§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD (Liverpool, West Derby)said he wished to bring forward, as touching the privileges of Members, the following Motion. "That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the obstructions which have been placed in the House during the recess, whereby eleven seats appropriated for the use of Members near the Speaker's Chair have been obstructed, and a barricade erected in front of the same, and Members prevented from using them; whereby strangers are to be introduced above the Bar; also a further alteration, whereby Members are deprived of their right of introducing strangers on the right-hand side below the Gallery; and to report."
§ *MR. SPEAKERThe hon. Member has not favoured me with any intimation of the fact that he was going to raise this question. I do not think this is a matter of privilege. It is a matter of the construction of the House. It is a very proper subject for consideration, but I do not think it is one that, raises a question of privilege, except in a very incidental manner.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDMay I submit that any obstruction to the use by any Member of any seat appropriated for the use of Members is a breach of privilege. I can give authority for it in Erskine May.
§ *MR. SPEAKERAs I understand, the accommodation offered to Members is greater now than it was before the adjournment.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDThe second point of my Motion is that strangers are introduced above the Bar. This, I think, is contrary to all precedent, and requires the authority of the House before being permitted. I submit that it is a very serious breach of privilege. The Standing Orders are clear that notice is not required for a Question regarding a breach of privilege.
§ *MR. SPEAKERI know quite well that no notice to the House is required, but I think it has been customary to give private notice to the Speaker in order that he may have an opportunity of looking up the precedents and consulting the officers 57 of the House. I am still of opinion that the matter ought not to be raised as a question of privilege, though it can very properly be raised, as the hon. Member suggests, by a Motion for a Select Committee.
§ THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (Mr. HARCOURT, Lancashire, N. E., Rossendale)said he had already arranged for a Supplementary Estimate to be placed before Parliament, which would give the requisite opportunity for discussing the matter.
§ LORD TURNOUR (Sussex, Horsham)asked whether it was in order for any hon. Member so to alter the construction of the House that strangers could be introduced on the floor of the House above the Bar.
§ *MR. SPEAKERIf the hon. Member thinks that strangers have been admitted into this House improperly, there is a course open to him under the Standing Orders—he can call attention to the fact that strangers are present.
§ MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDThe powers of ordering strangers to withdraw are strictly confined to strangers below the Bar and in the front gallery. There is this further anomaly, that we have actually got strangers here now above the Bar without the power of ordering them to withdraw.
§ *MR. SPEAKERThe hon. Member has not in his mind the same Standing Order that I have.
§ LORD TURNOURAs a protest against the action of the Government, I beg to give notice that I will call attention to the fact that I spy strangers.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURasked when it was proposed to submit the Supplementary Estimate, which, it seemed, would afford the most convenient opportunity for discussing the subject.
§ *MR. HARCOURTwas unable to say exactly when the Estimate would be produced. The alterations had been made in accordance with an intimation he gave during the discussion of the Vote for his own office, when he stated that unless some protest were raised he should assume there was general assent to the proposal. The alterations had added three seats to the accommodation provided for Members.
§ MR. CLAUDE HAY (Shoreditch, Hoxton)Is it a matter of privilege that there are strangers above the Bar on the floor of the House?
§ *MR. SPEAKERI have pointed out already that if any hon. Member thinks strangers are present who he thinks ought not to be present, there is a course open to him.
§ MR. CLAUDE HAYI spy strangers.
§ Motion made, and Question put, "That strangers be ordered to withdraw."—(Viscount Turnour.)
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 61; Noes, 207. (Division List No. 319.)
61| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F. | Craik, Sir Henry | MacIver, David (Liverpool) |
| Anstruther-Gray, Major | Dalrymple, Viscount | Magnus, Sir Philip |
| Arnold-Forster,Rt.Hn.HughO. | Dixon-Hartland,Sir FredDixon | Marks, H. H. (Kent) |
| Ashley, W. W. | Doughty, Sir George | Muntz, Sir Philip A. |
| Balcarres Lord | Duncan,Robert(Lanark,Govan) | Newnes, Sir George (Swansea) |
| Banner, John S. Harmood | Fell, Arthur | Nield, Herbert |
| Beach,Hn.Michael Hugh Hicks | Fletcher, J. S. | Parker, Sir Gilbert(Gravesend) |
| Bowles, G. Stewart | Forster, Henry William | Pease,HerbertPike(Darlington) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Helmsley, Viscount | Roberts S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Cave, George | Harvey,F.W.F.(BuryS.E'dm'ds) | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
| Chamberlain,Rt. Hn.J.A(Worc.) | Houston, Robert Paterson | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. | Sloan, Thomas Henry |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos, H. A. E. | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W. | |
| Collings,Rt.Hn.J.(Birmingham) | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Starkey, John R. |
| Courthope, G. Loyd | Long,Rt.Hn.Walter(Dublin,S.) | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.) |
| Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) | Wilson, A. Stanley (York,E.R) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Watson Rutherford and Viscount Turnour. |
| Thomson, W. Mitchell (Lanark) | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm | |
| Thornton, Percy M. | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George | |
| Tuke, Sir John Batty | Younger, George | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.) | Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Kearley, Hudson E. |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.) | Kekewich, Sir George |
| Agnew, George William | Dickinson, W.H.(St.Pancras,N.) | Kelley, George D. |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) |
| Alden, Percy | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Kitson, Sir James |
| Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Dobson, Thomas W. | Laidlaw, Robert |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Lamb, Edmund G.(Leominster) |
