, Norman | Paul, Herbert |
| Faber, G. H. (Boston) | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek) |
| Fenwick, Charles | Layland-Barratt, Francis | Pearce, William (Limehouse) |
| Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington | Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'th'mpton |
| Field, William | Lehmann, R. C. | Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) |
| Fiennes, Hon. Eustace | Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Flynn, James Christopher | Levy, Maurice | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Lewis, John Herbert | Pollard, Dr. |
| Freeman-Thomas, Freeman | Lundon, W. | Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central) |
| Fuller, John Michael F. | Lupton, Arnold | Rainy, A. Rolland |
| Fullerton, Hugh | Lyell, Charles Henry | Raphael, Herbert H. |
| Gardner, Col. Alan (Hereford, S. | Lynch, H. B. | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) |
| Gibb, James (Harrow) | Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro) |
| Gill, A. H. | Mackarness, Frederic C. | Redmond, John E.(Waterford) |
| Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John | Maclean, Donald | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Glover, Thomas | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Rees, J. D. |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Grant, Coirie | MacVeigh, Chas, (Donegal, E.) | Renton, Major Leslie |
| Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | M'Crae, George | Richards, Thos. (W. Monm'th) |
| Greenwood, Hamar (York) | M'Kean, John | Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n) |
| Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward | M'Kenna, Reginald | Richardson, A. |
| Guest, Hon Ivor Churchill | M'Killop, W. | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Gulland, John W. | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) | Ridsdale, E. A. |
| Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | M'Micking, Major G. | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Maddison, Frederick | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Hall, Frederick | Mallet, Charles E. | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis | Manfield, Harry (Northants) | Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee) |
| Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil) | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln) | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) | Markham, Arthur Basil | Robinson, S. |
| Hart-Davies, T. | Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston) | Robson, Sir William Snowdon |
| Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry) | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Harwood, George | Massie, J. | Rogers, F. E. Newman |
| Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Masterman, C. F. G. | Rose, Charles Day |
| Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Meagher, Michael | Runciman, Walter |
| Haworth, Arthur A. | Menziesy Walter | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) |
| Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Micklem, Nathaniel | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) |
| Hedges, A. Paget | Molteno, Percy Alport | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) |
| Helme, Norval Watson | Money, L. G. Chiozza | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) |
| Hemmerde, Edward George | Montagu, E. S. | Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester) |
| Hendersot, Arthur (Durham) | Montgomery, H. G. | Scott, A. H. (Ashton-und.-Lyne) |
| Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.) | Mooney, J. J. | Sears, J. E. |
| Herbert, T Arnold (Wycombe) | Morgan, G. Hay. (Cornwall) | Seely, Major J. B. |
| Higham, John Sharp | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Shackleton, David James |
| Hobart, Sir Robert | Morrell, Philip | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B. |
| Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | Morse, L. L. | Shipman, Dr. John G. |
| Hodge, John | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas | Sinclair, Rt. Hn. John |
| Hogan, Michael | Murnaghan, George | Sloan, Thomas Henry |
| Holden, E. Hopkinson | Murphy, John | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie |
| Holland, Sir William Henry | Murray, James | Smyth Thos. F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Hooper, A. G. | Myer, Horatio | Snowden, P. |
| Horridge, Thomas Gardner | Napier, T. B. | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Hudson, Walter | Newnes, F. (Notts, Bassetlaw) | Soares, Ernest J. |
| Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Newnes, Sir George (Swansea) | Spicer, Sir Albert |
| Hyde, Clarendon | Nicholls, George | Stanger, H. Y. |
| Illingworth, Percy H. | Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r) | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) |
| Jacoby, James Alfred | Nolan, Joseph | Steadman, W. C. |
| Jenkins, J. | Norman, Henry | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) |
| Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | Wadsworth, J. | Whitehead, Rowland |
| Strachey, Sir Edward | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) | Williams, J (Glamorgan) |
| Stuart, James (Sunderland) | Wallace, Robert | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmar'n |
| Sullivan, Donal | Walsh, Stephen | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Summerbell, T. | Walters, John Tudor | Williamson, A. |
| Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.) | Wilson, Hon. C. H. W. (Hull. W.) |
| Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R. |
| Tailor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton | Wilson, J. W. (Worcest'rsh, N.) |
| Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) | Wardle, George J. | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
| Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) | Winfrey, R. |
| Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E | Wason, John Catheart (Orkney | Woodhouse, Sir J T (Hud'rsf'd |
| Thorne, William | Watt, H Anderson | Young, Samuel |
| Torrance, Sir A. M. | Wedgwood, Josiah C. | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Toulmin, George | Weir, James Galloway | |
| Trevelyan, Charles Philips | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease |
| Verney, F. W. | White, Luke (York., E. R.) | |
| Vivian, Henry | White, Patrick (Meath, North) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Anstruther-Gray, Major | Dalrymple, Viscount | Nield, Herbert |
| Ashley, W. W. | Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darling'n) |
| Balcarres, Lord | Doughty, Sir George | Percy, Earl |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Duncan, Robert (Lanark, G'v'n | Randles, Sir John Scurrah |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond. | Faber, George Denison (York) | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Fell, Arthur | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
| Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester) | Forster, Henry William | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
| Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.) | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) |
| Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hamilton, Marquess of | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'd) | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) |
| Boyle, Sir Edward | Harrison-Broad Icy, Col. H. B. | Smith, F. E. (Liverpool, Walton) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Bull, Sir William James | Kennaway, Rt Hon Sir John H. | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.) |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W. | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Butcher, Samuel Henry | Kimber, Sir Henry | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ. |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark) |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Liddell, Henry | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Cave, George | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C. W. | Lond, Col. Charles W. (Evesh'm | Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S. | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.) |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E. | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Wilson, A. Stanley (York. E. R.) |
| Chamberlain, Rt Hn. J. A. (Wore. | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thus. H. A. E. | M'Calmont, Colonel James | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart |
| Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birmingh'm | Magnus, Sir Philip | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Marks, H. H. (Kent) | Younger, George |
| Courthope, G. Loyd | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | |
| Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S. | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood und Viscount Valentia. |
| Craig, Captain James (Down, E. | Morpeth, Viscount | |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Muntz, Sir Philip A. |
§ Clause 2:—
§ MR. COURTHOPEsaid he wished to move the omission of all the words in sub-section 1, after the word "vote" on line 16, so as to make the sub-section apply to all voters. He did so for this principal reason, that during the last hour or two before the close of the poll in a contested election there was almost invariably a great rush of voters, and frequently confusion resulted. He 958 thought it would be much better if I the question contained in the schedule of the Bill should be asked of all voters instead of only those who had selected to vote in that constituency. It appeared to him that a person who had failed to select, and whose name was on the register might easily vote under this section in more than one constituency without having any question asked him at all.
*THE CHAIRMANruled that the Amendment was out of order, as if carried it would contravene the provisions of Clause 1.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINinquired if the Chairman had in his mind that a promise was given by the Minister in charge of the Bill that the schedule should be altered.
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. ASQTJITH,) Fifeshire, E.The right hon. Gentleman has denied it.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid the promise was that the schedule should be altered and put in an entirely different form.
*THE CHAIRMANsaid he could not take into account promises which were said to have been made in regard to a matter which could have only a subsequent effect upon the Bill.
§ MR. COURTHOPEasked the Chairman if he had in his mind the case of an elector who had failed to select.
*THE CHAIRMANsaid he had explained very carefully why the hon. Member was out of order, and that was the only thing he had in his mind and the only thing he ought to have in his mind.
§ MR. FORSTER (Kent, Sevenoaks)said that after what had been said it would require very few words from him to place before the Committee two Amendments which he desired to move. The first was in line 15, to leave out the word "unless" and insert "if." Tie had another Amendment on the Paper in the next line to leave out "negative" and insert "affirmative." He thought the clause thus altered would read better.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 15, to leave out the word 'unless,' and to insert the word 'if.'"—(Air. Forster.)
Question proposed, "That the word 'unless' stand part of the clause.
§ MR. ASQUITHaccepted this Amendment on behalf of the Government, as he thought it would be a distinct improvement. He also thought that the substitution of the word "affirmative" for "negative" was desirable.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2 line 6, to leave out the word 'negative,' and insert the word 'affirmative.'" —(Mr. Forster.)
§ Agreed to.
§ SIR E. CARSON (Dublin University)said the Amendment which he had to move provided for the case where a voter had sent in a notice of selection but it had not reached the town clerk or the clerk to the county council, with the result that the proper mark did not appear opposite to his name. His point was that if the voter asserted that he had sent a notice of selection to the town clerk, notwithstanding the fact that it had not reached the town clerk, he should be allowed to vote. Otherwise although an elector had done everything that the statute required him to do he would be disfranchised. He therefore desired after the word "vote" in line 16, to insert "unless he states to the presiding officer that he has sent a notice in accordance with the provisions of the first section of this Act." In many cases the notice would certainly go astray, and if the voter asserted that he had sent this notice he ought to be allowed to vote.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 16, after the word 'vote,' to insert the words 'unless he states to the presiding officer that he has sent a notice in accordance with the provisions of the first section of this Act.'"—(Sir E. Carson.)
§ Question proposed, "That these words be there inserted."
§ MR. ASQUITHsaid he could not accept this Amendment. In the first place, if it was introduced at all it was out of place in the present section; it should have been introduced into the first section. The question put to the elector had nothing to do with the qualification. In the second place, such a scheme would 961 be impossible to work and would lead to enormous confusion, because it meant that the presiding officer was not to be bound by what appeared on the register, but by an unsupported statement made by the voter. He was quite unable to accept such a proposal.
§ LORD R. CECILsaid he should certainly vote for the Amendment if it was pressed to a division, although after the Amendment which had just been accepted this proposal became less important.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsupported the Amendment, and pointed out the hardship which would be entailed if a voter who had taken all the necessary steps was debarred from voting. Supposing a man resided in Northumberland and had a vote in one of the southern counties; he could not see the register in the southern county, and it appeared to be contemplated that in the event of an election, he, knowing that he had made a selection, should travel from North to South and when he reached the constituency, although he had received an acknowledgment, he might find that through the negligence or misconduct of the clerk or of the person printing the register, the proper mark had not been attached to his name. That was the point of his right hon. friend's Amendment, and it had not been dealt with by the Chancellor of the Exchequer at all.
