HC Deb 24 May 1906 vol 157 cc1504-12

1. "That a sum, not exceeding £31,800, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1907, for Houses of Parliament Buildings."

Resolution read a second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said that when this Vote was in Committee he pointed out that the mortality amongst Members of the House of Commons averaged about twelve per annum, which meant that about one every month was stricken down. Not long ago it was necessary to take one of their number across to the hospital. Every hon. Member who had had any experience of other Parliaments would agree that this Chamber was in many respects capable of being vastly improved. The House would not seat all its Members, and during a memorable debate a fortnight ago some fourteen or fifteen Members were unable to obtain even standing accommodation in the House, and even then some 17 or 18 per cent, of the Members were absent. If the Members were more comfortably provided for they would be able to do their business with a great deal more satisfaction. This was the only Parliament which had not a desk in front of each Member, and a convenient place to sit which the Member might call his own. The other day he was put to great inconvenience because the only place he could take some friends who had come to see him on business connected with his constituency was a smoking room upstairs which it was impossible for anybody to stop in long on account of the amount of smoke in it. Consequently they were obliged to sit for an hour and a half in a draughty corridor. He was told that two conference rooms were set aside for the use of Members and their friends, but as a matter of fact both of them were engaged at the time, and they were miserably inadequate for the purpose. There were many passages in the House which were duplicated, and surely some alteration could be made so as to provide more reasonable accommodation for Members.

MR. T. L. CORBETT

said the House should carefully consider these Estimates in detail. The Party opposite was returned as a Party of retrenchment and reform and this was the first opportunity the Liberal Party or the Labour Party had had for fulfilling their pledges. But they—the Liberal, Labour, and Nationalist Parties—had adopted a conspiracy of silence and absolutely refused to attempt any kind of analysis of the Estimates. He wished Members to protest against these bloated Estimates, against which the Liberal Party had often spoken with burning eloquence from the public platform. The Estimates were either a mere farce or sham which ought to be voted in one solid block of millions at a time, or else the House should not laugh and sneer at any Member who rose to try to deal with them. If all the other sections of the House refused to analyse these Estimates and thus falsified the pledges they gave on public platforms, he was not prepared to go on fighting and struggling to criticise them. He left the responsibility to the Liberal and Labour Members. He washed his hands of any share in that deliberate conspiracy to squander millions of money at a single sitting without analysing the Votes.

MR. THEODORE TAYLOR (Lancashire, Radcliffe)

called attention to the bad ventilation of the Committee Rooms of the House, remarking that Members felt the atmosphere of those rooms to be very injurious. He did not know whether he should suggest it after what had occurred in the ladies' gallery recently, but he thought that so long as the ladies' gallery was kept open they might return good for evil and do the ladies the courtesy of having an annunciator in the gallery to let the occupants know who was speaking in the House. They all had lady friends and he thought they would appreciate this concession. Sometimes eminent men were not known by sight to all the ladies, and when a Member got up it caused some whispering and talking behind the grille. It would be to the interests of the Members themselves if an annunciator was provided.

THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (Mr. HARCOURT, Lancashire Rossendale)

said he did not suppose that the hon. Member for the West Derby Division of Liverpool would expect him, after an interval of only four days, to repeat all the answers to the questions he had put. When the Vote was in Committee he dealt with all the matters which the hon. Member had now brought before the House apparently to the satisfaction of other hon. Members if not to the satisfaction of the hon. Member. What was required was a chamber reasonably suitable for the business they had to transact. There could be no better example than the state of the benches at present that this chamber provided ample accommodation for the purpose to which it was devoted when they were conducting really serious business. [An HON. MEMBER: Especially on the Opposition side.] The hon. Member had drawn attention to duplicate passages in the House. He was not himself familiar with them, but if the hon. Member during the recess would conduct him through them, he would consider what steps could be taken to provide him with accommodation in them. The hon. Member for North Down took a different line, because he rather desired that the Government should exercise retrenchment on the Houses of Parliament Vote which would deprive his colleague the Member for the West Derby Division of the accommodation he wanted and other hon. Members of the indulgences for which they constantly pleaded. He had given instructions that something should be done for the better ventilation of the telephone room. Reference had been made to the ventilation of the Committee, rooms. That had always been a great problem, for it was extremely difficult to provide for the rapidly varying conditions of those rooms. Exhaust fans had been provided in most of the windows. He would consider during the autumn recess whether anything more could be done to improve the ventilation of those rooms. The hon. Member for the Radcliffe Division of Lancashire had suggested that an annunciator should be placed in the ladies' gallery. He was afraid he could not promise to carry out the suggestion. Annunciators were noisy and expensive. They reminded him of what a lady once said, that everything she wanted in life was either unwholesome, expensive, or wrong. Annunciators cost £60 each to install and £40 per year to run. He did not think that the noisy clicking of an annunciator in the gallery would add either to the comfort of the Members of the House or the amenities of those auditors whom they were always glad to welcome.