| Barker, John | Edwards, Clement Denbigh | Lamont, Norman |
| Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
| Barnard, E. B. | Elibank, Master of | Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington) |
| Barnes, G. N. | Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward | Lehmann, R. C. |
| Beauchamp, E. | Erskine, David C. | Lever, W.H. (Cheshire, Wirral) |
| Bell, Richard | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Levy, Maurice |
| Bellairs, Carlyon | Everett, R. Lacey | Lewis, John Herbert |
| Belloc, Hilaire Joseph Peter R. | Faber, G. H. (Boston) | Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David |
| Benn, W.(T'w'rHamlets,S.Geo. | Ferens, T. R. | Lupton, Arnold |
| Berridge, T. H. D. | Field, William | Lyell, Charles Henry |
| Bethell, J.H.(Essex, Romford) | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace | Lynch, H. B. |
| Billson, Alfred | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Macdonald, J.M.(FalkirkB'ghs) |
| Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire) | Freeman-Thomas, Freeman | Mackarness, Frederic C. |
| Boland, John | Fuller, John Michael F. | Maclean, Donald |
| Bottomley, Horatio | Fullerton, Hugh | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Furness, Sir Christopher | Macpherson, J. T. |
| Brace, William | Gardner, Col. Alan (Hereford,S. | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down,S. |
| Bramsdon, T. A. | Gill, A. H. | MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.) |
| Branch, James | Gladstone, Rt.HnHerbertJohn | M'Crae, George |
| Bright, J. A. | Glover, Thomas | M'Hugh, Patrick A. |
| Brodie, H. C. | Goddard, Daniel Ford | M'Iver,SirLewis(Edinburgh,W. |
| Brooke, Stopford | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | M'Killop, W. |
| Brunner, J.F.L. (Lancs.,Leigh) | Griffith, Ellis J. | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) |
| Brunner, Sir John T.(Cheshire) | Gulland, John W. | M'Micking, Major G. |
| Bryce, Rt.Hn.James(Aberdeen | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | Maddison, Frederick |
| Bryce, J.A. (Inverness Burghs) | Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Mallet, Charles E. |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Hall, Frederick | Manfield, Harry (Northants) |
| Burke, E. Haviland | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln) |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Hardie, J. Keir (MerthyrTydvil) | Markham, Arthur Basil |
| Burnyeat, W. J. D. | Harmsworth, Cecil B.(Worc'r) | Marks,G.Croydon(Launceston) |
| Buxton, Rt.Hn.Sydney Charles | Hart-Davies, T. | Marnham, F. J. |
| Byles, William Pollard | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Massie, J. |
| Cairns, Thomas | Harwood, George | Menzies, Walter |
| Cameron, Robert | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Micklem, Nathaniel |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Molteno, Percy Alport |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Hedges, A. Paget | Money, L. G. Chiozza |
| Chance, Frederick William | Helme, Norval Watson | Montagu, E. S. |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Mooney, J. J. |
| Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. | Henry, Charles S. | Morley, Rt. Hon. John |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon.,S. | Murnaghan, George |
| Clarke, C. Goddard | Higham, John Sharp | Murray, James |
| Clough, W. | Hobart, Sir Robert | Myer, Horatio |
| Clynes, J. R. | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | Nicholls, George |
| Coats, Sir T.Glen(Renfrew, W.) | Hodge, John | Nicholson, Charles N.(Doncast'r |
| Cobbold, Felix Thornley | Hope, W. Bateman (Somerset,N | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Corbett,C.H.(Sussex,EGrinst'd) | Hudson, Walter | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Idris, T. H. W. | O'Doherty, Philip |
| Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Isaacs, Rufus Daniel | O'Grady, J. |
| Cowan, W. H. | Jacoby, James Alfred | O'Kelly, James(Roscommon,N |
| Cox, Harold | Jardine, Sir J. | O'Malley, William |
| Crombie, John William | Jenkins, J. | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Crossley, William J. | Johnson, John (Gateshead) | Paul, Herbert |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea | Paulton, James Mellor |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek) |
| Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan) | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) |
| Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Jowett, F. W. | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Delany, William | Joyce, Michael | Price, Robert John (Norfolk, E.) |
| Rainy, A. Rolland | Seely, Major J. B. | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose |
| Raphael, Herbert H. | Shackleton, David James | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) |
| Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro' | Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick, B.) | Walton, Sir John L.(Leeds, S.) |
| Redmond, John E.(Waterford) | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent |
| Rees, J. D. | Snowden, P. | Ward, W.Dudley (S'thampton) |
| Rendall, Athelstan | Soares, Ernest J. | Wardle, George J. |
| Renton, Major Leslie | Spicer, Sir Albert | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Richards, Thomas(W.Monm'th | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh. | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Richards, T. F (Wolverh'mpt'n | Steadman, W. C. | Weir, James Galloway |
| Richardson, A. | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | Whitbread, Howard |
| Rickett, J. Compton | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | White, George (Norfolk) |
| Ridsdale, E. A. | Stuart, James (Sunderland) | White J.D. (Dumbartonshire) |
| Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Sullivan, Donal | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Robertson, Rt.Hn. E.(Dundee) | Summerbell, T. | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Robertson,SirG.Scott(Bradf'rd | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Robinson, S. | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Williamson, A. |
| Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Thomas, Sir A.(Glamorgan,E.) | Wilson, Hn. C. H.W. (Hull,W.) |
| Rose, Charles Day | Thomas,David Alfred(Merthyr) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Rowlands, J. | Thomasson, Franklin | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
| Runciman, Walter | Thorne, William | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips | |
| Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland) | Verney, F. W. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease. |
| Scott, A.H. (Ashton-und.-Lyne | Vivian, Henry | |
| Seddon, J. | Wadsworth, J. |