§ MR. ASQUITHsaid the argument of the right hon. Gentleman did not affect the question at all. It was quite true that an occurrence of this kind might happen, but the voter would have right of action against the clerk who was negligent or malicious. It was desirable that the presiding officer should be able to say "Here is the register, and I cannot go behind it."
| AYES. | ||
| Ashley, W. W. | Boyle, Sir Edward | Cecil, Lord B. (Marylebone, E. |
| Balcarres, Lord | Bridgeman, W. Clive | Chamberlain, Rt Hn. J. A. (Worc. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond. | Butcher, Samuel Henry | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Carlile, E. Hildred | Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Biriningh'm |
| Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N. | Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) |
| Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Castlereagh, Viscount | Courthope, G. Loyd |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C. W | Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Craik, Sir Henry |
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDhoped that the right hon. Gentleman would assent to the Amendment, because very great hardship would be inflicted if a voter found that owing to some clerical error or mistake it was impossible for him to vote.
§ MR. DALZIEL (Kirkcaldy Burghs)said it was very interesting to see the anxiety of hon. Members opposite that nobody should be left off the register. Their enthusiasm in regard to the votes of the poorer classes was still more remarkable. If a man were able to go in to a polling booth and upon his mere statement that he had sent a letter be allowed to vote, it would open the door to all kinds of fraud and make the Bill practically useless. He saw no reason whatever for the Amendment.
§ SIR E. CARSONdid not think that the hon. Member had followed the discussions on the Bill. This was not a case of disfranchising a man who had a single vote, but of disfranchising a man who had two or three votes. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had said that the presiding officer should be bound by the register, but that was not the right hon. Gentleman's Bill, because under it the register was not conclusive, as the presiding officer had to put a question to the voter. The real difficulty of this Bill was that the register was not going to be conclusive. The point of the Opposition all along had been that once a man was on the register he ought to be able to vote, but in consequence of the clumsy machinery of the Government, thousands of electors would be disfranchised. He should certainly ask the Committee to divide on this Amendment.
§ Question put.
§ The Committee divided:—Aves, 83; Noes, 321. (Division List No. 350.)
965| Dalrymple, Viscount | Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich) | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Doughty, Sir George | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham) | Smith, F. E. (Liverpool, Walton) |
| Duncan, Robert (Lanark, G'V'n) | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.) | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Faber, George Denison (York) | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh) |
| Pell, Arthur | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | M'Calmont, Colonel James | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Forster, Henry William | Magnus, Sir Philip | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark) |
| Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Marks, H. H. (Kent) | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Haddock, George R. | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Hamilton, Marquess of | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire) |
| Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'd) | Morpeth, Viscount | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.) |
| Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Muntz, Sir Philip A. | Wilson, A. Stanley (York. E. R.) |
| Hay, Hon. Claude George | Nield, Herbert | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlingt'n) | Wortley, Rt. Hon C. B. Stuart- |
| Hills, J. W. | Percy, Earl | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Houston, Robert Paterson | Randles, Sir John Scurrah | Younger, George |
| Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H. | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel | |
| Kimber, Sir Henry | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia. |
| Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert | |
| Lane-Fox, G. R. | Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) |
| NOES | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) | Burnyeat, W. J. D. | Ferens, T. R. |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles | Ferguson, R. C. Munro |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Byles, William Pollard | Field, William |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Cairns, Thomas | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace |
| Alden, Percy | Ca'neron, Robert | Flynn, James Christopher |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Fuller, John Michael F. |
| Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry | Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Fullerton, Hugh |
| Astbury, John Meir | Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight | Gibb, James (Harrow) |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Cawley, Frederick | Gill, A. H. |
| Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) | Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. | Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Churchill, Winston Spencer | Glover, Thomas |
| Barker, John | Clarke, C. Goddard | Grant, Corrie |
| Barlow, John Emmott (S'm'rs't | Cleland, J. W. | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) |
| Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Clough, W. | Gulland, John W. |
| Barnard, E. B. | Clynes, J. R. | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.) | Hall, Frederick |
| Beale, W. P. | Cobbold, Felix Thornley | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis |
| Beauchamp, E. | Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras W. | Hardy, George A. (Suffolk) |
| Beaumont, Hn. W. C. B. (Hex'm) | Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r |
| Beck, A. Cecil | Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grnst'd | Hart-Davies, T. |
| Bell, Richard | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) |
| Bellairs, Carlyon | Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Harwood, George |
| Benn, Sir J. Williams (D'v'np rt | Carig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) |
| Bonn, W. (T'w'r H'ml'ts. S. Geo. | Cremer, William Randal | Haslant, Lewis (Monmouth) |
| Berridge, T. H. D. | Crosfield, A. H. | Haworth, Arthur A. |
| Bertram, Julius | Dalziel, James Henry | Hedges, A. Paget |
| Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford) | Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Helme, Norval Watson |
| Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Hcmmerde, Edward George |
| Billson, Alfred | Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Delany, William | Henry, Charles S. |
| Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire | Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon. S.) |
| Boland, John | Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N. | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) |
| Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Higham, John Sharp |
| Bottomley, Horatio | Ponelan, Captain A. | Hobart, Sir Robert |
| Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey) | Duckworth, James | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. |
| Brace, William | Duffy, William J. | Hogan, Michael |
| Bramsdon, T. A. | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Holden, E. Hopkinson |
| Branch, James | Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Holland, Sir William Henry |
| Brigg, John | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Hooper, A. G. |
| Bright, J. A. | Dunne, Major E. Martin (Wals'l) | Horniman, Emslie John |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Horridge, Thomas Gardner |
| Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Edwards, Frank (Radnor) | Hudson, Walter |
| Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T. (Ches.) | Elibank, Master of | Hyde, Clarendon |
| Bryce, Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen) | Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward | Idris, T. H. W. |
| Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs) | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Illingworth, Percy H. |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Eve, Harry Trelawney | Isaacs, Rufus Daniel |
| Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Everett, R. Lacey | Jackson, R. S. |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Faber, G. H. (Boston) | Jaceby, James Alfred |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Fenwick, Charles | Jenkins, J. |
| Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) | Newnes, R (Notts, Bassotlaw) | Simon, John Allsebrook |
| Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea) | Newnes, Sir George (Swansea) | Sinclain, Rt. Hon. John |
| Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Nicholls, George | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie |
| Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Nolan, Joseph | Smith, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Jowett, F. W. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Snowden, P. |
| Joyce, Michael | Nussey, Thomas Willans | Soares, Ernest J. |
| Kearley, Hudson E. | Nuttall, Harry | Stanger, H. Y. |
| Kekewich, Sir George | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipper'ry Mid) | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) |
| Kelley, George D. | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) |
| Kincaid-Smith, Captain | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) |
| King, Alfred John (Knutsford) | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Strachey, Sir Edward |
| Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James | O'Doherty, Philip | Stuart, James (Sunderland) |
| Laidlaw, Robert | O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth) | Sullivan, Donal |
| Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster) | O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N. | Summerbell, T. |
| Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) | O'Malley, William | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Lambert, George | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Lamont, Norman | Parker, James (Halifax) | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E) |
| Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Partington, Oswald | Thoams, David Alfred (M'rth'r) |
| Layland-Barratt, Francis | Paul, Herbert | Thompson, J. W. H. (Somers't, E. |
| Lehmann, R. C. | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) | Tomkinson, James |
| Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich) | Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Torrance, Sir A. W. |
| Levy, Maurice | Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thanpton) | Verney, F. W. |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Pickersgill, Edward Hare | Wadsworth, J. |
| Lundon, W. | Pirie, Duncan V. | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose |
| Lupton, Arnold | Pollard, Dr. | Walsh, Stephen |
| Lyell, Charles Henry | Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central | Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.) |
| Lynch, H. B. | Radford, G. H. | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs) | Rainy, A. Rolland | Ward, John(Stoke-upon Trent) |
| Mackarness, Frederic C. | Raphael, Herbert H. | Ward, W. Dudley(S'thampton) |
| Maclean, Donald | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Wardle, George |
| Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro') | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney |
| MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.) | Redmond, William (Clare) | Waterlow, D. S. |
| M'Crae, George | Rees, J. D. | Watt, H. Anderson |
| M'Kenna, Heginald | Rendall, Athelstan | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| M'Killop, W. | Renton, Major Leslin | Weir, James Galloway |
| M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) | Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'th) | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
| M'Micking, Major G. | Richardson, A. | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Maddison, Frederick | Rickett, J. Compton | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Manfield, Harry (Northants) | Ridsdale, E. A. | Whitehead, Rowland |
| Mansfield H. Rendall (Lincoln) | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Markham, Arthur Basil | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) | Wiles, Thomas |
| Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston) | Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee) | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Massie, J. | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Williams, Llewelyn (Carim'rth'n) |
| Meagher, Michael | Robinson, S. | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Menzies, Walter | Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Wills, Arthur Walters |
| Micklem, Nathaniel | Roe, Sir Thomas | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.) |
| Moteno, Percy Alport | Rogers, F. E. Newman | Wilsor, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Money, L. G. Chiozza | Rose, Charles Day | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
| Montagu, E. S. | Runciman, Walter | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton |
| Mooney, J. J. | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
| Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall) | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hud'rsf'd) |
| Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Young, Samuel |
| Morrell, Philip | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Morton, Alpheus Cleophas | Scott, A. H. (Ashton under-Lyne | |
| Murnaghan, George | Sears, J. E. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease. |
| Murphy, John | Seely, Major J. B. | |
| Murray, James | Shackleton, David James | |
| Myer, Horatio | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.) | |
| Napier, T. B. | Shipman, Dr. John G. |
§ MR. SAMUEL ROBERTS (Sheffield, Ecelesall), in moving to insert the following proviso:—"Provided always that the presiding officer shall not give into custody any person charged with personation unless such person has actually voted," said the Committee would be aware that under the Parliamentary Voters Registration Act of 1843 it was the 966 duty of the returning officer to give into custody any person charged with personation, and that by Section 63 of the Ballot Act to ask for a voting paper was to be deemed to be equivalent to voting. Therefore, unless some Amendment similar to that which he now proposed was curried the result would be that any plural voter would be liable to this 967 penalty. The Bill was drastic enough in all conscience, but he and those who sat with him thought this penalty was far too severe. They held that a voter in such a case ought not to be given into custody unless he had actually voted. He hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be of opinion that it was too severe a thing to give a man into custody simply because he had asked for a voting paper. He begged to move.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 21, at end, to insert the words 'Provided always that the presiding officer shall not give into custody any person charged with personation unless such person has actually voted.'"—(Mr. Samuel Roberts.)
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ MR. ASQUITHsaid he was under the impression that his right hon. friend the First Commissioner of Works had already promised to provide for this case. But whether that was so or not he agreed with the hon. Gentleman that it ought to be provided for. These words, however, were a little too wide. He understood the sole object of the hon. Gentleman was to prevent the person being given into custody for personation under this Act.
§ MR. SAMUEL ROBERTSYes.