MR. FLAVIN

asked whether, for the convenience of hon. Members who had to meet friends in the outer lobby, a door which was now kept closed could not be made available in order that they might be provided with a shorter way to that lobby.

MR. HARCOURT

said that he had been instructed by the Cabinet to provide for a new method of taking divisions, and he had also been instructed to make statement to the House on Wednesday next. The new system of taking divisions would come into operation immediately after the Whitsuntide recess. In this statement he would be able to say something about the opening of the doors of the division lobbies to give more easy egress to the outer corridors.

Question put, and agreed to.

2. "That a sum, not exceeding £48,000, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1907, for Expenditure in respect of Diplomatic and Consular Buildings, and for the maintenance of certain Cemetries Abroad."

Resolution read a second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said the House should get an explanation from the Government why there was an increase this year of £13,700, or 15 per cent., on this Vote.

MR. HARCOURT

said that he had given an answer to that question within the last four days.

Question put, and agreed to.

3. "That a sum, not exceeding £8,400, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1907, for Expenditure in respect of Osborne."

Resolution read a second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said that there was an increase of £2,000 on this Vote compared with last year. He thought the House should be given some additional information as to the reason for this increase. There was also reason to complain of the manner in which Votes were put down on the Paper.

MR. HARCOURT

said that he had given an elaborate explanation of the excess in this Vote in Committee. It was caused by a re-arrangement of the electric light installation by which a saving of £150 a year would be made in the future. Some of the increase was also due to drainage improvements; and to the satisfactory or, in one sense, unsatisfactory increase in the number of patients at Osborne. The hon. Member had complained as to the order in which the Votes had been put down in the Paper; but that was an ill reward for his endeavouring to consult the convenience of hon. Members opposite. If the method of criticism pursued by the hon. Member was to be generally followed he would revert to the ordinary course of procedure.

Question put, and agreed to.

4. "That a sum, not exceeding £426,000, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 3lst day of March, 1907, for the Customs, Inland Revenue, Post Office, and Post Office Telegraph Buildings in Great Britain, and certain Post Offices abroad, including Furniture, Fuel, and sundry Miscellaneous Services."

Resolution read a second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said he certainly understood that this Vote was not to be taken that night. At any-rate he knew that his hon. friend the Member for one of the divisions of Liverpool had given notice of a reduction of this Vote, and he had been told that there was an understanding that it was not to come on that night.

MR. HARCOURT

No, no.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said he was not competent to explain to the House the points which his hon. friend was going to bring up; but he knew that in Liverpool the Custom House, the Post Office and the Harbour Office at one time were all under the same roof. The Harbour Office had recently been moved, and efforts had been made to induce the Treasury to build a new Custom House in place of the present antiquated building.

MR. HARCOURT

said that the hon. Member referred to had been in communication with him and was satisfied with the negotiations which were in progress. The hon. Member for the Derby Division was doing a disservice to his colleague and to the city he represented by opening this matter that night.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said that they were grateful that the Treasury were in communication with the authorities in Liverpool in connection with this matter. He thought it would be generally agreed that Liverpool was entitled to a decent custom house.

MR. WEIR

said he wished to call attention to the very urgent need there was for a new post office at Stornoway. It was arranged three years ago that a new building should be provided as the present one was in a most insanitary state, and he appealed to the right hon. Gentleman to look into this matter.

MR. HARCOURT

said he had been in communication with the Treasury on the subject, and had had the plans of the new building before him. But he thought that they were not sufficiently Scottish in design, and he had slightly altered them to suit the local colour of the town with which he might say he was as well acquainted as the hon. Member. He hoped that in conjunction with the hon. Member, the Department would be able to do justice to Stornoway.

Question put, and agreed to.

5. "That a sum, not exceeding £61,500, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1907, for the Royal Parks and Pleasure Gardens."

6. "That a sum, not exceeding £46,000, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1907, for Expenditure in respect of Royal Palaces."

7. "That a sum, not exceeding £317,000, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1907, in respect of sundry Public Buildings in Great Britain, not provided for on other Votes."

Resolutions agreed to.

Motion made, and Question, "That this House do now adjourn"—(Mr. Joseph Pease)—put, and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at Ten o'clock.