§ MR. ASQUITHThen his words must be limited by the insertion of the words "under this Act." In that form, subject to what his right hon. friend proposed to do, he would accept the Amendment.
§ MR. SAMUEL ROBERTSThen, Mr. Eminott, I will move it in that form.
§
Amendment to the proposed Amendment—
After the word 'personation' to insert the words 'under this Act.' "—(Mr. Samuel Roberts.)—
§ Question proposed, "That those words, as amended, be there added."
MR. STANLEY WILSONasked whether the Amendment would cover the following case. A plural voter entered a polling booth and asked for a 968 ballot paper, after which the personating agent requested the presiding officer to put the question in the schedule. Immediately the man answered the question in the affirmative that he was a plural voter he at once committed an offence under the Act. There would be many plural voters who would never perhaps have heard of this Bill. Would this Amendment cover the case he had referred to?
§ MR. ASQUITHYes. Question put, and agreed to.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid his object in moving to leave out the words "Section 81 of "at the beginning of sub-section (2) was merely to call attention to the fact that the right hon. Gentleman would have to amend this clause in some drastic manner, or else it would be absolute nonsense in working. The Parliamentary Voters Registration Act, 1843, only extended to England and Wales, and the enactments amending the same would neither make that Act nor any part of it apply either to Scotland or to Ireland.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 22, to leave out the words," Section eighty-one of.'"—(Mr. William Rutherford.)
§ Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the clause."
§ SIR W. ROBSONsaid Section 81 of the Parliamentary Voters' Registration Act was to be applied to this Bill, and would be given the whole scope of this Bill. The mere fact that Section 81 of the Parliamentary Voters' Registration Act did not apply to Ireland did not affect the matter here, so long as they incorporated it with the Bill and afterwards made the Bill apply to Ireland
§ SIR F. BANBURYasked whether the hon. Gentleman was correct in saying that it did not apply to Ireland or Scotland, because, if so, he should think a good many Members on the Opposition side would go to reside in one of those countries.
§ LORD R. CECILsaid it did not appear to him that the effect of the clause would be such as the Solicitor-General had described. The Act of 1843 was not to be read into this Bill but the question raised here was to be read into the Act mentioned.
§ SIR E. CARSONsaid if it were merely that the Act did not apply to Ireland or Scotland he would agree with the Solicitor-General that they might incorporate a section of it applicable to the three countries, but when the section incorporated only made provision for England and Wales, by the very incorporation they accepted the limitation in the section itself. How, then, could the Solicitor-General argue in that case that the section would be applicable to an Act which was going to apply to the three countries? The plain construction would be that his provision only applied when the election was being carried on in England or Wales.
§ SIR W. ROBSONsaid that as it was suggested there might be some ambiguity about the matter the Government would reconsider the point.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDasked leave to withdraw his Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ MR. H. H. MARKS(Kent, Thanet) moved an Amendment, to provide that a voter must "knowingly" give a false answer in order to be guilty of an illegal practice within the meaning of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Prevention Act, 1883. It might be said that the word "knowingly" was not required, as knowledge was implied by the word "false." But the latter term had a colloquial meaning, and it might be held to have such meaning here. The word "knowingly" had been inserted in the first sub-section of Clause 1, and by an Amendment carried this afternoon the word had been inserted in the third sub-section of Clause 1. Therefore, if "knowingly" were not inserted in Clause, 2 it would very naturally lead to the impression that it had been designedly and for some special purpose omitted. Recent decisions in the law 970 courts had turned upon the omission of qualifying words in one part of an Act, particularly where qualifying words had appeared in another part of the Act.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 26, after the word 'voter,' to insert the word 'knowingly.' "—(Mr. H. H. Marks.)
Question proposed—" That the word 'knowingly' be there inserted.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid the Government had powdered this Bill with the word "knowingly," and he had no objection tor another shake of the bottle, so that this Amendment might be included; but he would also wish to accept the succeeding Amendment standing in the name of the hon. Member for the Ecclesall Division of Sheffield which contained words constantly associated with the word "knowingly," namely, "and with intention to evade the provisions of this Act."
§ MR. SAMUEL ROBERTSsaid the would move to add to the Amendment the words "and with intention to evade the provisions of this Act."
§
Amendment, to the proposed Amendment—
To add the words 'and with intention to evade the provisions of this Act.'
§ Agreed to.
§ Amendment as amended, agreed to.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN moved to insert the following sub-section: "If any person attempts to prevent a registered elector from voting by threats of proceedings under this Act, without having good reason to believe that the voter is disqualified by the provisions of the Act, he shall be guilty of an illegal practice within the meaning of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Act, 1883." He said that he feared an attempt would be made by unscrupulous persons to deter men who were really entitled to vote from voting, under threat of the very heavy penalties imposed by this Bill. There were the admitted cases of men who had more than one qualification, and whose names by an oversight had been left on a list in a constituency in which they had ceased to be qualified. What 971 was to prevent an unscrupulous Party agent, who saw a voter who had just moved into the constituency and was going to the poll, from drawing a bow at a venture, and saying, "You are registered in more than one constituency, and as you have made no selection you are not entitled to vote. I have warned you, and if you vote you will be doing it knowingly and with intention to evade the provisions of this statute, the penalty for which is two years hard labour and seven years deprivation of all civil rights?" It might be argued that a good and strong returning officer would not allow that kind of bullying to take place within the polling booth, but there were returning officers of all sorts—many of them not strong men, many, perhaps, not with any great knowledge of election practice, and he thought there would be a real danger of voters actually entitled to a vote being bluffed out of their right to exercise it. But it was on the eve of an election that an agent or canvasser might find that a number of persons who were probably plural voters were hostile to his side, and he might determine to stop their voting. He might go round and say, "You are probably on the register in the place you have removed from. You vote at your peril—if you vote we will prosecute you." It was impossible for them to find out whether they were on the register or not. In that way Party agents might succeed in striking off votes which might have been given against them. The only doubt he had in his mind was whether the penalty he had included was sufficient for the offence, having regard to what the Government considered requisite in other cases. To prevent a man who was entitled to vote from voting was a much graver offence than the one which had been created under this Bill. Under the section which he proposed to import the penalty was £100 fine. If the right hon. Gentleman would put in a heavier penalty he would support him. He begged to move the Amendment stand-in his name on the Paper.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 29, at end, to insert the words, '(3) If any person attempts to prevent a registered elector from voting by threats of proceedings under this Act, without having good
972
reason to believe that the voter is disqualified by the provisions of the Act, he shall be guilty of an illegal practice within the meaning of The Corrupt and Illegal Practices Act, 1883.' "— (Mr. Austen Chamberlain.)
Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid he agreed with the general view taken by the right hon. Gentleman, and certainly an agent who did a trick like that deserved punishment. But the case was already covered by Section 2 of the Corrupt Practices Act, which provided punishment for restraining voters from voting by fraudulent devices or contrivances and using undue influence. Those were offences punishable by the same penalties which the right hon. Gentleman had suggested. He was under the impression that the section he had quoted dealt with the right hon. Gentleman's case, but if it was thought necessary to take legal opinion upon it he would do so.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid he accepted the right hon. Gentleman's statement of the law entirely, but he was not quite certain that the effect of this section would be the same an the section he proposed in his Amendment. If a vote was challenged he thought the challenger should be bound to show that the voter had voted, and it should not rest with somebody else to show that the challenge was fraudulent. He desired to put the onus of proof upon the man who challenged the vote. If the Solicitor-General would say that that was the effect of the section which the right hon. Gentleman had quoted he was satisfied. If it was not he appealed to the Government to take that line. Surely it was not unreasonable, where some one was trying to prevent a man from exercising a right he was entitled to exercise, to insist that he should show that he had good reasons for challenging the vote.
§ SIR W. ROBSONsaid he did not think the Amendment would carry out the purpose the right hon. Gentleman had in view. It was against the principle of our law to put the onus of proof upon a defendant.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid the Amendment was intended to prevent 973 people from attempting to stop from voting those who were legitimately entitled to vote at the election. It was only the second part of the sub-section that referred to the prevention of the free exercise of the franchise and the word "attempts" or "threats" did not apply to that part of the section at all. Therefore it was clear that if this Bill was to become law there ought to be some protection against circulars being sent out wholesale on the night before the election pointing out that the Act contained very serious penalties affecting plural voters. It would be admitted that there ought to be some provision to prevent that kind of thing being done, and to prevent electors being interfered with on the eve of the poll. So far as the Amendment made it an offence to send out such a communication as he had described it would only be carrying out the express desires of the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill if the Committee accepted it. He thought they ought to have some further assurance that this very grave difficulty would be adequately met.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid if on the day before the poll an agent suggested to working men electors who had migrated from another district that if they voted they might unconsciously break the law, that would be a fair warning, and it could not be proved that it was intimidation or corruption. He respectfully suggested that the Government should make the Committee fully acquainted with the facts before rashly asserting that a personation agent in the polling booth would not act in the way his right hon. friend had indicated. It might be said that it was intimidation, but it might also be said that the agent or canvasser who gave a voter a warning was only doing his best to see that the law was carried out. The voter taken by surprise would say, "It is quite true; I do not know whether I have a vote in the place I left last year." He did not see how they could get over that. If any way of avoiding that difficulty could be found it ought to be put in the Bill. It was not intimidation or corruption. It was not anything which was touched in my Act of Parliament which had been passed, or any Act which they could pass. 974 It was a difficulty, in Ins opinion, inherent in the Bill. He could not see any adequate remedy.
§ MR.HARCOURTsaid the Leader of the Opposition had introduced apparently a new question. He reminded the right hon. Gentleman that the real grievance of the working man who moved from one constituency to another was that he was often deprived of his vote anywhere. If the right hon. Gentleman, while he was in office, had done anything to assist in removing that grievance, something might be said for his solicitude for the working man voter now. He thought there would, be very few cases in which the difficulty to which the right hon. Gentleman had referred would arise, and possibly it would never arise at all.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid the question of the qualification of voters had nothing to do with this Bill. He did not see why the right hon. Gentleman should introduce that topic in attempting to deal with a complaint raised by his own friends.
§ MR. ARTHUR HENDERSON (Durham, Barnard Castle)sincerely hoped that this Amendment would not be disregarded. The right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill seemed to him to treat very lightly the case of the working man plural voter. It was, however, quite a common thing for a working man to be a plural voter. A voter in one constituency removed very often into an adjoining constituency in the month of June, and was most probably left on the old list. The overseer was aware that the voter was entitled to carry his county council vote with him, and therefore put him down in Division 1 of the list. Unless the opposing agent noticed this and took steps to have only the county council vote retained he remained on Division 1 and became a Parliamentary voter for two constituencies. Moreover, it would be to the interest of the opposing agent to leave this man on the register. Hitherto it had been his interest to have him taken off. This was a genuine case and was very prevalent in industrial or mining counties, where the voter from the exigencies of his 975 employment might have to remove very frequently. He hoped some change would be made in the Bill which would prevent the possibility of a not too scrupulous agent scaring a voter from exercising the franchise.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid he did not oppose the Amendment because he disagreed with its object, but because he believed the point was dealt with under the present law. He agreed that it was important to prevent agents from intimidating or alarming voters on the night before the poll. If he was not absolutely satisfied that the present law covered it, he would see that words were inserted to meet the point.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid that the right hon. Gentleman had stated that if any gap existed in the situation he would make that gap good; but the right hon. Gentleman could not resist the temptation to have a fling at the Leader of the Opposition, and so he belittled the number of people who were liable to be subject to that intimidation against which the Amendment was directed. He hoped after what had been said by the hon. Member for the Barnard Castle Division, following on speeches delivered from other quarters, the right hon. Gentleman would recognise that there was a very large class for whom this Bill must provide, otherwise a great injustice would be done to them. Of course, the Bill would throw on agents and party organisations a much more complicated task than they had hitherto had; but they could not rely on any party organisation to take up the work which only the Government could do completely. In his own constituency he ventured to say that the Liberal Party made practically no appearance in the registration courts, and took no steps to induce a person to qualify himself to be put on the register. The agent did not, as a rule, challenge any man on the register, because the chances were that four out of five of them would vote for his side. What was the good, therefore, of relying on the party agent to keep the register pure, or to remove from the register a man who had gone into a neighbouring constituency. He hoped the right hon. 976 Gentleman in charge of the Bill would meet the case covered by the Amendment, and the case which would be put latter on by the Leader of the Opposition.
§ CAPTAIN CRAIG (Down, E.)said he quite concurred with the hon. Member for the Barnard Castle Division as to the frequency of the cases in which working men were found to be plural voters, because there were large numbers of cases where working men from the shipyards on the Clyde were constantly moving across to Belfast and then returning, and thus being placed on the register in two constituencies. He suggested that the method adopted to avoid that danger should be made as simple as possible, and he considered that the end would be attained if it was made compulsory on the parties to an election to print the necessary warning against the offence of voting in two constituencies on the unofficial election cards sent out to all voters.
SIR FREDERICK BARBURYthought the suggestion made by the hon. and gallant Member might be given effect to in the schedule, as it was a perfectly good one.
§ MR. WALTER LONGsaid that his right hon. friend the Member for East Worcestershire, who had left the House, had told him that he was satisfied with the assurance given by the right hon. Gentleman, and had asked him to withdraw his Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Clause, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 3:—
§ CAPTAIN CRAIGsaid he wished to move the Amendment standing in the name of the hon. Member for South Antrim to omit from the second and third lines of Clause 3, the words "and as respects Ireland under Section 3 of the Parliamentary Registration (Ireland) Act, 1885."
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid he could not possibly accept the Amendment.
§
Amendment proposed—
To leave out the words, 'And as respects Ireland under Section 3 of the Parliamentary Registration (Ireland) Act, 1885'"—
§ Amendment negatived.
§ MR. COURTHOPEsaid he wished to move the Amendment standing in his name, which, with all due deference, he thought, was not controversial, viz., to leave out from line 39 the words "selecting any constituency as his voting constituency," and insert "whose name appears on the register of more than one constituency."
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid, on a point of order, that the point raised by the hon. Gentleman's Amendment had been decided long ago.
§ MR. COURTHOPEsaid that he had no recollection of that.
THE CHAIRMANsaid it had already been decided that a person selecting any constituency as his voting constituency was to be marked.
§ MR. RAWLINSONsaid he did not remember the point ever having been raised as to whether some other distinctive mark might not be made.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Clause 3 stand part of the Bill."
§ SIR FREDERICK BANBURYsaid he had understood from the right non. Gentleman in charge of the Bill that a person could select his constituency in any way he liked; that was to say, he might send in a sheet of paper, upon which he wrote that he desired, say, to vote at Bristol, and that no question would be raised as to the validity of that selection because the form of selection was not prescribed by the Order in Council. As he read this clause, however, the Order in Council would be paramount and that would over-rule the understanding which had been arrived at with the right hon. Gentleman.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid he had undertaken that the Order in Council should prescribe a form.
§ SIR FREDERICK BANBURYBut it is optional?
§ MR. HARCOURTOh, yes it is quite optional.
§ SIR FREDERICK BANBURYBut it is not optional under this clause. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will make it right later on?
§ MR. HARCOURTI will see that it is so. I am responsible for that sort of thing.
§ SIR FREDERICK BANBURYPer haps the right hon. Gentleman is responsible for the first Order in Council, but another Minister may alter it.
§ MR. HARCOURTThere is not a word in the Bill which would make the use of the form mandatory.
§ SIR WILLIAM BULL (Hammersmith)complained that they had not before them the scheme which was to be included in the Order in Council. Time after time the right hon. Gentleman had taken refuge in the fact that these matters would be alluded to in the Order in Council and had stated that under the Order in Council he would make certain arrangements under which the voter might select any place he chose in which to vote, but it passed the wit of man to see how that could be done. In the course of the discussion they had seen how closely the time was packed from the 15th of July till the 12th of October, and he wished to have an explanation of some of the difficulties which would arise under this Bill. Was the right hon. Gentleman going to have a supplementary list? How could he alter the list when once it had been signed and printed and had become the register coming into effect on the 1st of September? How was the right hon. Gentleman going to deal with the case of a man who had selected a particular vote and that vote had been taken away from him? Throughout the debates on the Bill, those who were interested in registration matters had been hampered very much by not knowing the scheme of the 979 right hon. Gentleman. They had had many explanations which were extremely ingenious, but the main difficulty of altering the register after it had been signed seemed to him to be insuperable. The right hon. Gentleman might, it was true, obtain an Order in Council to have a supplementary register, but there were difficulties in the way. It was a question whether the revising barrister would not have to sit again, and he thought that if these selection forms had had to come before the revising barrister as other claims had to come, it would have simplified the procedure of the Bill. If that procedure had been adopted than the register could have been dealt with once for all. He could not understand how this double arrangement by which two persons became responsible for the register was to work, and he could not help thinking that it would very much simplify their dealings with the Bill if the right hon. Gentleman would explain in the slightest degree what he meant to do by his Order in council. He did not know whether the case had been mentioned of two applications being made for one qualification. He had known cases of that sort. How was the clerk to deal with a question of that kind? Was he to decide whether the first or the second man was to be on the register, or was he to refer the question to the revising barrister, or to any other Court? All these points might seem very trivial to those who had not been through registration work, but they would become very real difficulties unless they were dealt with properly by the Order in Council. He very much regretted that the real machinery of the Bill had not been discussed at all during the Committee stage. The right hon. Gentleman had given a splendid description of the way in which he intended to arrange the lobby list, when he suggested the new mode of dividing. He had given a perfect picture of everything that would take place, and Members had hoped that some such descriptive account would be given of what would happen to a man under this Bill. But they had had nothing of the kind, although from time to time they had dragged out certain admissions. But there were a number of perilous questions about which they were still in the dark.
§ MR. HARCOURTsaid he had learned so much as he had been able to learn of Parliamentary procedure by sitting under the Gallery and observing the practice of the right hon. Gentleman who at present led the Opposition. He had listened with admiration to the refusals which that right hon. Gentleman had given to produce an Order in Council until a Bill had become an Act of Parliament, and until he knew the shape it would finally assume. That was the procedure which the right hon. Gentleman followed in the case of the Licensing Bill, the complete methods, for the carrying out of which were put in an Order in Council. The right hon. Gentleman also followed that procedure in regard to the Local Government Bill. He thought that those were very good precedents to follow, and following them he could not produce the details of the Order in Council at the present stage. The hon. Member wished to know how alterations in the printed list could be made. Surely an hon. Member who was so well acquainted with registration law must have it in his mind that such alterations were made under the existing law in the case of an appeal in regard to both admission to the list and refusal to admit. There would be no difficulty in adding a very simple indication in the rare cases in which it was necessary.
§ R. WALTER LONGsaid that the cases which the right hon. Gentleman had cited, namely, those of the Licensing Act and the Local Government Act, were not exactly parallel with this case. For the first time the right hon. Gentleman was saying to the electors. "You shall only have one vote, no matter how many qualifications you have; you shall select one vote, and if you exercise more than one vote you shall go to prison." All that was asked for was a description of the methods and the machinery which were going to be used in order to carry this out. No doubt the right hon. Gentleman had abundant precedent for not declaring the exact form which the Order in Council would take, but they ought to have at that stage some more indication of how this very complicated machinery was going to work. He did not think 981 the right hon. Gentleman had had even from his own followers any support of the attitude he was now taking up, but, on the other hand, he had listened to many criticisms from both sides of the House in regard to it. The right hon. Gentleman ought to indicate what he proposed to do. He must take some further step. If this Bill passed, it was impossible to leave things as they were. They could not alter the law and leave the responsibility upon the three sets of officers he had mentioned. For the first time in this country the possession and exercise of a vote was not a great civic privilege. It meant a grave risk of being sent to prison, not because a man voted who had no right to do so, but because having two votes he had not decided beforehand which he was going to give. If the Government were going to crib, cabin, and confine the privileges of a citizen in this way, they could only do so by promising to place the control in the hands of a Government official. He regretted that the right hon. Gentleman had not been able to give the hon. Member for Hammersmith some assurance on that point. The Government would find that they were enacting under this Bill, if they left it where it was, a law which would make the exercise of the privilege of voting not only much more difficult than it was at present, but a privilege attended by so many disadvantages that they would be regarded by the people as more than counterbalancing the advantages of the franchise.
§ *MR. FELLsaid the Order in Council was to proscribe the manner in which the name of a person selecting any constituency as his voting constituency was to be marked on the register. He did not think if the name was simply to be starred that such an elaborate provision as an Order in Council was required. It looked to him as if some other particulars were to be placed on the register in addition to the starring. But what those conditions were it was impossible to say till they saw the Order in Council. He was convinced himself that money spent on careful preparation of the register in the first instance would save a larger expenditure afterwards. If the register was made up by the proper 982 officer at the time it would in all probability save its being made up three times over and £1 spent on the preparation of the register would save £3 afterwards.
§ R. H. H. MARKSsuggested that the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill could facilitate proceedings at this stage without much inconvenience to himself and with great convenience to the Committee if he could sketch in a few sentences how the difficulties raised were to be dealt with in the Order in Council. It was a pity that the want of this information should be allowed to stand in the way of further progress being made with the Bill.
§ R. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDpointed out that the only mark contemplated in the clause was a mark upon the register of the constituency the voter had selected. He suggested that a mark should also be put upon the register upon which the voter had not selected to vote.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid that the only mark contemplated in Clause 3 was a mark on the register of the constituency selected. That would have the effect that for the first time in practice the register would not be conclusive of the voters entitled to vote. Every one knew that at the time of an election many people came up and said, "Am I entitled to vote," and the register was referred to, and if the name appeared in the register without a mark they were told "Yes."
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid he was only desirous of pointing out that now for the first time a register marked in this way would not be conclusive of the number of people entitled to vote.
§ Question put.
984§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 299 Noes, 60. (Division List NO. 351.)
| Parker, James Halifax | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose |
| Partington, Oswald | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Walsh, Stephen |
| Paul, Herbert | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Walters, John Tudor |
| Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek) | Scott, A.H(Ashton under Lyne) | Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.) |
| Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Sears, J. E. | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Philipps, Col.Ivor(S'thampton) | Seely, Major J. B. | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Pickersgill, Edward Hare | Shackleton, David James | Ward,W.Dudley(Southampt'n) |
| Pirie, Duncan V. | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.) | Wardle, George J. |
| Pollard, Dr. | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney) |
| Price, C.E.(Edinburgh,Central | Simon, John Allsebrook | Waterlow, D. S. |
| Radford, G. H. | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | Watt, H. Anderson |
| Rainy, A. Rolland | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Raphael, Herbert H. | Snowdon, P. | Weir, James Galloway |
| Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Soares, Ernest J. | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
| Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro') | Stanger, H. Y. | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Stanley, Hn.A.Lyulph (Chesh.) | White. Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Redmond, William (Clare) | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Whitehead, Rowland |
| Rees, J. D. | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Rendall, Athelstan | Strachey, Sir Edward | Wiles, Thomas |
| Richards, Thos. W. (Monm'th.) | Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon) | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Richardson,A. | Stuart, James (Sunderland) | Williams.Llewelyn (Carmarth) |
| Rickett, J. Compton | Sullivan, Donal | Williamson, A. |
| Ridsdale, E. A. | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Wills, Arthur Walters |
| Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.) |
| Robertson, Rt.Hn.E. (Dundee) | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Robinson, S. | Thomas, SirA. (Glamorgan, E.) | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
| Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Thomas. David Alfred (Merthyr) | Woodhouse, Sir J.T.(Huddersfd |
| Roe, Sir Thomas | Thompson, J. W.H.(Somerset,E | Young, Samuel |
| Rogers, F. E. Newman | Tomkinson, James | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Rose, Charles Day | Torrance, Sir A. M. | |
| Rowlands, J. | Toulmin, George | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease. |
| Runciman, Walter | Trevelyan, Charles Philips | |
| Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Wadsworth, J. |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Hood.RtHn SirAlexF. | Doughty, Sir George | Roberts, S. (Sheffield.Ecclesall) |
| Ashley, W. W. | Fell, Arthur | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
| Balcarres, Lord | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Forster, Henry William | Smith, F.E.(Liverpool,Walton) |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Hardy,Laurence(Kent, Ashford) | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Barrie, H.T. (Londonderry, N.) | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.) |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Boyle, Sir Edward | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Thomson, W.Mitchell-(Lanark) |
| Bull, Sir William James | Houston, Robert Paterson | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Butcher, Samuel Henry | Kennaway, Rt.Hn.Sir John H. | Turnour, Viscount |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Valentia, Viscount |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich) | Walker, Col. W.H.(Lancashire) |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Long,Rt.Hn.Walter(Dublin,S.) | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Wilson, A.Stanley(York, E.R.) |
| Chamberlain, Rt.Hn.J.A.(Wore | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Coates, E.Fectham (Lewisham) | McCalmont, Colonel James | Younger, George |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Magnus, Sir Philip | |
| Collings.Rt. Hu.J.(Birmingh'm | Muntz, Sir Philip A. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Watson Rutherford and Mr. H. H. Marks. |
| Courthope, G. Loyd | Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington) | |
| Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp | |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Randies, Sir John Scurrah | |
| Dalrymple, Viscount | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
§ Clause 4: —
§ Motion, made and Question proposed, "That Clause 4 stand part of the Bill."
986§ MR. FELLsaid there were certain constituencies in which some exceptions might be made, such, for instance, as the City of London, which was the centre of the commercial world. Practically the whole of those who had votes in the City resided out of it, the business demands upon the 987 space there being so great that land was not available for residential purposes, and it would be ridiculous if they attempted to force people who had offices in the City to reside there.
THE CHAIRMANsaid he could not see how the hon. Member's remarks had anything to do with the question that Clause 4 stand part of the Bill.
§ MR. FELLsaid he was trying to discuss the differences between this exceptional constituency and others.
THE CHAIRMANsaid there were 670 constituencies, and it would certainly not be in order to discuss all their circumstances. If the position of the City of London was to be raised it should have been on Clause 1.
§ MR. CHARLES CRAIG (Antrim, S.)said it seemed to him that before they passed Clause 4 they should have some explanation from the hon. right Gentleman in charge of the Bill as to the necessity of the clause. It had been pointed out continuously that the Bill had been framed on the principle of legislation by reference. He felt sure, therefore, that
| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, Win. (Cork. N.E.) | Boland, John | Cobbold, Felix Thornley |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Bolton, T.D.(Derbyshire, N.E.) | Collins, SirWm.J.(S.Pancras,W |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Bottomley, Horatio | Cooper, G. J. |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey) | Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) |
| Alden, Percy | Bowerman, C. W. | Corbett C.H (Sussex,E.Grinst'd |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Brace, William | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Bramsdon, T. A. | Cotton. Sir H. J. S. |
| Astbury, John Meir | Branch, James | Cox, Harold |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Brigg, John | Cremer. William Randal |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Bright, J. A. | Crosfield. A. H. |
| Barker, John | Brocklehurst, W. B. | Dalziel, James Henry |
| Barlow, JohnEmmott(Somers't | Brunner, J.F.L.(Lanes., Leigh) | Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) |
| Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Brunner, Rt.HnSirJ.T.(Chesh.) | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) |
| Barnard, E. B. | Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs) | Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Delany, William |
| Beale, W. P. | Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) |
| Beauchamp, E. | Burnyeat, W. J. D. | Dickinson,W.H.(St.Pancras, N. |
| Beaumont,Hn. W.C. B.(Hexh'm | Buxton, Rt.Hon. Sydney Chas. | Duckworth. James |
| Beck, A. Cecil | Byles, William Pollard | Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness) |
| Bell, Richard | Campbel-.Bannerman, Sir H. | Duncan. J. H. (York. Otley) |
| Bellairs, Carlyon | Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) |
| Belloc, Hilarie Joseph Peter R. | Cawley, Frederick | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) |
| Benn,Sir J.Williams(Devonp'rt | Cheetham, John Frederick | Edwards, Frank (Radnor) |
| Benn, W.(T'w'rH'mlets, S.Geo. | Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. | Elibank, Master of |
| Berridge, T. H. D. | Clarke, C. Goddard | Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward |
| Bethell, J. H. (Essex,Romford) | Cleland, J. W. | Erskine, David C. |
| Billson, Alfred | Clough, W. | Esmonde, Sir Thomas |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Clynes, J.R. | Eve, Harry Trelawney |
| Black, Arthur W. (Bedf'rdshire) | Coats, SirT.Glen(Renfrew, W.) | Everett, R. Lacey |
§ the word "constituency" must have been already defined in previous Bills dealing with the same subject. Therefore, this clause was superfluous and should left out.
§ SIR W. ROBSONsaid it was a somewhat curious circumstance that the word "constituency" had not been defined in previous legislation of this character. In Registration and Electorate Acts the words used were—
The county or borough returning a Member for Parliament.Therefore it was essential that the word should be defined.
§ VISCOUNT TURNOUR (Sussex, Horsham)said after the remarks of the hon. and learned Gentleman he saw no reason why the old arrangement should not be stuck to, and therefore thought this clause was more superfluous than ever.
§ Question put.
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 309; Noes, 66. (Division List No. 352.)
| Faber, G. H. (Boston) | Macdonald,J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs | Ridsdale, E. A. |
| Fenwick, Charles | Maclean, Donald | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Ferens, T. R. | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Field, William | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down.S.) | Robinson, S. |
| Flynn, James Christopher | MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.) | Robson, Sir William Snowdon |
| Freeman-Thomas, Freeman | McCrae, George | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Fuller, John Michael F. | McKenna, Reginald | Rogers, F. E. Newman |
| Fullerton, Hugh | McKillop, W. | Rose, Charles Day |
| Gibb, James (Harrow) | McMicking, Major G. | Rowlands. J. |
| Gill, A. H. | Maddison, Frederick | Runciman, Walter |
| Gladstone, Rt.Hn.HerbertJohn | Mallet, Charles E. | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) |
| Glover, Thomas | Manfield, Harry (Northants) | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) |
| Grant, Corrie | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) |
| Greenwood, G. (Peterborough | Markham, Arthur Basil | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) |
| Greenwood, Hamar (York) | Marks.G.Croydon (Launceston | Scott,A.H. (Ashton -under Lyne |
| Gulland, John W. | Massie, J. | Sears, J. E. |
| Hall, Frederick | Masterman, C. F. G. | Seely, Major J. B. |
| Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis | Meagher, Michael | Shackleton, David James |
| Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'J | Menzies, Walter | Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford) |
| Hart-Davies, T. | Micklem, Nathaniel | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.) |
| Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Money, L. G. Chiozza | Shipman, Dr. John G. |
| Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Montagu, E. S. | Simon, John Allsobrook |
| Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Mooney, J. J. | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie |
| Haworth, Arthur A. | Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall) | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Hedges, A. Paget | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen | Snowdon, P. |
| Helme, Norval Watson | Morrell, Philip | Soares, Ernest J. |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Morse, L. L. | Stanger, H. Y. |
| Henry, Charles S. | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas | Stanley, Hn.A.Lyulph (Chesh.) |
| Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.) | Murnaghan, George | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) |
| Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe | Murphy, John | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) |
| Higham, John Sharp | Murray, James | Strachey, Sir Edward |
| Hobart, Sir Robert | Myer, Horatio | Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon) |
| Hogan, Michael | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Stuart, James (Sunderland) |
| Holden, E. Hopkinson | Napier, T. B. | Sullivan, Donal |
| Holland, Sir William Henry | Nieholls, George | Summerbell, T. |
| Hooper, A. G. | Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r; | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) |
| Horniman, Emslie John | Nolan, Joseph | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Horridge, Thomas Gardner | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Hudson, Walter | Nussev, Thomas Willans | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) |
| Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Nuttall, Harry | Thomas, Sir A.(Glamorgan, E.) |
| Hyde, Clarendon | O'Brien, Kendal (TipperaryMid | Thomas.David Alfred(Merthyr) |
| Idris, T. H. W. | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Thompson, J.W.H.(Somerset,E |
| Isaacs, Rufus Daniel | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) | Tomkinson, James |
| Jackson, R. S. | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Torrance, Sir A. M. |
| Jacoby, James Alfred | O'Doherty, Philip | Toulmin, George |
| Jenkins, J. | O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) | O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon, N.) | Wadsworth, J. |
| Jones, Sir.D.Brynmor(Swansea | O'Malley, William | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose |
| Jones, Leif (Appleby) | O'Mara, James | Walsh, Stephen |
| Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Walters, John Tudor |
| Jowett, F. W. | Parker, James (Halifax) | Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.) |
| Joyce, Michael | Partington, Oswald | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Kearley, Hudson E. | Paul, Herbert | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Kekewich, Sir George | Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek) | Ward, W.Dudley(Southampton |
| Kelley, George D. | Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Wardle, George J. |
| Kincaid-Smith, Captain | Philipps, Col.Ivor(S'thampton) | Wason, JohnCathcart(Orkmney) |
| King. Alfred John (Knutsford) | Pickersgill, Edward Hare | Waterlow, D. S. |
| Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James | Pirie, Duncan V. | Watt, H. Anderson |
| Laidlaw, Robert | Pollard, Dr. | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Lamb.Edmund G.(Leominster) | Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh.Central) | Weir, James Galloway |
| Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) | Radford, G. H. | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
| Lambert, George | Rainy, A. Rolland | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Lamont, Norman | Raphael, Herbert H. | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Whitehead, Rowland |
| Layland-Barratt, Francis | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro') | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Lehmann. R. C | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Wiles, Thomas |
| Lever, A.Levy(Essex,Harwich) | Redmond, William (Clare) | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Levy, Maurice | Rees, J. D. | Williams,Llewelyn(Carmarthn) |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Rendall, Athelstan | Williamson, A. |
| Lundon, W. | Richards, Thos. (W. Monrn'th) | Wills, Arthur Walters |
| Lyell, Charles Henry | Richardson, A. | Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull.W.) |
| Lynch, H. B. | Rickett, J. Compton | Wilson, Henry J.(York, W. R.) |
| Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) | Woodhouse,SirJ.T.(Huddersf'd | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease. |
| Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) | Young, Samuel | |
| Wood, T. M'Kinnon | Yoxall, James Henry |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Hood.Rt.Hn SirAlex.F | Craik, Sir Henry | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp. |
| Ashley, W. W. | Dalrymple, Viscount | Randles, Sir John Scurrah |
| Balcarres, Lord | Doughty, Sir George | Rawlinson, JohnFrederickPeel |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
| Batmer, John S. Harmood- | Forster, Henry William | Rutherford,W. W. (Liverpool |
| Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester) | Hamilton, Marquess of | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry.N.) | Hardy, Laurence(Kent,Ashford | Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Smith, F. E(Liverp'l,Walton) |
| Boyle, Sir Edward | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.) |
| Butcher, Samuel Henry | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Houston, Robert Paterson | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Kennaway.Rt.Hn.sir John H. | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Lambton, Hon. Frederick W. | Turnour, Viscount |
| Cave, George | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Valentia, Viscount |
| Cavendish, Rt. Hn.Victor C.W. | Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich) | Walker, Col. W. H.(Lancashire |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Long, Rt.Hn.Walter(Dublin,S. | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Wilson, A.Stanlev(York, E. R.) |
| Coates, E.Feetham(Lewisham) | Lyttelton, Rt. Hou. Alfred | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Cochrane. Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | McCalmont, Colonel James | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Collings,Rt Hn, J.(Birm'Bh'm) | Magnus, Sir Philip | Younger, George |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Marks, H. H. (Kent) | |
| Courthope, G. Loyd | Parker, SirGilbert(Gravesend) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir William Bull and Mr. Fell. |
| Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlingt'n |
§ On Clause 5:—
§
*MR. GULLAND(Dumfries Burghs) moved an Amendment to leave out all the words of the first sub-section after "Act." He said the Amendment was a friendly one, prompted by a desire to make the Bill work so smoothly that it would be a great success. The necessity for the Amendment was due to the fact that the register in Scotland operated for a different period from the English register. The Scottish register came into operation on 1st November, and ended on 31st October and in that respect, as in a good many other respects, was a great deal better than the English register because it came into operation two months earlier. According to the clause—
The Secretary for Scotland may issue instructions for any purpose for which an Order in Council may be made under this Act, and may also issue any instructions which are rendered necessary by the fact that the currency of the Parliamentary register in Scotland does not coincide with the calendar year, including instructions for prescribing some special manner in which the name of a person is to be marked on the register whose notice of selection does not take effect till the first day of January succeeding the day on which the register comes into force, or whose notice of selection ceases to operate on the said first day of January.
992
It seemed to him that this would cause a great deal of complication in connection with the Scottish register, and it was a complication which, he thought, could be avoided. During the first year or two under the new system he expected that there would be a good deal of change of selection. He wished to point out how the Bill would work in regard to Scotland. If a man happened to have qualification in the burgh of Dumfries, and also in the county—two separate constituencies— on the roll which came into force on 1st November, 1907, he would be entitled to vote in both constituencies until 31st December, 1907, though previous to 1st September he had selected to vote in the burgh. On the burgh register he would be marked in some special way, with, for instance, the letter S, which meant during the calendar year 1908. But the elector found that he wished to transfer his selection for the following year, 1909, to the county, and now it was that all the complication came in. His name appeared on the new burgh register with some other mark than the simple S—some such mark as S.N.D., indicating that during November and December he desired to vote in the burgh. Then in the county register he
993
must be marked S.J.O., showing that his vote there did not apply until 1st January. The letters J.O. would mean January to October, and in that way the presiding officer would know that his vote did not come into operation until 1st January. Before 1st September, perhaps, he wished to go back to the burgh, or to select some other constituency, but he could not sever himself until 31st December, and the county register must bear opposite his name S.N.D., showing that he continued to vote there until the beginning of January. He submitted that this was a very confusing state of matters. It was confusing to the sheriff-clerk who had to affix to his name the signification, it was confusing to the voter himself, and it was confusing to the officer presiding at the election. There was no necessity for this confusion, as there was no reason why the English method should be superimposed on the Scottish register. He submitted that the Scottish voter ought to be able to make his selection not for the calendar year, but for the currency of the Scottish Parliamentary register from 1st November to 31st October.
*THE CHAIRMANNow that I understand the hon. Member, I think he is proposing a change from the calendar year for Scotland. That is something quite different from the Amendment; it contravenes what is already decided, and, therefore, it is not in order.
§ *MR. GULLANDI was trying to show that Clause 5 should be left out and that there should be another system with regard to Scotland.
*THE CHAIRMANWhat the hon. Member was trying to do was to show that something required to be done which would necessitate an alteration in Clause 1, and that cannot be altered at this stage.
§ MR. MITCHELL-THOMSON (Lanarkshire, N.W.)asked whether the clause did not say that the Secretary for Scotland was to be empowered to make alterations which were rendered necessary by the fact that the currency of the Parliamentary register in Scotland did not coincide with the calendar year.
*THE CHAIRMANThe Secretary for Scotland is empowered to make alterations with regard to Scotland. The point which the hon. Member for the Dumfries Burghs was making was clearly out of order.
§ VISCOUNT TURNOURDo I understand that your ruling is that the Amendment is not in order?
THE CHAIRMANIf the hon. Member desires to move an Amendment he must use arguments which are in order.
§ MR. PIRIE (Aberdeen, N.)asked whether there would be no opportunity for Scottish Members to suggest alterations in the Bill.
§ MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONasked whether it would be in order if he moved the Amendment.
§ MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONthen moved the Amendment. On the First Reading of the Bill the First Commissioner of Works said he would make provision to meet this difficulty in regard to Scotland. They ought to move this Amendment in order to ask the right hon. Gentleman what provision he contemplated making to fulfil the promise he had given to the House. It was not enough to tell them the Secretary for Scotland was to be empowered to issue instructions for any purpose for which an Order in Council might be made under this Act.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 3, line 13, to leave out from the word 'Act' to the end of the sub-section."— (Mr. Mitchell-Thompson.)
Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out to the word 'including,' in line 16, stand part of the clause.
§ *MR. GULLANDsaid he had endeavoured to show how this Bill, excellent in regard to England, would, in his judgment, not be satisfactory with regard to Scotland. In the majority of these cases 995 in England it was a question of selection as between one constituency and another, and there would be no trouble at all. But if a man made his selection in Scotland it should be in respect of the Scottish Parliamentary register which ran from 1st November to 31st October, and not in respect of the calendar year, as was the case in England.
THE CHAIRMANI am afraid the hon. Member is not in order in making that proposal. Clause 1, Sub-section (1) says—
A person registered as a Parliamentary elector in more than one constituency shall not vote as such, or ask for a ballot or voting paper for the purpose of so voting during any calendar year after the year nineteen hundred and seven…Clause 5 says—The Secretary for Scotland may issue instructions for any purpose for which an Order in Council may be made under this Act, and may also issue any instructions which are rendered necessary by the fact that the currency of the Parliamentary register in Scotland does not coincide with the calendar year …That is quite a different point from what the hon. Member was recommending, namely, that the Bill really should be altered to suit the case of the Scottish register.
§ *MR. GULLANDsaid in his judgment the Secretary for Scotland should not have put upon him the duty of issuing instructions as to the method in which this difficulty should be dealt with. The particular method in which it should be dealt with should be laid down in the Bill. So far as Scotland was concerned, the expression "the currency of the Parliamentary register" should be substituted for "any calendar year," provided that no person should be entitled to record a vote both in a constituency in England or Ireland and in a constituency in Scotland during the same calendar year.
§ SIR HENRY CRAIK (Glasgow and Aberdeen Universities)asked the Committee to notice the position in which the Scottish Members were placed. It was admitted by the right hon. Gentleman that the position created in Scotland was somewhat peculiar, and that it required special treatment. They now asked how this special treatment was to be carried 996 out, and they were given no explanation. Not only that, but instead of those regulations being laid down by an Order in Council, they were to be laid down by the instructions of the Secretary for Scotland. He was not aware that Orders in Council did not run in Scotland as well as in England and Ireland. He was well aware, on the contrary, that Orders in Council were a very usual and constant method of doing business in Scotland Why was procedure under this Bill to be different from that under any other Bill? Regulations which, it was admitted by the right hon. Gentleman, required particular consideration had not been explained to the Committee down to the present moment; but the framing of them was to be handed over to the Secretary for Scotland. He was proud to support the hon. Member opposite, who had detailed with great skill and force the difficulties which would arise under this clause.
§ THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. THOMAS SHAW,) Hawick Burghssaid he was far from making any pretence to the Committee that considerable difficulties would not arise out of the fact that the register in Scotland ran from 1st November to 1st November, and in England from 1st January to 1st January. The position of the Committee was that it had affirmed under Section 1 that the selection process must be at the beginning of the calendar year, that was to say, 1st January; and the endeavour was to bring the Scottish procedure into line with that decision. What was proposed to be done by his hon. friend's proposal was a very simple operation viz., that the calendar year should run as the register year. But he would point out that that would be contrary to what had been affirmed by Section 1, and would operate unjustly, which he was quite sure his hon. friend would deplore. A man having qualifications in both England and Scotland might make his selection on 1st September to vote in Scotland, getting leave to vote, say, from 1st November, 1906, to 1st November, 1907. In the course of the year if he changed his mind and proposed to go to England to vote, and intimated his intention on 1st November, he would find, as the result that he had lost his Scottish vote 997 for 1907 and would not get his English vote until the following year. In a proposal of his hon. friend the vote would be lost for two months. The only safe course was to stick to the calendar year, under which there would be no disfranchisement of either Scotsmen or Englishmen. All that the clause provided for was a special marking of the register which would give the man the right to vote continuously within the United Kingdom.
§ MR. WALTER LONGsaid he wished to congratulate the Government upon the result which had followed the first appearance of one of their own supporters speaking in support of the Bill, but introducing an Amendment which would make the Bill work more smoothly. The Lord-Advocate had told them that an English man, if he chanced to cross the border, would lose his vote, but they had not heard what would become of the Scottish voter who crossed the border into England. Hon. Gentlemen who were familiar with Acts of Parliament knew that it was not unusual to introduce what was known as the Henry the Eighth Clause, which enabled the Government to make a Bill operate if in it there were found certain inaccuracies. But there was never an Henry the Eighth Clause more complete or drastic than that which gave to all concerned this unlimited power to make the Scottish system conform to a clause which had been adopted in regard to England, but which, as it stood, would produce confusion in Scotland. Up to now he had thought Englishmen entitled to the sympathy of their fellow citizens in connection with this Bill. He now realised that the unfortunate Scotsmen received even worse treatment at the hands of their friends. He thought that bad as the treatment which we in this country had received at the hands of the Government our Scottish fellow citizens had received even worse treatment from their own friends.
§ MR. COURTHOPEsaid the arguments which the Lord-Advocate had used were very thin indeed. He should certainly support the Amendment if his hon. friend went to a division.
§ SIR E. CARSONsaid he had considerable sympathy with the voter who had to search through an Act of Parliament and then go to the Gazette in order to see if he had a vote or not.
§ MR. CHARLES CRAIGthought the Committee should seriously consider the position. He submitted that this method of legislating by reference had been carried altogether to too great a length. Here they had a point which the Lord Advocate had admitted was one of the greatest difficulty. Apparently it had puzzled both himself and his colleagues on the Treasury Bench and then it was to be referred to the Secretary for Scotland.
THE CHAIRMANdid not think the hon. Member was in order. He must speak to the question before the Committee.
§ MR. CHARLES CRAIGsaid he was addressing an argument to the Committee in order to show that the section as it stood was unworkable and was bad in many respects.
§ SIR E. CARSONthought that they were entitled to some explanation.
§ MR. THOMAS SHAWsaid that the Orders which were consequential upon the statute would be given effect to by statutory rules and forms. A point had been taken as to the dilemma in which the English voter would find himself, but he was completely covered and kept right by the operation of the first clause, which so far as he was concerned gave him no trouble, but having within the current year selected where he would vote he could vote nowhere else. He hoped that the Committee would not understand from anything which had been said that he suggested for a moment that the Scottish system was in any respect defective even when compared with the English system. He had a very 999 strong opinion that a reform on this subject was due under which the English system would be brought up to the sensible Scottish system of the 1st of November, and under which the new register would be made available south of the Tweed as it was north of the Tweed for the municipal elections. They did not intend to bring in any Bill on the subject, but he would say that there was no grounds for saying that a certain portion of the constituency would be disfranchised.
§ MR. WYNDHAM (Dover)said he did not wish to retort upon the Lord-Advocate. This was not a question between England and Scotland at all, and perhaps the latter had the better system. But all the Members of the House, whether sitting for English, Irish, or Scottish constituencies, were sitting there under the same rules and under a similar system of references, and they were all there as Members for definite constituencies. Now, however, it was suggested for the first time that the Secretary for Scotland was to lay down rules or regulations as to the particular way in which any Scottish or English Member was to sit in the House of Commons. The Government by saying that they were to sit there under an Order in Council under a new reform Bill which for the first time merely took votes away were committing an outrage upon the traditions and the debates of the House.
§ *MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONasked the Lord Advocate what he meant when he said that they were to make their procedure in Scotland conform with the system which had been laid down in sub-section (1) of Section 1. Did he mean by that, that in fact and in practice the currency of the Scottish register would not be still from the 1st of November to the 1st of November, but from the 1st of January to the 1st of January, and, if so, he wished further to ask the First Commissioner of Works whether this was the "slight alteration" to which he alluded at an earlier stage of the debates.
§ MR. HARMOOD-BANNER (Liverpool, Everton)said there was one remark 1000 of the hon. Member's that attracted his particular attention, and that was that the English voter was captured and kept right by the penalties of Clause 1. He wanted to know whether the Scottish voter was to be captured and kept right by the same penalties.
§ MR. HARMOOD-BANNERsaid that they wished to know whether the Lord-Advocate had power under this instruction to alter this rule as regards punishments, because it was most important to know whether Englishmen and Irishmen were to be treated worse than Scotsmen under this Act.
§ MR. PIRIE (Aberdeen. N.)said as a Scottish Member it was the duty of the Scottish Members to protest against these matters being dealt with by means of instructions to be issued by the Secretary for Scotland. He urged the Government to reconsider this matter and give some assurance that they would make some statement with regard to it on the Report stage of the Bill.
THE CHAIRMANsaid he wished that hon. Members would speak to the Question. The actual Question was that all the words after the word "Act" in page 3, line 13, should be struck out. That was the only Question before the Committee.
§ LORD R. CECILthanked the Chairman for his observations which he thought had cleared the air very considerably. The question he wished to put as an Englishman, slightly confused by the elaborate explanations given by Scottish Members, although no doubt those explanations were perfectly intelligible to them, was this. He wanted to know whether they would have, and he really thought they ought to, some description of the nature of these instructions. There was something in addition. 1001 to the powers given in England, because the first three lines of the clause gave the Secretary for Scotland all the powers given to England. He did not in the least understand what the nature of these instructions could be unless it was in some way to modify the first clause of the Bill. It had been ruled that no modification could now be made, even by this Committee, in Clause I. and were they now to rule that the Secretary for Scotland upon his own ipse dixit could do what this House could not?
§ MR. COURTHOPEthought that the Lord-Advocate had made a mistake when he said that he hoped the time would shortly come when the register would come into force south of the Tweed at the same time as north of the Tweed, namely, on the 1st of November. It did so now.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDdid not agree with his hon, friends around him, because the situation disclosed by reading the first section in connexion with Clause 5 showed that the question was exceedingly complicated. But he thought that the procedure adopted by the Government was not an improvement of the electoral law, and that the selection must be for the calendar year. It was obvious that they would have to wait for the further instructions, and he could quite conceive that those instructions would have to give the Scottish voter the same amount of selection, namely, for the whole year, as the English voter was to have. The confusion would be considerable. Supposing a man to be on the register in Scotland from 1st November to 31st October, for one place, and supposing he knew he was going to lose that qualification, he would still want to vote for it if the election took place any time before October. He might want to exercise his legitimate right of selection for the whole twelve months, and the result 1002 would be that he would have to send in a notice of selection not of one constituency but of two constituencies. It was a very complicated matter and he would impress upon the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill that he should make some explicit statement as to the instructions to be given.
§ SIR FREDERICK BANBURYsaid if the Secretary for Scotland was to be given authority to make regulations as to how Members were to be returned to this House his desire was to vote against the retention of these words. But in that case he would be supporting a state of things by which a person having a vote in England and also in Scotland would either be disfranchised for two months or have two votes for two months. Being in this dilemma his only safe course was to vote against the Government.
§ SIR E. CARSONsaid that the question was whether the Committee was prepared to give the Secretary for Scotland powers, not only to put the Act into force, but to repeal former Acts as to the calendar year. That was going beyond what had ever been done by Order in Council, and he hoped the Lord-Advocate would consider it a point worthy of consideration.
§ MR. THOMAS SHAWsaid that under no possible circumstances did the Government desire or intend to give to the Secretary for Scotland any power beyond the actual provisions of the Act. The real object of the latter part of the section was to provide for the discrepancy between the close of the register of one country and the close of the register in the other. Instructions would be issued which were rendered necessary by the fact that the currency of the Parliamentary register in Scotland did not coincide with the calendar year. The necessity of bringing these into line was the oily reason the section had been drawn in this form.
§ MR. DALZIEL (Kirkcaldy Burghs)said it appeared to him that what were, after all, points of very small magnitude were being raised to the importance of a great constitutional question. He was sorry he could not altogether agree with some of his hon. friends on this question, because so far as he understood the point before the Committee it was to a large extent whether they would or would not give to the Secretary for Scotland the control of Scottish affairs. He maintained that in giving the Secretary for Scotland power, which so far as England was concerned would be contained in an Order in Council, they were carrying out the legitimate object of this Bill. The proposal was only a question of machinery. The situation in Scotland was different from that in England, and they were bound to leave a certain discretion and a certain administrative power in the way of machinery in the hands of their executive officer in order to carry the Act into force, and the most responsible officer in this case was undoubtedly the Secretary for Scotland, who was answerable to this House, He did not think that any Secretary for Scotland would be likely to go outside the four corners of the Bill, and they had no alternative but to leave this matter in his hands.
§ LORD TURNOURthought the Secretary for Scotland ought to give an answer to this point, seeing that the question was immediately connected
| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork. N.E.) | Barran, Rowland Hirst | Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Beale, W. P. | Boland, John |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Beauchamp, E. | Bolton, TD.(Derbyshire, N.E.) |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Beaumont, Hn. H.(Eastbourne | Bottomley, Horatio |
| Alden, Percy | Beaumont, Hn.W.C.B.(Hexham | Boulton. A. C. F. (Ramsey) |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Beck, A. Cecil | Bowerman, C.W. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Bell, Richard | Brace, William |
| Asquith, Rt.Hn.Herbert Henry | Bellairs, Carlyon | Bramsdon, T. A. |
| Astbury, John Meir | Benn, SirJ.Williams(Devonp'rt | Branch, James |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Benn, W.(T'w'rH'mlets, S.Geo. | Brigg, John |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Berridge, T. H. D. | Bright, J. A. |
| Barker, John | Bertram, Julius | Brocklehurst, W. B. |
| Barlow, JohnEmmott(Somerset | Bethell, J.H. (Essex, Romford) | Brodie, H. C. |
| Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Billson, Alfred | Brooke, Stopford |
| Barnard, E. B. | Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Brunner, J.F.L.(Lancs., Leigh |
§ with his department. Everything that was possible had been done for him during the recess, and his prompters were sitting not twenty yards away, and under those circumstances one would have thought that it would have been possible for the Secretary for Scotland to give an answer to a specific question like that. He hoped that some right hon. Gentleman on behalf of the Government would give an answer.
§ MR. CLAUDE HAYsaid the Amendment before the Committee was in regard to the instructions which the Secretary for Scotland had to issue. Throughout the whole of this discussion the Secretary for Scotland had not been in his place, and he had not dared to face the House of Commons in regard to a matter for which he would be responsible. All he had to say was that nothing had occurred in this House more un-Scottish than the conduct of the Secretary for Scotland in this matter.
§ MR. CLAUDE HAY, to put himself in order, moved to report progress, but
§ Original Question put.
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 341: Noes, 77. (Division List No. 353.)
| Brunner.Rt.Hn.Sir J.T.(Chesh. | Hart-Davics, T. | Manfield, Harry (Northants) |
| Bryce, Rt.Hn. James (Aberdeen | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln) |
| Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs) | Harwood, George | Markham, Arthur Basil |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston |
| Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Haslam, Leiws (Monmouth.) | Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry) |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Haworth, Arthur A. | Massie, J. |
| Burnyeat, W. J. D. | Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Meagher, Michael |
| Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas. | Hedges, A. Paget | Menzies, Walter |
| Byles, William Pollard | Helme, Norval Watson | Micklem, Nathaniel |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Hemmerde, Edward George | Molteno, Percy Alport |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Money, L. G. Chiozza |
| Causton,Rt.Hn.RichardKnight | Henry, Charles S. | Montagu, E. S. |
| Cawley, Frederick | Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.) | Montgomery, H. G. |
| Chance, Frederick William | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Mooney, J. J. |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Higham, John Sharp | Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall) |
| Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. | Hobart, Sir Robert | Morgan, J.Lloyd(Carmarthen) |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Hogan, Michael | Morrell, Philip |
| Clarke, C. Goddard | Holden, E. Hopkinson | Morse, L. L. |
| Cleland, J. W. | Holland, Sir William Henry | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas |
| Clough, W. | Hooper, A. G. | Murnaghan, George |
| Coats, Sir T. Glen(Renfrew,W.) | Horniman.Emslie John | Murphy, John |
| Cobbold, Felix Thornley | Horridge, Thomas Gardner | Murray, James |
| Collins.SirWm. J.(S. Pancras,W | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Myer, Horatio |
| Cooper, G. J. | Hudson, Walter | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Corbett, A. Cameron(Glasgow) | Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Napier, T. B. |
| Corbett,CH.(Sussex,E.Grnst'd | Hyde, Clarendon | Newnes, F. (Notts, Bassetlaw |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Idris, T. H. W. | Nicholls, George |
| Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Illingworth, Percy H. | Nicholson, Chas. N.(Doncast'r) |
| Craig, HerbertJ.(Tynemouth) | Isaacs, Rufus Daniel | Nolan, Joseph |
| Cremer, William Randal | Jackson, R. S. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Crosfield, A. H. | Jacoby, James Alfred | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Jenkins, J. | Nuttall, Harry |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) | O'Brien, KendalfTipperaryMid |
| Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Jones, SirD.Brynmor(Swansea) | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Delany, William | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Dawar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Jowett, F. W. | O'Doherty, Philip |
| Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras) | Joyce, Michael | O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth) |
| Duckworth, James | Kearley, Hudson E. | O'Grady, J. |
| Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness | Kekewich, Sir Geroge | O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon, N.) |
| Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Kelley, George D. | O'Malley, William |
| Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Kincaid-Smith, Captain | O'Mara, James |
| Duane, MajorE.Martin(Walsall | King, Alfred John (Knustford) | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Laidlaw. Robert | Partington, Oswald |
| Edwards, Frank (Radnor) | Lamb. Edmund G. (Leominster | Paul, Herbert |
| Elibank, Master of | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) | Paulton, James Mellor |
| Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward | Lambert, George | Pearce, Robert (Staffs Leek) |
| Erskine, David C. | Lamont, Norman | Pearce, William (Limehouse) |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thamoton |
| Eve, Harry Trelawney | Layland-Barratt, Francis | Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) |
| Everett, R. Lacey | Lehmann, R. C. | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Fonwick, Charles | Lever, A. Levy(Essex,Harwich) | Pollard, Dr. |
| Ferens, T. R. | Levy, Maurice | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh,Central |
| Field, William | Lewis, John Herbert | Radford, G. H. |
| Fiennes, Hon. Eustace | Lough, Thomas | Rainy, A. Rolland |
| Flynn, James Christopher | Lundon, W. | Raphael, Herbert H. |
| Freeman-Thomas, Freeman | Lupton, Arnold | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) |
| Fuller, John Michael F. | Lyell, Charles Henry | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro' |
| Fullerton, Hugh | Lynch, H. B. | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Gibb, James (Harrow) | .Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Gill, A. H. | Maclean, Donald | Rees, J. D. |
| Gladstone, Rt.Hn.HerbertJohn | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Rendall, Athelstan |
| G'over, Thomas | MacVeagh, Jeremiah(Down.S.) | Renton, Major Leslie |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal,E. | Richards, Thos. (W. Monm'th) |
| Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | M'Crae, George | Richardaon, A. |
| Greenwood, Hamar (York) | M'Kean, John | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward | M'Kenna, Reginald | Ridsdale, E. A. |
| Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | M'Killop, W. | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Hall, Frederick | M'Micking, Major G. | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis | Maddison, Frederick | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) | Mallet, Charles E. | Robinson, S. |
| Robson, Sit William Snowdon | Strachey, Sir Edward | Waterlow, D. S. |
| Roe, Sir Thomas | Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon) | Watt, H. Anderson |
| Rogers, F. E. Newman | Stuart, James (Sunderland) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Rose, Charles Day | Sullivan, Donal | Weir, James Galloway |
| Rowlands, J. | Sumnerbell, T. | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
| Runciman, Walter | Taylor Austin (East Toxteth) | White, Luke (York, E.R.) |
| Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Taylor, John W. (Durham) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Taylor, Theodore C. (Rideliffe | Whithead, Rowland |
| Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Thomas. Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) | Wiles, Thomas |
| Scott, A.H.(Ashton underLyne | Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Sears, J. E. | Thompson, J.W.H.(Somcrset,E | Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarthen |
| Seely, Major J. B. | Tomkinson, James | Williamson. A. |
| Shackleton, David James | Torrance, Sir A. M. | Wills. Arthur Walters |
| Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford) | Toulmin, George | Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull, W. |
| Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.) | Verney, F. W. | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.) |
| Shipman, Dr. John G. | Wadsworth, J. | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Simon, John Allsebrook | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose | Wilson, J.W.(Worcestersh, N.) |
| Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John | Walsh, Stephen | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | Walters, John Tudor | Winfrey, R. |
| Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) | Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.) | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
| Snowden, P. | Walton, Joseph (Bamsley) | Woodhouse,SirJ.T.(Huddersfd |
| Soares, Ernest J. | Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent) | Young, Samuel |
| Stanger, H: Y. | Ward, W.Dudley(Southampton | |
| Stanley, Hn. A.Lyulph(Chesh.) | Wardle, George J. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease. |
| Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | |
| Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney) |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Hood.Rt.Hn.SirAlexF. | Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | Randles, Sir John Scurrah |
| Ashley, W. W. | Dalrymple, Viscount | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
| Balcarres, Lord | Doughty, Sir George | Roberts, S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Balfour, Rt.Hn.A.J.(CityLond. | Duncan, Robert(Lanark,Govan | Ropner. Colonel Sir Robert |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Fell, Arthur | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) |
| Baring, Hon. Guy (Wincnester) | Forster, Henry William | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Barrie, H. T.(Londonderry,N.) | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Beach, Hn.Michacl Hugh Hicks | Hamilton, Marquess of | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hardy, Laurence(Kent,Ashford | Smith, F. E. (Liverpool,Walton |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Harrison-Broadley. Col. H. B. | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Boyle, Sir Edward | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Staveley-Hill, Henry Staff'sn.) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hills, J. W. | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Butcher, Samuel Henry | Houston, Robert Paterson | Talbot, Rt,Hn.J.G.(Oxf'dUniv. |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm, | Turnour, Viscount |
| Castlereagu, Viscount | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Valentia, Viscount |
| Cave, George | Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich) | Walker, Col.W.H.(Lancashire) |
| Cavendish, Rt. Hn.Victor C.W. | Long, Rt, Hn. Walter(Dublin,S | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Wilson, A.Stanley (York, E.R.) |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Lyttelton, Rt, Hon. Alfred | Wolff, Custav Wilhelm |
| Chamberlain,Rt,Hn.J.A.(Worc. | M'Calmont, Colonel James | Wyndhan Rt. Hon. George |
| Coates, E. Feetham(Lewisham) | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | Younger, George |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Morpeth, Viscount | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Mitchell-Thomson and Sir |
| Courthope, G. Loyd | Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) | |
| Criag,Chas.Curtis(Antrim,S.) | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp | Henry Craik. |
§ MR. GEORGE WHITELEY (Yorkshire, W.R., Pudsey), in moving to report progress, gave notice that it was the intention of the Prime Minister to move the suspension of the Eleven o'clock rule to-morrow.
§ Committee report Progress; to sit again to-morrow.
§ Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Resolution of the House of the 4th August last.
§ Adjoured at two minutes after Eleven o' clock.